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Lajja = Modesty = Women ?? (Page 43)

The-Voice IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 11:21am | IP Logged
Originally posted by kaushikbasu

I had written in one of the pages a long time back, a lot of time it is meant what is said I very strongly disagree to such sexist statements. I even object to the statement per say as well. Just an example a person is not man enough to face a situation or Aurton ki tarah chugli karta hai etc.


True. But bro, our society has always been like that. We can't help it. To be compared to men is considered superior, and to be compared to a woman; demeaning. No idea where this BS emerged from in our culture. Ouch

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 11:27am | IP Logged

I think men and women both are often unfair to their own gender.

 

Many women target other women for being unladylike, not dressing and acting like a proper woman, being too crude for a woman etc.

 

Similarly many men target other men for being unmanly, not dressing and acting like a proper man, being too soft for a man etc.


Both behaviors are unfair and should be discouraged.

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 11:33am | IP Logged
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 11:57am | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Xaffron-

True. But bro, our society has always been like that. We can't help it. To be compared to men is considered superior, and to be compared to a woman; demeaning. No idea where this BS emerged from in our culture. Ouch
Not only in our society but this is evident accross different cultures in the World. There are historical and evolutionary reasons behind that but we are not in those times when these statements used to be true. We should come out of the shackles and prejudices.

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
HAVEN'T read many posts after my last post here -- /  but FOR me -- I don't see any valid reason to challenge views of TOPICMAKER @ -------The THREAD is simply about equal rights for men-women when it comes to modesty ---or any other human trait @ --  IT is a  no brainer /   -

If LAJJA ( no matter what the definition is)  is applicable to WOMEN ---then it should be applicable to MALES too @ / --

NOW because of absence of strong law and order in some parts of the WORLD ---women do not get to enjoy the freedom like men do -- but that behavior should be discouraged @       LIKE someone said, parents care of 'LAJJA' for girls  mainly in delhi area due to high number of rape cases etc ---that is understandable  --but still by supporting that argument, we are again indirectly making life for women more MISERABLE - / 

STATEMENTS like ' lajja for only girls' were originated years ago based on cultural values back then but they do not stand true in today's world. We are evolved beings and we need to encourage 'equal rights' for every living being --/

even THE  generalizations like ' blondes are dumb'  are not that OLD and are prevalent in society ----- IT will take years for people to stop making jokes on blondes.  SO imagine how long will it take to erase old generalization like ' lajja for women' . It won't unless we make a conscious effort to change mindsets /


At the same time -- I don't see any need for labeling SIDHU as a MCP --based on his single comment. YES what he said must be condemned but I will still give him a benefit doubt considering he has not done anything in his stay of 5 weeks ----that would indicate that he does not like gender equality-- /

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 12:42pm | IP Logged
Well it is not correct to comment without reading 48 pages but still can not resist.

To me gender equality means - equal right for men and women. equal right to social security, job, pay, voting, marriage, right to divorce, right to work - whatever. Gender equity in these areas must be achieved and anyone questioning this must be condemned.

However, I have seen (and see everyday) enough number of feminists who drag the definition of gender equity too far to prove men = women. They are not - they are created biologically different and they will always be different. There is no superior or inferior here - just that men and women will always remain biologically different and hence emotional behaviour would be different and hence the expectation of the society will be different. After all it is hormones that control our reactions and they are not same in men and women.

Going by that if society thinks a woman is generally more shy than a man and spells out that - protesting against that is a feminist outburst to me. However, if a woman is disadvantaged just because she is not feeling shy, that must be condemned again because her right of equality should never be compromised.

In this particular instance, I do not think Sidhu ever meant to look down to Sapna. He just mentioned Sapna's behaviour does not match with the typical behaviour of majority of women and there is nothing wrong in expressing that. If he would have said Sapna is a disgrace to human kind because she is not shy, she should be thrown out of house because she is not shy or her face should be blackened because she is not shy etc. etc. - definitely condemn him all out!!

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:05pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

@Cruiser

 

I have to say I am surprised and actually quite disappointed that you stooped low into questioning "likes" and the age old "women have it in for men" argument. Of all the people on IF, I really didn't expect this from you. I used to think you were amidst the mature and reasonable guys.

