Lajja = Modesty = Women ?? - Page 25

Originally posted by: -Chandramukhi-

I can see where you were headed with Dexy, so I will put in my 2 cents.

Your post is basically saying that such stereotypes exist and even we can't get out of it. I agree and even we might get tangled with such stereotypes. But that doesn't mean we can't question it or we can't bring in the change.

Your example included boys = players and girls = wh**e for sleeping around. This might happen time to time with many of us. But that doesn't mean it is the right way to look at it, now does it. When we come across something we don't agree with, wouldn't we try and bring in the change to accommodate our views.

And Aurat  = Lajja is demeaning especially when it is used in the context of criticizing a girl for being loud or potty mouth. I believe criticism can be done without having to rely on gender. Wrongs actions are worth condemning whether it is a girl or a guy and it shouldn't be done for the sake of encouraging the perception of a woman in any society. This is the general picture of a society that girls shouldn't rely on shouting or foul language because they should be modest while guys do not get looked down on when they get aggressive or rely on foul language. Again there are exceptions. but this is the general idea. And that is objection I have, why should a girl behave the way society wants her to. Let the girl decide for herself what is right or wrong and how she wants to act.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I don't agree with it and I don't disagree with it. What I do disagree with is calling it regressive thinking. I don't believe its thinking, per say, that can be changed. I believe its our natural instincts, our genetic makeup, our primitive ways. The man was the protector, the hunter, the food provider and has always been protective about his wife/daughters etc.
I'm all for woman equality but its also true that men and women are different in so many ways from our outer appearances all the way down to the XY chromosomes.
Let a man be strong, let a woman be beautiful...they're only compliments, just like lajja, why take offense?

Originally posted by: chochokamurabba

</div> very true   , n i think   siddu ko bhi benefit of dought dena chaahiye same like sapna , she also said   almost same thing aboout women , her " nanga naach " statment    was so wrong      but usey   spare kiya gya coz she is women   if same thing   kaashif bol deta   then i think people reaction   bahot diffrent hota
<div>

   sapna har cheez mai gendercard use karti hai    so ye bilkul correct   way tha siddu ka same gender card use karkey    usey   batana that she was wrong

when she do vulgre ishara then its ok for her   ( jo ki girls ko pasand nhi aaya ) but vhi koi boy asa koi ishara kar dey   in same   game sprit    then vnha sapna for sure gender card le ke aayegi 😆

Absolutely Nice points! Sapna uses gender card a lot, all in adv!
Haan kashif yaa rajiv karte tho saab ladkhiya rai ka pahad kardete ab tak
Sapna ko abi tak samaj mai ahi aaya woh kitna galta behave kari thi, no apology nor anything
Aur oh vulgar ishare n batamizi is nothing but ashleelata
Muhje bohut bura laga the way she spoke to Sidhuji publicly, i dont like vulgar outburst ppl!
Confidence is not in showingoff loud, it speaks for itself n way sapna does is cause of low self-esteem!

Originally posted by: guess_wh0

That's exactly what I'm saying. I don't agree with it and I don't disagree with it. What I do disagree with is calling it regressive thinking. I don't believe its thinking, per say, that can be changed. I believe its our natural instincts, our genetic makeup, our primitive ways. The man was the protector, the hunter, the food provider and has always been protective about his wife/daughters etc.
I'm all for woman equality but its also true that men and women are different in so many ways from our outer appearances all the way down to the XY chromosomes.
Let a man be strong, let a woman be beautiful...they're only compliments, just like lajja, why take offense?

Physical inequality will always be there and no one can run away with it. I do not want to bring in Siddhu ji since you are his fan and I do not any biased discussion. But even if it was anyone else trying to use that line to criticize Sapna, I would have objected.

Use of words like Lajja depends on how they are used. In BB house, he used it to make a point that Sapna shouldn't be loud or rely on using swear words. Again it's the issue of how a woman should be perceived, someone who isn't loud or rolling with a set of foul words. That is the issue I have. Why should anyone be suppressed because he or she doesn't fit in a perception of society and thus criticized for it. And I even include men in it. Xaffron had made a point that man = cry = not macho or not man enough, even this is a stereotype. I for one do not like such stereotypes that hinder a human from showing his or her emotions or actions.

