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About Asura King Bali (Page 3)

varaali IF-Dazzler

Joined: 17 July 2006
Posts: 2961

Posted: 10 November 2012 at 12:31am | IP Logged
Minakshi- in the first post you that quoted Srimad bhagavatham, it says, 'After Samudra Manthan...'

In my experience, Vyasa uses this word 'after' in the most liberal sense. Sometimes it may mean two or three years, sometimes two or three lifetimes...

Let us analyse what we know. We know, for a fact, Narasimha avatar preceded Vamana avatar. We also have details of Prahalada's birth  and boyhood. Which means Bali could not have been born before the Narasimha Avatar (since Prahalad was just a kid then). 

So, I am still inclined to believe that the Bali of Samudra Manthan was a different one.

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mnx12 Moderator

Joined: 02 August 2010
Posts: 20789

Posted: 10 November 2012 at 2:17am | IP Logged
varaali, while posting this I just cheked only 8th Skandh as Samudra Manthan is described well in only Shrimad Bhagvat. This entire confusion is due to the events in Puranas not being given in proper order of time.
Let's see, Varaha avatar has to be in the beginning, after the Vedas were recovered, followed by Matsya avatar, then Kurma or Narsimha is confusing. But if we take Rahu's existance at Samuda Manthan, who was son of Simhika, who was daughter of Hiranyakashyapu (at some place she is mentioned as his sister, though Holika being his sister is known but not Simhika, so may be she is his daughter)
Rahu had 100 brothers, this means there was a long time since her marriage. Hiranyakashyapu was a strong Asura, he is not mentioned during SM if he existed atleast in SB. So may be Narsimha avatar was after Kurma.
 Checked again,
Shrimad Bhagvat, 8th Shandh, 9th Adhyaya is about how Mohini distributed Amrut.
10th Adhyaya is about Devasur war immidiately after Devas had Amrit.
Check 13thto 15th shloka, 16th shloka is
" Varochano Balih sankhyey soasuranachamupatih
 yanam vaihayasam nam kamagammayanirmitam"II
13 to 16th Shloka means, in that battle field, Virochan's son Bali was on a plane called Vaikayasa made by Maya Danav. It could go wherever he wanted, used to disappear too some times.

Edited by mnx12 - 10 November 2012 at 3:24am

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sia221 IF-Rockerz

Joined: 30 October 2011
Posts: 5655

Posted: 10 November 2012 at 2:30am | IP Logged
So this Bali is not the creation of DKDM's Puran but our very own Vaman Avtaar wale Bali...LOL
Thanks for clearing the confusion..Smile

Edited by sia221 - 10 November 2012 at 2:30am

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.Vrish. Viewbie

Joined: 25 October 2008
Posts: 26250

Posted: 10 November 2012 at 3:17am | IP Logged
Originally posted by varaali

Originally posted by .Vrish.

So did Kurma avatar happen after Narasimha avatar?

If you go by the 22 avatar theory of Srimad Bhagavtham,  Varaha avatar is ahead of Matsya and others.

Varaha avatar is the second incarnation (the first being the four Sanat Kumaras)

Matsya is the 10th, Kurma -the 11th , Dhanvantri -the 12th and Mohini -the 13th avatars. 

Lord Vishnu's 14th avatar is Narasimha and His 15th avatar is Vamana.

But in that case, the 2 Balis could not possibly have both been Prahlad's grandson.  In Narasimha avatar, Prahlad was just a boy, so neither Virochan nor Bali could have even been born.  For Bali to have been an adult and the ruler of the asuras, first Narasimha avatar would have had to happen, then Prahlad's rule (including his conflict w/ Indra, and yeah, he too had his wars w/ Indra), then Virochan's and after Virochan's murder by Indra, then Bali.

So Narasimha avatar would have had to have taken place very early in the Satya Yuga, rather than the cusp of Satya & Treta Yugas.

Honestly, I think that SB makes a real mess of things while recounting events that happened outside Krishna's history.  Vyasa has a loose literary style of writing, which is seen even in the Mahabharata.  Also, SB makes absolutely no attempt to be consistent w/ other works.  As I pointed out in the DBSK forum, just look at the SB description of the destruction of the Yadavas, and contrast it w/ the clean way in which the Mahabharata describes it.  I'd not put SB ahead of anything else in terms of credibility when it comes to recounting puranic events, particularly if the events in question are described in works predating it.

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DeewaniRimi IF-Dazzler

Joined: 20 September 2012
Posts: 4811

Posted: 10 November 2012 at 12:55pm | IP Logged
There are so many theories about Lord Vishnu's incarnations.Please Someone do help me and explain all incarnations of Lord Vishnu.I am really confused specially between Dashavataram and 22 Avataram theory.Please clear my confusion.Confused
Arijit007 IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 18 October 2012
Posts: 19830

Posted: 11 November 2012 at 1:48pm | IP Logged
I found the 22 avatars of vishnu theory in the net, not only the situtation with bali is confusing but the acurate timing of the birth of the 10nth or 22nd avatar kalki. Some say he is bourn allready, some say he will come letter.and nobody in the world knows where exactly kalki's birthplace shambhal is.

Edited by Tarakari - 11 November 2012 at 3:02pm
mithilarids Senior Member

Joined: 19 October 2008
Posts: 351

Posted: 13 November 2012 at 1:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by mrmrfrevr

Originally posted by mithiliards
thanx for info/... but i have 1 doubt

is he the same bali... who was mentioned in ramayana???

bali as sugrivs brother?

No dear.He was a Vanara King and ruled Kiskindhya kingdom. And the person whom DKDM CVs are shown is Asura King Bali,Son of King Virochan and Grandson of Prahlada.

Also Vanararaj Bali was present in Sri Ram's time and was killed by him and Asuraraj Bali was in Vishnuji's Vaman avatar's time.He was trapped by his own words by Vamanrupi Vishnuji. Vamanrupi Vishnuji came to him and asked him for 3feetfull of land. .Bali readily agreed.Then he made his body so big that heaven and earth were covered by his 2 feet and then he asked where would he place his 3rd feet?Then Bali told him" please put your 3rd feet on my head."  Then he placed his 3rd feet on his head and sent him to NeitherWorld.But that time Bali's Grandfather appeared in front of Lord Vishnu and requested to forgive Bali.So Lord Vishnu forgave him and made him the King of NeitherWorld.

thanx dear..Smile
.Vrish. Viewbie

Joined: 25 October 2008
Posts: 26250

Posted: 13 November 2012 at 2:34am | IP Logged
As I mentioned in the thread about the moral of samudra manthan:

On a different note, thinking about it some, I just don't think the Bali of Kurma avatar is the same as Bali of Vamana avatar, as mentioned in the SB narrative.  For one thing, I go by the Dashavatar theory and that too chronologically - M, K, V, N, V, P,... and not by SB's 22 avatar theory, where Vyasa rather narcissistically makes himself one of the avatars.  Also, it defies logic and makes Vishnu schizophrenic to suggest that he had issue w/ Bali getting the amrit in the samudra manthan episode, but no issue making Bali immortal after the Vamana episode.  I therefore can only conclude that Bali being a common enough name at the time, the 2 Balis were different, and that Vishnu had issues w/ one of them, but not the other.

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