 

Now I have not been in other threads, but in this specific thread I do have some problems with your line of reasoning. I definitely don't think you are saying the same thing as I did. There is a  difference between "men have expectations too, deal with it" and "men have expectations too, and some of those are unfair as well". Now perhaps you don't mean to frame it as "deal with it" but it comes across that way. You also seem to be focusing on the "words" saying you have been called "asheel" as well. But you appear to miss the point that the point is not about Sapna being called "asheel" or lacking "lajja". The point is that her criticism was framed around her being a woman.

 

That being said I do agree that sometimes women get a bit  too passionate and carried away in gender equality debates. It is not that we are biased against men, dislike men or want some sort of vengeance. It is difficult being a woman, especially an Indian (desi) woman. There are a lot of frustrations, desperations and hurt emotions. I won't go into details. But the point is, you don't have to agree with us or our perspectives, but a little bit of empathy can go a very long way. And yes, perhaps we can do more to try and understand the male point of view. But cribbing and complaining really is not the way. Unless you are conspiring to get back at women for all the time we crib and whine and nag. Tongue

 

Yes, the last sentence was a gender stereotype against women. LOL



R_T_H ji...may be it is my inability to express myself clearly, may be you got it a bit wrong, whatever it is,  its not a very comfortable situation when one means well and still gets misunderstood!

OK-------I am focusing on 'words' because 'words' is what it all breaks down to here! Smile

You say "The point is that her criticism was framed around her being a woman"...I say had any male member in house behaved as crudely and ill mannerly as Sapna did (for records, no one did), I can easily visualize him getting a long winded sermon that would include words like SANKAAR, MARYADA, HUDD (limits), IZZAT-BEIZZATI, AADAR-NIRAADAR, ASHLEELTA-FOOHADTA... And NO ONE would have paid even any attention except a few innocent protest posts like, "Ufff, SIdhu kitna bolta hai...'Shocked

As I said in my another post, In North Indian belt, in households its very common to hear stuff like,"Naak kata di tune kambakht,...kya din dikhaya haii tune beta / beti, ------Sharm aani chaahiye tujhe Naalayak, ------LOL

If one wants to split hair, each phrase or colorful reprimand can be  interpreted as some kind of discrimination against some gender / class / society! ...If I was a Pakistani, I would see red to insulting phrases like "1971 mein Pakistan dum daba ke bhaag gaya", protesting it boils down to Indian hatred of my country...! As Indians, we merely dismiss it as a colorful phrase...One's take on an expression depends on which side of fence one is sitting!Smile

* As for LIKES...its just my take on how most discussions by and large fare in IF! This thread atleast has readable content! There are so many threads where a poster would make plain abusive or derogatory post against a contestant and a glance at his / her ID is enough to tell you, without even scrolling down, more or less who all will LIKE that post.

Why to take any one else's example? At times I make plain nonsensical posts in LIVE FEED thread and instinctively I know who will LIKE that silliness. That way this thread is no exception too...No big deal!



Edited by cruiser51 - 13 November 2012 at 9:11pm

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:09pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by akash08



To me gender equality means - equal right for men and women. equal right to social security, job, pay, voting, marriage, right to divorce, right to work - whatever. Gender equity in these areas must be achieved and anyone questioning this must be condemned.

However, I have seen (and see everyday) enough number of feminists who drag the definition of gender equity too far to prove men = women. They are not - they are created biologically different and they will always be different. There is no superior or inferior here - just that men and women will always remain biologically different and hence emotional behaviour would be different and hence the expectation of the society will be different. After all it is hormones that control our reactions and they are not same in men and women.

Going by that if society thinks a woman is generally more shy than a man and spells out that - protesting against that is a feminist outburst to me. However, if a woman is disadvantaged just because she is not feeling shy, that must be condemned again because her right of equality should never be compromised.

In this particular instance, I do not think Sidhu ever meant to look down to Sapna. He just mentioned Sapna's behaviour does not match with the typical behaviour of majority of women and there is nothing wrong in expressing that.

If he would have said Sapna is a disgrace to human kind because she is not shy, she should be thrown out of house because she is not shy or her face should be blackened because she is not shy etc. etc. - definitely condemn him all out!!


Perfectly said!

Agree with each and every point!
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