Lajja = Modesty = Women ?? - Page 24

Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by -Chandramukhi-




So discuss away do you agree or disagree with such stereotypical statement "Women's real ornament is Lajja (Modesty)"




Whoa. I missed this stuff in his speech. I just heard about the part that physical violence can be cured but you cannot heal the destruction caused by words. That's why I found his speech brilliant because I felt that Sapna had said a bit too much and it is easy to forgive but difficult to forget when someone abuses you.

I didn't know he said that women's ornament is 'lajja'. What crap. I strongly disagree. And I hate people who paint women this way. He also said, "Kyunki jis aurat mein lajja naheen----ASHLEELTA HAI" Holy Cow!! Again, I strongly disagree.

And here is why. I am a female and I am not modest all the time. On an average I curse and abuse 1-3 times per day. I abuse some of my professors (well, some of them deserve that) and sometimes life in general when things don't go my way. But, according to Siddhu, I should be ashamed of myself because women lose their respect if they are not modest. So, only men can get away with being immodest. This is not fair.

Second, I think ashleelta means obscenity but I don't think the antonym of modesty is obscenity. So, if I am not modest sometimes, then it means that I am obscene 

In short, Siddhu is in dire need of a good speech writer in order to avoid these political bloopers.😆


Posted: 11 years ago
"Lajja aurat ka gehna hota hai"

First, why is this considered demeaning?

Secondly, having that belief is not regressive in any form. The most liberal and "modern" people will have that belief too. When a guy brings his first girlfriend home, his dad gives him a high five. You know what happens when a girl brings her "bf" home? Not just the dad's but even the mom's, a woman herself, blood pressure rises through the roof.
When a woman is "active" in the dating scene, other women call her a skank, a wh**e, a s**t etc. When a man is, other guys call him a "player".

Bottom line: Women are judged differently than men. Not just in the Indian society, but all societies. Not just by men, by women themselves. Not just by conservatives but by liberal's too. Its not regressive thinking, its the only thinking. Is it right, I don't know, but it is true.



 
Edited by guess_wh0 - 11 years ago
Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by blackie



Whoa. I missed this stuff in his speech. I just heard about the part that physical violence can be cured but you cannot heal the destruction caused by words. That's why I found his speech brilliant because I felt that Sapna had said a bit too much and it is easy to forgive but difficult to forget when someone abuses you.

I didn't know he said that women's ornament is 'lajja'. What crap. I strongly disagree. And I hate people who paint women this way. He also said, "Kyunki jis aurat mein lajja naheen----ASHLEELTA HAI" Holy Cow!! Again, I strongly disagree.

And here is why. I am a female and I am not modest all the time. On an average I curse and abuse 1-3 times per day. I abuse some of my professors (well, some of them deserve that) and sometimes life in general when things don't go my way. But, according to Siddhu, I should be ashamed of myself because women lose their respect if they are not modest. So, only men can get away with being immodest. This is not fair.

Second, I think ashleelta means obscenity but I don't think the antonym of modesty is obscenity. So, if I am not modest sometimes, then it means that I am obscene 

In short, Siddhu is in dire need of a good speech writer in order to avoid these political bloopers.😆




@Bold: 🤣

And thanks for your input. Your post is one of the posts which was looking for. You see we all lose our cool and swear or abuse or even get physical at times doesn't mean we should be bogged down by such stereotyped picture of a woman. I mean even if a woman is far from someone's perception, what right does he or she have to call her out and criticize her actions for the fact that she is a woman. Criticism should be done without involving any gender induced statements. If he had simply said that modesty is something that should be embraced or encouraged, I would be happy and would even have applauded him for criticizing Sapna's wrong actions. I even gave him benefit of doubt since he belongs to a different generation. But the issue on hand is still the stereotyping of man or woman. So hope people can come outta it and reject or modify such statements which sounds as ancient as my grandparents. Even my grandparents haven't used such generalization on me 😆
Edited by -Chandramukhi- - 11 years ago
Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by guess_wh0


"Lajja aurat ka gehna hota hai"

First, why is this considered demeaning?

