Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che!

India-Forums

   
Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che!
Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che!

Lajja = Modesty = Women ?? (Page 36)

-Chandramukhi- IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 21 October 2004
Posts: 12524

Posted: 11 November 2012 at 6:21pm | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

ChillHum

Sarkar Goldie
Sarkar
Sarkar

Joined: 22 December 2005
Posts: 1395

Posted: 11 November 2012 at 6:42pm | IP Logged
Diwali time and this Post still cracking up ,with so many Intelligent and sensible thought poured in.
Wish This Enlightens some Sterotypes Heart as well .Waiting for a changed world.
 
Great Going Chandramukhi .
Clap

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

0o0o0o0o0o-Chandramukhi-

-Chandramukhi- IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 21 October 2004
Posts: 12524

Posted: 11 November 2012 at 6:54pm | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

ChillHumznursingh

-Cruiser- IF-Sizzlerz
-Cruiser-
-Cruiser-

Joined: 23 November 2011
Posts: 21614

Posted: 12 November 2012 at 2:40am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by cruiser51


Had Niketan did bad-tameezi of Sapna kind, Sidhu might have said SANSKAAR hi Purush ki asli viraasat hain, Foohadta aur ashleelta Mardangi pe dhabba lagaate hain!Smile



The day a man is lectured for lack of "sanskaar" and told that "asheelta" is a "dhabba" on "mardangi". I'll print this post and eat it.


Why get stuck to specific words?

SO MANY TIMES...and at times to the point of irritation... I have been drilled the importance of values, politeness, humbleness...(SANSKAAR) by parents...and I am sure all Male members, (since females seem to be the aggrieved party on this thread, so specifically mentioning male members...Smile), here would surely have got scolded on numerous occasions for falling short of SANSKAAR (VALUES) benchmark of parents!


And yeah, may be not many others would have, but I have had the dubious distinction of being labelled an ashleel too once!Blushing

Believe it or not one kid brought a Playboy mag to class, (IXth) and all boys were feasting on the sights eyes bulged out. Nearest available school bag happened to be mine where it got shoved into at the sound of approaching teacher and everyone forgot about it!

As mom pulled out the soiled lunch box out of bag in evening, all hell broke loose. I was pulled to the other room, (so that sisters won't have a clue of my horrible gunaah), two slaps on cheek and mom's,"Ye sab ke liye jaate ho school? Itni Ashleelta? Ashleel kitaabein padhte ho, hain? Chhee! Chhee-- Chataak...(the 3rd one)"!Cry

....Ashleelta, Lajja, Sankaar, Laanat, Dhabba kind of colorful expressions, even though might sound extinct and outdated to South-West-East Indians + overseas Indians------when it comes to, North and Central India (MP), these are much more prevalent in day to day vocabulary then many  seem to imagine here!Tongue

 



Edited by cruiser51 - 12 November 2012 at 3:36am
return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
return_to_hades
return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 23804

Posted: 12 November 2012 at 7:49am | IP Logged

@Cruiser

 

I'm not stuck on specific words. For some reason you chose to focus on the specific words of my post rather than the overall message, even though Chandramukhi explained it above.

 

Every Indian child is drilled about culture, tradition and behavioral expectations. Of course lajja, asheelta, sanskaar are just words. Every parent drills them in their own language. In Bombay, amidst the convent school crowd a large proportion of the chiding and discipline is in English. The point really is not about the words used. The point is that boys are merely disciplined. You were yelled at, slapped and chided for possessing a playboy. But you were probably never told that it was a disgrace to your manhood, that it made you less of a man. At worst men are told they are embarrassing the family. The situation is very different for girls. When girls make such mistakes, the tone of the discipline is very different. Not only is she guilty of breaking cultural expectations – she has insulted her womanhood, somehow her mistakes make her less respected as a woman, she is threatened that no one would want to marry her.

 

In high school during my hockey playing days we took a shortcut to practice. We reached the building complex at the back gate rather than front. It was locked. Instead of walking all around, we decided to climb over it. One of the professors saw us and called all the girls aside and lectured us – that this was ungraceful and shameless of us, that girls should behave delicate and ladylike, that if it wasn't enough we played hockey we had to run about climbing gates and walls like boys. The boys who had done the same thing didn't hear a word. After all it is expected that boys will be boys and get into scrapes.

 

So the point of my post was not words, but the fact that there are double standards for men and women. Even though there are some common expectations, the implementation for girls can be radically different. And the educated people in society who know better have a responsibility to change this inequality in society.

 

PS: This is me being a serious geek, but some topics are serious, some topics are humorous. I'm not averse to humor. But I think when responding to a serious topic, it is better to adapt a serious tone and flow. You can always end with a joke or something. When you don't adapt the tone and flow to the topic at hand it becomes very difficult for a lot of readers to understand intent and meaning. Especially a lot of things come off as mocking, sarcastic or display an air of not caring and posting for the heck off it. But then again it could be only me who has these difficulties.

