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difference btwn valmiki ramayan n tulsidas - Note Pg4

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namrata1111

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namrata1111

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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 9:41am | IP Logged
Hi!  Actually, it was Vashishth who was Sri Ram's guru.  Valmiki is different rishi who wrote down the Ramayan and also who took in Sitaji when Ramji sent her with Lakshman to be abandoned in the van.  It was Valmiki who taught the Ramayan to Luv-Kush.

Nice discussion topic!!Smile


Edited by bhakti2 - 07 November 2012 at 9:41am

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 1. Difference between Maanas and Raamaayan and other Issues


Who defeated Raavan? Raavan couldn't be defeated even by Indra, Yam, Varun etc Devtaa, but still he was defeated by three people. Who were they?

1. Daitya Raaj Bali of  Rasaatal  from where he came back hurt. 

2. Haihaya Vanshee Raajaa Sahastra Baahu or Sahastraarjun of Mahishmatee Nagaree from where Maharshi Pulastya Jee freed him. Arjun releases him and declares him his friend

3. Vaanar Raaj Baali of Kishkindhaa Puree from where Raavan accepts his defeat then becomes his friend.

He extended friendship with Naag of Bhogvatee Nagaree and Raajaa Maandhaataa of Ayodhyaa also.


Why Prithvi is called Medinee?

In the beginning of the Creation, when only Brahmaa appeared from Vishnu's navel, two Asur, named Madhu and Kaitabh appeared from Vishnu's navel. Immediately they attacked Brahmaa Jee, but Vishnu killed them both soon. As they got killed the whole Prithvi was wet with their Med (flesh), that is why it is called Medinee.


Who informs Raavan about Panchvatee event?

(1) In Maanas - Shoorpankhaa goes to Raavan to inform him about Raam and Lakshman,  her insult and Khar and Dooshan's death

(2) In Raamaayan - Akampan, a spy of Raavan, goes to Raavan to inform only about Raam and Lakshman and killing of Khar, Dooshan, Trishiraa and their 14,000 army. Luckily Raavan did not ask the triggering point of this huge killing, otherwise Akampan had to tell about his own sister Shoorpankhaa's approach to Raam also. Then Raavan might kill him in rage. So he doesn't even mention about Shoorpankhaa's insult.
[Aranya Kaand]


Why Akampan advises Raavan to abduct Seetaa?

(1) In Maanas - Shoorpankhaa mentions about Seetaa that "They have a beautiful woman also with them", but of course she never asks him to abduct her.

(2) In Raamaayan, - Akampan advises Raavan to abduct Seetaa -

(a) Because he knows his Swaamee, that he was a womanizer, so he found a triggering point to kill Raam that He could not live without Her. 
(b) Looks like he is behaving saintly, so he is helping Raam to eliminate all Raakshas from the face of Prithvi by first bringing Seetaa to Lankaa, then forcing Raam to come to Lankaa to kill all Raakshas and take Seetaa with Him.


Did Shabaree offer self-bitten berries to Raam?

(1) Maanas doesn't mention this that Raam ate Shabaree's bitten fruits.

[3/74] See also end note there for detailed description
All people are normally told that Bhagvaan Raam ate Shabaree's bitten berries which she tasted before to check that they were sweet before offering them to Raam. Besides she used to do it everyday, because she did not know when Raam would come to her Aashram.  

So where is the scene of Raam eating fruits and eatables bitten and tasted by Shabaree here? Had this old woman not offer the fruits to the guests, or just said that they are available? We listen many stories and see many pictures telling that she gave many fruits after biting them with her own teeth to test the taste. All that is not in Vaalmeeki Raamaayan too. This amplification is from Padm Puraan.


Vyaakaran (grammar) is born from from Shiv's Damaroo.


How many Shaap to Raavan?

(1) Maanas doesn't mention any Shaap to Raavan. Rather it mentions about an Amrit Kund in his navel. And that is why Raam was unable to kill him by in spite of many attempts until Vibheeshan opened this secret to Raam

(2) Raamaayan describes many Shaap which indicated his death, on Raavan's head. 

1. First of all while he asked the Var for the first time from Brahmaa  Jee and then from Shiv Jee, he did not ask immortality from human beings and monkeys. Although it is not a Shaap but it is a means of of his death.

2. When he was coming from his global victory he abducted many women from from Devtaa, Daanav and Raajarshi etc, so they gave him Shaap, "Because you looked at other wives that is why you will die because of a woman".

3. One Shaap he got from Kuber's son Nalkoobar. When Raavan was going to win Chandramaa and rested on Kailaash Parvat in the night, he saw Rambhaa Apsaraa going to Nalkoobar and raped her. She told everything to Nalkoobar. Nalkoobar gave Shaap to Raavan, "If you will touch any woman forcefully, without her wish, your head will break in seven pieces." That is why he could not touch any woman without their wish, including Seetaa. And this saved many a women's Dharm living in Raavan's women's palaces.

4. One Shaap was from Shiv's Gan Nandee who was in Vaanar form. When Raavan saw him like this, he laughed at him. Nandee gave him Shaap, "You have laughed at my Vaanar form, you and all Raakshas will be killed by Vaanar only.