Secondly, having that belief is not regressive in any form. The most liberal and "modern" people will have that belief too. When a guy brings his first girlfriend home, his dad gives him a high five. You know what happens when a girl brings her "bf" home? Not just the dad's but even the mom's, a woman herself, blood pressure rises through the roof. When a woman is "active" in the dating scene, other women call her a skank, a wh**e, a s**t etc. When a man is, other guys call him a "player".

Bottom line: Women are judged differently than men. Not just in the Indian society, but all societies. Not just by men, by women themselves. Not just by conservatives but by liberal's too. Its not regressive thinking, its the only thinking. Is it right, I don't know, but it is true.

 

It is demeaning to us women because we are much more than just being the epitome of grace, modesty and what have you. This is not the 1950s anymore. Women don't have to be modest, graceful and relegated to baking cherry pie in the kitchen every afternoon. 

That in bold is a very, very broad generalization. I can speak from personal experience. My parents had no issues with me dating or introducing my ex-es to them. Other girls from my college had highly liberal parents as well. In fact, I know parents who worry if their daughter does not start dating in college. I don't even know anyone in my circle that calls other women skanks and wh**es for dating. Dating is a norm now, nobody bats an eyelid anymore.  I thought you lived in Canada so I am actually appalled that you come across such people in your area.😕
Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by Dexterkilaila



It is demeaning to us women because we are much more than just being the epitome of grace, modesty and what have you. This is not the 1950s anymore. Women don't have to be modest, graceful and relegated to baking cherry pie in the kitchen every afternoon. 

That in bold is a very, very broad generalization. I can speak from personal experience. My parents had no issues with me dating or introducing my ex-es to them. Other girls from my college had highly liberal parents as well. In fact, I know parents who worry if their daughter does not start dating in college. I don't even know anyone in my circle that calls other women skanks and wh**es for dating. Dating is a norm now, nobody bats an eyelid anymore.  I thought you lived in Canada so I am actually appalled that you come across such people in your area.😕


Not really. It has nothing to do with Canada. White people do the same. They're protective about their daughters. I said highly "Active", which was a nicer way of saying ,sleeps around, gets around the block. What do you call a girl like that Dexy? Do you call her a player and give her props, like us guys do?

Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by guess_wh0




Not really. It has nothing to do with Canada. White people do the same. They're protective about their daughters. I said highly "Active", which was a nicer way of saying ,sleeps around, gets around the block. What do you call a girl like that Dexy? Do you call her a player and give her props, like us guys do?



Just because she is active in the dating scene does not necessarily mean she is sleeping around with multiple men at the same time. Dating does not necessarily mean sex or relationships. It can just imply a simple dinner date or a night out at the club or just a first coffee meet. Well...of course if she/he is sleeping with 5 people in one night or sleeping with a different person each day, then that's another story...I'd call such a man a manwh**e and such a girl a skank. But your context wasn't that, you were talking about a girl bringing her date home. In that scenario, I don't know of any liberal person opposing it because no girl is stupid enough to bring a FWB home to meet her parents. She only brings someone she's serious with home to her parents. So I don't see why the parents' blood pressure would rise.  In fact, the parents would more likely be happy that the daughter is in a serious relationship with someone.  

Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by TSakshi


Chandra ji,
Double -standard mentality for women by most of the Indian men is an existing tragedy of life. They would like a beautiful, extrovert, charming, flirting wife of a friend, but when it comes to their own wife, sister, daughter etc they want a docile woman. Not only men, but even regressive women have a hand in this.
Men always want to dictate to women ,how they want them to be. Thou shall be modest, thou shalt be a doormat, thou shalt not argue with me, thou shalt not...so on and so forth...

For my part, I had decided earlier on in my life that I will not succumb to this, and I have not.😊

This was general, now where Siddhu ji is concerned, I would not really spend time on it, bcz he has been giving pravachans left, right and centre. He gets carried away and speaks more for the effect and drama. He already said to Salman yesterday, I regret standing by Sapna. There!!!!