The following 5 member(s) liked the above post:

*king*cs-070o0o0o0o0o-Cruiser--Chandramukhi-

-Cruiser- IF-Sizzlerz
-Cruiser-
-Cruiser-

Joined: 23 November 2011
Posts: 21614

Posted: 12 November 2012 at 8:37am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

@Cruiser

 

I'm not stuck on specific words. For some reason you chose to focus on the specific words of my post rather than the overall message, even though Chandramukhi explained it above.

 

Every Indian child is drilled about culture, tradition and behavioral expectations. Of course lajja, asheelta, sanskaar are just words. Every parent drills them in their own language. In Bombay, amidst the convent school crowd a large proportion of the chiding and discipline is in English. The point really is not about the words used. The point is that boys are merely disciplined. You were yelled at, slapped and chided for possessing a playboy. But you were probably never told that it was a disgrace to your manhood, that it made you less of a man. At worst men are told they are embarrassing the family. The situation is very different for girls. When girls make such mistakes, the tone of the discipline is very different. Not only is she guilty of breaking cultural expectations ' she has insulted her womanhood, somehow her mistakes make her less respected as a woman, she is threatened that no one would want to marry her.

 

In high school during my hockey playing days we took a shortcut to practice. We reached the building complex at the back gate rather than front. It was locked. Instead of walking all around, we decided to climb over it. One of the professors saw us and called all the girls aside and lectured us ' that this was ungraceful and shameless of us, that girls should behave delicate and ladylike, that if it wasn't enough we played hockey we had to run about climbing gates and walls like boys. The boys who had done the same thing didn't hear a word. After all it is expected that boys will be boys and get into scrapes.

 

So the point of my post was not words, but the fact that there are double standards for men and women. Even though there are some common expectations, the implementation for girls can be radically different. And the educated people in society who know better have a responsibility to change this inequality in society.

 

PS: This is me being a serious geek, but some topics are serious, some topics are humorous. I'm not averse to humor. But I think when responding to a serious topic, it is better to adapt a serious tone and flow. You can always end with a joke or something. When you don't adapt the tone and flow to the topic at hand it becomes very difficult for a lot of readers to understand intent and meaning. Especially a lot of things come off as mocking, sarcastic or display an air of not caring and posting for the heck off it. But then again it could be only me who has these difficulties.



Thanks for your extremely lucid response R_T_H!

On examples presented by you and over all post of you, obviously I can't disagree with you on almost anything!

However--------------Whether one likes it or not, physiologically the build and gender difference ensures, some kind of difference would always be there!

Having an Army officer as father, I had the privilege of getting schooled in various parts of India and I experienced cultures and way of life of different parts of India.

As luck would have it, he got posted at Delhi, when I had to do my Xith-XIIth while sis was doing graduation! I was preparing for my Engineering and at the same time some kind of a sportsman! So schedule used to be nets in evening at National Stadium Delhi (Cricket), a rush to Engineering Prep Training Center and be back at home by around 9.30 PM! While parents would caution me to come home straight and not roam around with friends, it pretty much ended there!

Sister, on the contrary was a different case. Delhi, unfairly so I believe, is called rape capital of India (my own conclusion is because most cases get reported in Delhi unlike smaller towns and villages of India, but thats a different story and topic)...So, Sister- till she came from her evening MBA prep classes, parents would be on tenterhooks!

My problem is superficial and shallow way of looking at things.

The above scenario, if I merely post as I was allowed to come back by 21.30 Hrs whereas Sis had to be back by home by 7.30 and being in touch with parents all the time...going by some of the responses here it would be dissected as HAWWW...GENDER DISCRIMINATION...I can assure you it isn't!

In a city like Delhi, in India and for God's sake I have studied and lived in UK for years...EVEN in UK, if indeed there are Parents who tell their daughter do what you like, come back when you want and we just give a damn, they are plain inhuman as well as stupid I would say!

And in general, again whether one likes it or not, stakes are way too high when it comes to  a girl in family! Are all parents professional counselors or what? NO! They are not! And so because MANY PARENTS  can not be expected to be absoutely ideal when it comes to raising their kids, providing them moral counseling at the same time comfort of being great friends to them so much so that kids would confide in them for everything...MANY automatically land on a path and situation where all they can do is tell their daughter/s to be cautious, urge them not to do any mistake that would ruin their lives / bring dishonour to the family etc. etc. ...In Indian context I find it absolutely understandable!

If every one's parents could be as seem to be parents of all posters here, I would live in an ideal world where sons and daughters are treated absolutely equally on every aspect of life! Unfortunately, that clearly not being the case, society in general will take care of girls and boys a bit differently!