In terms of Aurat = Lajja, this statement has been used many times in the media. When they are used repetitively people try and accommodate their behavior accordingly to fit in the perception laid out by the society in the fear of being rejected if not followed. Such statements are used on daughters or girls to shape their behavior and I have seen it happen personally. Again nothing wrong with being modest or polite. But because of such stereotyped image, there are girls who do know how to or when to raise their voice against something they do not agree with. Thus domestic violence has been inflated and not talked about since women are taught to be modest and not raise their voice. I might be extrapolating this, but I can definitely say there is some connection here. When stereotypes start to suppress one's behavior or make people look down on others who do not fit societal picturization of man or woman, then such stereotypes should be discarded or modified. That is how I see this issue or statement.

Originally posted by: ranjanruna

Lajja nari ka gehena hota hai . why it is demeaning bcoz this gehena decide and imposed by male without asking woman. It imposed in they pschy of the society . Simple a woman wear a jeans doesnot considered a lajja gehena in say metro then if she move to town chances is 50% then if she goes to interrior village it is 100 nd if it to a khap panchayat influence haryana village area it is 100% one meter pallu clad saree or else who know may be honour killing just like honour killing in intercaste marriage. Here the meaning of lajja for woman changed from place to place, conservative level of society and woman lajya consider as honour of man. Loud nd asleel behaviour is bad side of a personality but if one say lajja is biggest jewellery of woman than imagine 1 meter pallu clad woman sapna is blushing with lajja while doing hair cutting.

Ok that's going too far. I'm sure that's not what Sidhu meant. His wife is a doctor, a MLA so I'm positive that's not how the man thinks.

Isn't being modest a good quality?

Genhne are supposed to make a woman look beautiful. So then the quote, according to my understanding, would mean :

"Modesty makes a woman prettier than any piece of jewellery can"

Its just a rehash of all the inner beauty crap you hear all the time. Still don't understand, why the women are so mad? Is it because Sidhu said it?


Edited by guess_wh0 - 11 years ago

Originally posted by: guess_wh0

Ok that's going too far. I'm sure that's not what Sidhu meant. His wife is a doctor, a MLA so I'm positive that's not how the man thinks.

Isn't being modest a good quality?

Genhne are supposed to make a woman look beautiful. So then the quote, according to my understanding, would mean :

"Modesty makes a woman prettier than any piece of jewellery can"

Its just a rehash of all the inner beauty crap you hear all the time. Still don't understand, why the women are so mad? Is it because Sidhu said it?

Originally posted by: guess_wh0

Ok that's going too far. I'm sure that's not what Sidhu meant. His wife is a doctor, a MLA so I'm positive that's not how the man thinks.

Isn't being modest a good quality?

Genhne are supposed to make a woman look beautiful. So then the quote, according to my understanding, would mean :

"Modesty makes a woman prettier than any piece of jewellery can"

Its just a rehash of all the inner beauty crap you hear all the time. Still don't understand, why the women are so mad? Is it because Sidhu said it?

Originally posted by: -Chandramukhi-

Physical inequality will always be there and no one can run away with it. I do not want to bring in Siddhu ji since you are his fan and I do not any biased discussion. But even if it was anyone else trying to use that line to criticize Sapna, I would have objected.

Use of words like Lajja depends on how they are used. In BB house, he used it to make a point that Sapna shouldn't be loud or rely on using swear words. Again it's the issue of how a woman should be perceived, someone who isn't loud or rolling with a set of foul words. That is the issue I have. Why should anyone be suppressed because he or she doesn't fit in a perception of society and thus criticized for it. And I even include men in it. Xaffron had made a point that man = cry = not macho or not man enough, even this is a stereotype. I for one do not like such stereotypes that hinder a human from showing his or her emotions or actions.