5. Once he saw a beautiful woman on a Parvat doing Tapasyaa, he requested her to marry him, but she refused to marry him saying that her father wanted her to marry to Vishnu so she will marry only Vishnu and that is why she was doing Tapasyaa. On forcing by Raavan she said, "I will reborn to be the cause of your death". So she was born as Seetaa.
[Uttar Kaand]


About Raam and Raavan's  Birth

(1) Maanas - Tulasee has listed several reasons as who were Raavan, Kumbhkarn and Vibheeshan, such as (1) story of Shaap to Vishnu's Paarshad Jaya and Vijaya, (2) Naarad's pride and his Shaap to Vishnu - Vishnu's birth as human being, help from monkeys and separation from His wife, (3) Story of Raajaa Prataap Bhaanu (4) Var to Aditi and Kashyap, (5) Var to Manu and Shatroopaa

(2) Raamaayan - But Vaalmeeki Jee does not recognize any of these reasons for Raam or Raavan's birth.


About Raam's Incarnation of Vishnu

(1) Maanas - Tulasee never forgets to remember Raam as Bhagvaan (God) even though, at the same time He is an ordinary human being and for the welfare of the world He is behaving like a human being.

(2) Raamaayan - Vaalmeeki's Raam has never recognized Himself as Bhagvaan (God). He has always considered Himself as a human being. In Uttar Kaand He asks Agastya Muni to tell Him as Who He is? 


Who threw Shakti to Lakshman?  [Lankaa Kaand]

(1) Maanas - says Meghnaad threw the Shakti on Lakshman and it made Him unconscious. Tulasee says - "Meghnaad was very happy to see Lakshman dead and he wanted to lift Him up but Lakshman was not only Lakshman, He was the incarnation of Shesh Jee who keeps the Prithvi on his head, how it was possible to lift Him even by thousands of Raakshas." 

Hanumaan had to go to Lankaa to bring Raakshas' Vaidya Sushen along with his house and he guided Hanumaan to bring some herbs from Himaalaya Parvat. On the way he met Bharat also. Later when Lakshman got all right Hanumaan took Sushen back as he brought him from there.

(2) Raamaayan - says that when Raavan came into battlefield to fight with Raam and Raam came forward to fight with Raavan , Lakshman asked permission to fight with him which Raam readily gave. Then Raavan threw Shakti at Lakshman. Of course it made Him unconscious, but Hanumaan never went to Lankaa to bring Sushen, rather Sugreev's father-in-law Sushen treated Him - of course through the herbs brought from Ksheer Saagar Parvat. And he doesn't meet even Bharat also.


Entering of Seetaa into Fire

[6]
(1) In Maanas - Tulasee's Seetaa is always holy and pure. He has nicely put a scene, in which Raam asks Seetaa to enter into fire because He wanted to do some Leelaa as a human being, so he wanted to keep Her safe with Agni Dev. And since not even Lakshman could know it, He had to retrieve Her back from Agni, that is why it was necessary to ask Seetaa to enter fire. Agni Dev finally brought His original Seetaa back.

(2) In Raamaayan - While Vaalmeeki's Seetaa is an ordinary Satee Pativrataa woman proving Herself pure at time to time. There is no mention of such incident [putting Seetaa with Agni Dev after Khar-Dooshan Vadh] in Vaalmeeki's Raamaayan, but She had to enter Agni at the time of returning from Raavan's Lankaa.


Establishment of Shiv Ling on Sea Coast

(1) In Maanas - establishment of Shiv Ling on the sea coast has been mentioned very prominently. [Its one reason is given, as Raam was going to kill Raavan who was a great devotee of Shiv, that is why it was necessary to please Shiv Jee before harming His Bhakt; or take permission to kill His Bhakt].

(2) In Raamaayan - But Vaalmeeki never even mentions it.


Angad-Raavan Dialogs

(1) In Maanas - There is a detailed description of Angad-Raavan dialogs which fits there very logically. Especially the story of stamping his foot in Raavan's court and then to ask anybody to move it from its place is very popular in northern society. (Maybe because of reading Maanas all around there.)

(2) In Raamaayan - But Vaalmeeki Jee has only mentioned about it that Raam sent Angad to Raavan. he doesn't give any details.


Raam's fight With Lav and Kush

(1) In Maanas - Although Maanas  doesn't describe Raam's life after His crowning, but we hear a lot about the reference of the holding Ashwamedh Yagya horse by Lav and Kush and defeating Bharat, Lakshman, and Shatrughn by them in fighting while they wanted to get their horse back. But when Raam comes to fight with them, Seetaa requests Vaalmeeki Jee to stop Her children fighting with their father.

(2) In Raamaayan - But Vaalmeeki Raamaayan's story flow doesn't go that way. Then where does this reference come from?


While killing Raavan,

(1) In Maanas - Maanas describes it "Trijataa says "Hey princess, Raam is not killing Raavan because you are always in Raavan's mind. And you always live in Raam's heart, if Raam kills Raavan, then he will kill you, and if He will kill you, He will kill Himself, and since Trilok is in Him, so by killing Raavan this Trilok will also be destroyed. When fighting continuously, Raavan will not think about you, then only Raam will kill him."