Edited by cruiser51 - 12 November 2012 at 8:41am

The following 3 member(s) liked the above post:

guess_wh0znursingh0o0o0o0o0o

-Cruiser- IF-Sizzlerz
-Cruiser-
-Cruiser-

Joined: 23 November 2011
Posts: 21614

Posted: 12 November 2012 at 8:55am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ranjanruna

@Cruiser how u define north south east west:-) In fact i found North is a closed society. U will get lot of honour killing in North side U know alway in those killing was by the side of the woman why her parent kill her? boz that lajyaheen womao bring lajya to the family as she marry other caste. The punishment u got that was bcoz ladka bigad na jai. what i saw in society man think it is cool even abuse. u r speaking about Delhi in fact in delhi the word BC used in galis in frequent way no where used and u know if u study while they abuse they think it boost manhood. Study ur society u can understand what is lajjya decided for woman. just visit some interior of haryana woman wear pallu or else lajya, even few village decided if woman have mobile that is called lajya, forget about anything when there is a rape many says woman wear asleel cloth lajyaheen woman instigating other to rape. If we study the real society u will get the real world or else we will think we will get the meaning of asleela and lajja by watcing some megazine and got some punishment.


My exposure and understanding of Indian society is rich enough for me to understand and comment on each of the issues raised by you! 6-7 years in Delhi, playing tournaments non stop in Delhi-Punjab and Haryana is good enough period for any intelligent person to grasp what exactly is this belt all about!Smile

Yes, the term LAJJA is a pretty vast one! While for an Old Delhi Muslim his 18 year old daughter would be a BE-HAYA who has done a sacrilege by not going out in BURKA (Hizaab), for an Upper Middle Class chap in Greater Kailash Delhi it could be his kids (daughter or son) annswering back rudely!

Any way...whats the point in going in loops?

Howsoever much one may protest, strictly speaking equality in every way can not be ensured! Even in UK, one of my classmate (a lovely Pakistani girl) got molested while returning from a pub late night in Bristol!...Are stakes same? In her position I might have been mugged at the most! She could bloody well have spent months in hospital, undergoing an abortion as well!...Its all very well to merely scream Equality-Equality...I am not sure its applicable in many spheres, places and areas!



Edited by cruiser51 - 12 November 2012 at 9:10am
return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
return_to_hades
return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 23804

Posted: 12 November 2012 at 9:19am | IP Logged

@Cruiser

 

Now we are delving into another issue of inequality in society. Up until now we were not (at least I wasn't) discussing feminine safety, chastity and purity. It was more of cultural expectations and discipline.

 

Boys who are loud, disrespectful, boisterous, argumentative and rude are chided that such behavior is inappropriate. Girls who do similar things are chided for being unladylike or losing feminine grace and dignity. The point so far was that these qualities like politeness & modesty are equally important to both genders, hence the discipline in such qualities should not be lopsided.

 

The freedom for women to dress as they please, hang out when and where they please is a different issue. Parents and relatives put restrictions on women because they care a lot and are worried about the risks. And yes, in many parts of Indi and the world, women have more risks. I'll agree with that wholeheartedly. But at the same time I feel the problem is a society that teaches "Don't get raped/molested" rather than "Do not rape/molest". The social outlook should not be lock the girl away so she is safe, but rather let us invest time, money and resources to make it safe for the girl and punish all those who put her at risk. If a man is mugged he isn't told "he had it coming" or "he was asking for it" or "he should know better than to go out at night". Similarly if a girl is raped/molested she should not be told such things. She should be told "it is not your fault" and "we will find and punish who did this to you" and "we are with you". After all the stigma of rape/molestation is not in the woman nor is it in the criminal act – but how society perceives it.

 

Our world will never be ideal. It will be full of risks. There will be rapes, murders, muggings, hit and runs, acts of terrors. We cannot change that. What we can change is how we perceive the act and condemn the criminal not the victim.

 

That being said the social stigma of rape/molestation often is worse for men. Women are perceived weak and vulnerable so she receives some sort of sympathy and support as a victim. Men who get raped/molested most of the time never speak up because it is so un-macho, so weak to be a victim that admitting to it would lead to loss of their manhood and masculinity in society. Another reason why gender stereotypes and roles in society must be broken. It is not just for women, but for the benefit of everyone in society as a whole.

The following 4 member(s) liked the above post:

cs-070o0o0o0o0o-Cruiser--Chandramukhi-

Go to top

Forum Quick Jump

Forum Category / Channels
Forums

Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che! Topic Index

  • Please login to check your Last 10 Topics posted

Check these Celebrity also

Disclaimer: All Logos and Pictures of various Channels, Shows, Artistes, Media Houses, Companies, Brands etc. belong to their respective owners, and are used to merely visually identify the Channels, Shows, Companies, Brands, etc. to the viewer. Incase of any issue please contact the webmaster.

Popular Channels :
Star Plus | Zee TV | Sony TV | Colors TV | SAB TV | Life OK

Quick Links :
Top 100 TV Celebrities | Top 100 Bollywood Celebs | About Us | Contact Us | Advertise | Forum Index