In terms of Aurat = Lajja, this statement has been used many times in the media. When they are used repetitively people try and accommodate their behavior accordingly to fit in the perception laid out by the society in the fear of being rejected if not followed. Such statements are used on daughters or girls to shape their behavior and I have seen it happen personally. Again nothing wrong with being modest or polite. But because of such stereotyped image, there are girls who do know how to or when to raise their voice against something they do not agree with. Thus domestic violence has been inflated and not talked about since women are taught to be modest and not raise their voice. I might be extrapolating this, but I can definitely say there is some connection here. When stereotypes start to suppress one's behavior or make people look down on others who do not fit societal picturization of man or woman, then such stereotypes should be discarded or modified. That is how I see this issue or statement.

Like you said, he was only trying to make a point. You can't take it too literally. He made a similar quote to Kashif regarding his anger. A man who channels his anger...bla bla. That didn't mean he was stereotyping all men. His shayari, is used to make a point, as was in this case. You can't take it out of context. Sidhu is a very liberal man.

Media, society, perceptions are too broad of a topic. We can talk about that for hours. "Lajja" is a very small part, minisicule part of the mind games media plays with us. Anorexia, Bulimia, low self esteem all are issues women are suffering from thanks to the media. If you want to add "lajja" to it, you're more than welcome to. But I believe a person is responsible for his own actions. A strong personality will never bow down to anyone. It can't be suppressed.

Back to topic, its a century old saying that shouldn't be taken too literally and I promise you Sidhu did not judge Sapna on lajja, but ashilta.

I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if I'm being redundant.

Originally posted by: guess_wh0

Like you said, he was only trying to make a point. You can't take it too literally. He made a similar quote to Kashif regarding his anger. A man who channels his anger...bla bla. That didn't mean he was stereotyping all men. His shayari, is used to make a point, as was in this case. You can't take it out of context. Sidhu is a very liberal man.

Media, society, perceptions are too broad of a topic. We can talk about that for hours. "Lajja" is a very small part, minisicule part of the mind games media plays with us. Anorexia, Bulimia, low self esteem all are issues women are suffering from thanks to the media. If you want to add "lajja" to it, you're more than welcome to. But I believe a person is responsible for his own actions. A strong personality will never bow down to anyone. It can't be suppressed.

Back to topic, its a century old saying that shouldn't be taken too literally and I promise you Sidhu did not judge Sapna on lajja, but ashilta.

Why do we take a U turn and come back to Siddhu 😆😆

This isn't about Siddhu but about the old age tag women have to deal with. So I will agree to disagree with you regarding Siddhu and my interpretation of his statement.

@blue: Yes those are the issues and I am sure those are worth the discussion. But since we are dealing with Lajja here, for me it is just another issue which such stereotypical tags have brought out.

@red: You do not believe that everyone comes with strong personality. I agree with you that someone with confidence in themselves baring such strong personality will not let such tags affect her or her life. But I do not think all women are strong enough to fight society and their perception. There are many such examples of weak women and why they take forever or never to raise their voice against domestic abuse.

Edited by -Chandramukhi- - 11 years ago

Originally posted by: guess_wh0

Isn't being modest a good quality?

Yes it is

Originally posted by: guess_wh0

Genhne are supposed to make a woman look beautiful. So then the quote, according to my understanding, would mean :

"Modesty makes a woman prettier than any piece of jewellery can"

The problem is making it about women. Honesty, integrity, modesty, self respect, sincerity, respect - these are all positive qualities for any human. They make any human likable and have a more attractive personality. Siddhu's words made it seem that only women are expected to have it.

Originally posted by: guess_wh0

Its just a rehash of all the inner beauty crap you hear all the time. Still don't understand, why the women are so mad? Is it because Sidhu said it?

I didn't perceive it as a rehash of inner beauty. I perceived it as society dictating how women should behave. Traditional male dominated society expects a forced "lajja" from women, but does not expect such "lajja" from men. Traditional male society allows men to be "asheel" but still expect "lajja" in return from women.

So it was surprising to hear such an old fashioned sentiment from someone like Siddhu who is not known to subscribe to such views. It is not just about Siddhu, I have a problem with any person who makes such statements.

That being said, I am not angry or upset at Siddhu, nor do I think less of him. I think he made an honest  mistake. He should have said "modesty makes people well liked and respected" rather than "modesty is a woman's most precious ornament".