(2) In Raamaayan - Raamaayan doesn't mention Seetaa asking about Raavan's killing and then Trijataa telling Her as why Raam was not killing Raavan. 


While killing Raavan,

(1) In Maanas - Vibheeshan helps Raam  to kill Raavan. He says to Raam - "Raavan has Amrit in his navel that is why he is not being killed. Unless you break that Amrit Kund, he wouldn't die." Then Raam had to shoot 31 arrows to kill him - 10 for his 10 heads, 20 for his 20 arms and one for his navel to break the Amrit pot there. Before this He was shooting only 30 arrows - 10 arrows for his heads and 20 arrows for his arms, but in this way his heads and arms used to grow again as soon as they were cut. He had a Vardaan for this.

(2) In Raamaayan -  Maatali advises Raam to use Brahmaastra to kill Raavan, but still Raam uses another weapon and just kills him.



Edited by .Vrish. - 07 November 2012 at 11:45pm

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Posted: 08 November 2012 at 5:58pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by namrata1111

 

in valmiki ramayan hanuman is described as a normal human being who doesnt not had any tail. there is no story of hanuman;s tail in valmiki ramayan
 

 
 
I am sorry, I disagree with this part. Please view verse no 5 in
 
 
 
It clearly mentions Hanuman with a tail.

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Posted: 09 November 2012 at 4:22am | IP Logged
Originally posted by bhakti2

Hi!  Actually, it was Vashishth who was Sri Ram's guru.  Valmiki is different rishi who wrote down the Ramayan and also who took in Sitaji when Ramji sent her with Lakshman to be abandoned in the van.  It was Valmiki who taught the Ramayan to Luv-Kush.

Nice discussion topic!!Smile

Actually, Guru Vaishistha too is said to have written a version of Ramayan.  Has anybody ever seen it, and knows the details of what's in it?

If one judges Ramayans by authenticity, the only ones that would count would be these 2, since they were contemporaneous accounts.  Of course, there would be the other question of whether they were altered over the ages, and to what extent, but the base of that story would still be unchanged.

In Valmiki, half the miracles that are described in Tulsidas, be it Hanuman's tail, Ahilya being turned into stone and so on didn't happen.  I believe this has been spelt out at length in I think the D&D threads in the AS Ramayan forum we had 4 years ago.

.Vrish.

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Posted: 09 November 2012 at 4:29am | IP Logged
Originally posted by visrom

Originally posted by namrata1111

 

in valmiki ramayan hanuman is described as a normal human being who doesnt not had any tail. there is no story of hanuman;s tail in valmiki ramayan
 

 
 
I am sorry, I disagree with this part. Please view verse no 5 in
 
 
 
It clearly mentions Hanuman with a tail.

Yeah, he did have his tail.  But see the previous sarg - no mention about his tail growing so that it exhausted all the cloth that was there in Lanka.  They just lit his tail, and he took off, and started setting fire to the whole city

..RamKiJanaki..

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Posted: 09 November 2012 at 8:42am | IP Logged
Thanks for the information everyone! It's always interesting reading about these differents of the different versions of Ramayan.
 
I think both Valmiki Ramayan and Ramcharitmanas deserve respect from devotees. Valmikiji of course was a contemporary of Shri Ram so his Ramayan has to be authentic, except of course for the changes that inevitably happened to the story while it was passed through many hands throughout the years. As Vrish said, the main story is probably accurate.
 
As for Ramcharitmanas, it is a bit more difficult to establish its authenticity like we can Valmiki Ramayan, but devotees believe that Lord Hanuman told Tulsidas the whole story which he then wrote down. Whether this is true or not is debatable, but that's what many people believe so this version of Ramayan is very popular.
 
However, when it comes to the characterizations of the characters, I would tend to believe Valmiki Ramayan a bit more because it is sometimes evident in Ramcharitmanas that Tulsidasji was influenced by the society of the 16th century when he was writing the epic. The role of women in the 16th century was different from the role of women we see in our puranas. The Sita of Valmiki Ramayan is outspoken, sometimes a bit aggressive, and is shown equal to Lord Ram whereas in Ramcharitmanas, she is far more submissive, quiet, and softspoken. In both stories Sita was a pious pativrata woman but Valmiki definitely portrays her as a stronger woman than Tulsidas does, which I prefer because Tulsidas's Sita is influenced by the portrayal of women during his times.
 
Of course, we can never know for sure what happened since these puranas took place eons ago, but I think what brings us closer to God is what we should believe, whether it be Valmiki Ramayan or Ramcharitmanas or another soruce. Personally, I love both. I prefer the characterizations of Ram and Sita in Valmiki Ramayan more, but I think the stories written in Ramcharitmanas are more devotional and meaningful. I really love all the God-devotee scenes of Ramcharitmanas which were missing from Valmiki Ramayan, and of course the romance of Ram and Sita we are used to is mostly from Ramcharitmanas as well.

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