Sapna is a free spirit and I am proud of her. I would love to have a friend like her.😃
I have never defended her actions in BB house, bcz I don't judge her. I simply like her. No reason, just that she has loads of guts to stand against the world and live life on her terms. I am sure men find her a threat.😆
 
Now I Lost All respect for Siddhu. 🤢
Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by -Chandramukhi-




@Bold: 🤣

And thanks for your input. Your post is one of the posts which was looking for. You see we all lose our cool and swear or abuse or even get physical at times doesn't mean we should be bogged down by such stereotyped picture of a woman. I mean even if a woman is far from someone's perception, what right does he or she have to call her out and criticize her actions for the fact that she is a woman. Criticism should be done without involving any gender induced statements. If he had simply said that modesty is something that should be embraced or encouraged, I would be happy and would even have applauded him for criticizing Sapna's wrong actions. I even gave him benefit of doubt since he belongs to a different generation. But the issue on hand is still the stereotyping of man or woman. So hope people can come outta it and reject or modify such statements which sounds as ancient as my grandparents. Even my grandparents haven't used such generalization on me 😆

Thanks Chandramukhi. I could not overlook such statements and keep quiet. I felt empowered to speak up my mind. Like you said, it is one thing to criticize a person for his or her actions because they are wrong. It's another thing to criticize a person for his or her actions because that person happens to be woman. Being a woman does not translate into bearing the burden of being modest.

Hands off to your modesty for giving him the benefit of doubt as he belongs to a different generation. ðŸ˜† I wouldn't have done that. Its sad that Siddhu said this on BB6, a show which is watched by millions in India. Such ancient statements should be buried and people should voice out their opinions against them.
Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by Dexterkilaila




Just because she is active in the dating scene does not necessarily mean she is sleeping around with multiple men at the same time. Dating does not necessarily mean sex or relationships. It can just imply a simple dinner date or a night out at the club or just a first coffee meet. Well...of course if she/he is sleeping with 5 people in one night or sleeping with a different person each day, then that's another story...I'd call such a man a manwh**e and such a girl a skank. But your context wasn't that, you were talking about a girl bringing her date home. In that scenario, I don't know of any liberal person opposing it because no girl is stupid enough to bring a FWB home to meet her parents. She only brings someone she's serious with home to her parents. So I don't see why the parents' blood pressure would rise.  In fact, the parents would more likely be happy that the daughter is in a serious relationship with someone.  



Those were two different examples with no relation to each other. I see where the confusion is and I said first "GF", first "BF" which is most likely at age 15-16 or even earlier. That reaction is different for both sexes, usually.

Of course, a girl in her 20's can bring a BF home and her parents would be happy. If that's what it came across then I'm sorry, it wasn't meant to.

Just to clear it up

Example 1 : First BF at age 15 vs First GF at age 15.
Example 2: Sleeping around, picking up randoms etc

Gracias


Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by guess_wh0


"Lajja aurat ka gehna hota hai"

First, why is this considered demeaning?

Secondly, having that belief is not regressive in any form. The most liberal and "modern" people will have that belief too. When a guy brings his first girlfriend home, his dad gives him a high five. You know what happens when a girl brings her "bf" home? Not just the dad's but even the mom's, a woman herself, blood pressure rises through the roof.
When a woman is "active" in the dating scene, other women call her a skank, a wh**e, a s**t etc. When a man is, other guys call him a "player".

Bottom line: Women are judged differently than men. Not just in the Indian society, but all societies. Not just by men, by women themselves. Not just by conservatives but by liberal's too. Its not regressive thinking, its the only thinking. Is it right, I don't know, but it is true.

 


I can see where you were headed with Dexy, so I will put in my 2 cents.

Your post is basically saying that such stereotypes exist and even we can't get out of it. I agree and even we might get tangled with such stereotypes. But that doesn't mean we can't question it or we can't bring in the change.

Your example included boys = players and girls = wh**e for sleeping around. This might happen time to time with many of us. But that doesn't mean it is the right way to look at it, now does it. When we come across something we don't agree with, wouldn't we try and bring in the change to accommodate our views.

And Aurat  = Lajja is demeaning especially when it is used in the context of criticizing a girl for being loud or potty mouth. I believe criticism can be done without having to rely on gender. Wrongs actions are worth condemning whether it is a girl or a guy and it shouldn't be done for the sake of encouraging the perception of a woman in any society. This is the general picture of a society that girls shouldn't rely on shouting or foul language because they should be modest while guys do not get looked down on when they get aggressive or rely on foul language. Again there are exceptions. but this is the general idea. And that is objection I have, why should a girl behave the way society wants her to. Let the girl decide for herself what is right or wrong and how she wants to act.
Edited by -Chandramukhi- - 11 years ago

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