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The surname fuss: A married woman's predicament! (Page 6)

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Pocket

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Pocket

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Posted: 17 October 2012 at 4:16pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Xaffron-

[QUOTE=Prometeus]

I dont think, a person's identity depends on a surnames...I know some people who use to say,''I liked my husband's surname more'' ...One practical difficulty, If anyone want to go outside india, or what about getting visa from outside countries ? For traveling on " spouses visa " claiming visa by virtue of her husband' s visa status , one of the cardinal points foreign countries check is whether in the visa application , husband's name has been taken by the wife a her last name or surname . If not, "spouse" visa could be refused. but she can apply separately and obtain tourist visa for limited period ...government of India shld take up this matter through diplomatic channels and incorporate the spirit of the Indian Law in respect of changing / taking names by women after marriage..Smile

 
The other question is, Men should be allowed to use wife's maiden surname after marriage and and even after divorce??!?!?!Big smile



no they do not check if both husband wife have same surname. its tradition only, not legal requirement. thats why there are seprate"name" and "surname" sections in application forms.  If they have doubt, they will ask for marriage certificate. My sister didnot change her last name. she never has problem applying for visa with her hubby.  

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Rehanism

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Rehanism

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Posted: 18 October 2012 at 12:46am | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz



I like your post for the entire length of it but for the bold part. A man is considered "manly" if he hits his wife or so much raises A FINGER ON HER? I always thought it was the other way round. If a man hits a woman-- "Yeh mard mard hi nahi hai. Auroto par haath uthane wala mard nahi hota."
If a woman slaps a man-- "Ha! Atta girl!" or, "Hehehehe...maar kha gaya bechara". Nobody screams different standards there I see. Tongue

That dialogue holds true only in Hindi films and FB comments..But reality is entirely different..In our society there are no such concepts like individualism, individual rights, freedom or mutual respect. Instead our societies are organized around concepts like Honour and Shame. And that is even truer for the middle class "Bhodrolok" families..

krystal_watz

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krystal_watz

Joined: 10 August 2009

Posts: 10247

Posted: 18 October 2012 at 1:42am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism

Originally posted by krystal_watz



I like your post for the entire length of it but for the bold part. A man is considered "manly" if he hits his wife or so much raises A FINGER ON HER? I always thought it was the other way round. If a man hits a woman-- "Yeh mard mard hi nahi hai. Auroto par haath uthane wala mard nahi hota."
If a woman slaps a man-- "Ha! Atta girl!" or, "Hehehehe...maar kha gaya bechara". Nobody screams different standards there I see. Tongue

<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">That dialogue holds true only in Hindi films and FB comments..But reality is entirely different..In our society there are no such concepts like individualism, individual rights, freedom or mutual respect. Instead our societies are organized around concepts like Honour and Shame. And that is even truer for the middle class "Bhodrolok" families..</font>


True. But atleast formally, its considered "un-manly" for a male to raise his hand on a female, even by the patriarchal Honour and Shame standards. You see outrage when a woman claims abuse by a man, but its still publically a laughing matter if a woman were to strike a man. Take the Johny Bravo cartoon for example. The entire humour point of that series was how a guy gets whacked and slapped by every woman he asks for a date. In popular public psychology, "hitting a woman" is emasculating.

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20652

Posted: 18 October 2012 at 8:50am | IP Logged

@Krystal

 

In many rural and traditional parts of the world, there is a culture of machismo. A man is supposed to be strong and in control. It is his manly duty to put women "in their place" either through physical or emotional coercion. If a woman is independent, free spirited and not subdued by a man, then that man loses his machismo.

 

The notion that it is un-manly to raise hand on a woman came about during the feminist era as a way to counter the culture of machismo. Ethical arguments against violence, coercion worked only in certain societies. In society where a man has to be macho, a man would rather be violent than un-manly. That is why the notion was spread that it is unmanly to raise a hand on a woman. Even then the notion is still that a woman is weaker than a man. He has physical power over her. And only he can protect and care for her. Encouraging women to stand up for themselves and even lash out with slaps or other physical assertion also was a means to counter male dominance. This was an issue where flight could not solve problems, fight was necessary. Especially for bruised or battered women.  

 

Ideally, neither gender ought to stronger or weaker. Society should not run on either machismo or feminism, but a balance between both genders. Violence against anyone is wrong. Depending on the circumstance it is Ok for men and women to use physical force against men or women. Unfortunately, our society is far from being ideal. The best we can do is avoid stringent notions and try to evaluate each situation on its merit.

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LeadNitrate

krystal_watz

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krystal_watz

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Posted: 18 October 2012 at 9:02pm | IP Logged
@RTH:
THAT was my point. I was replying to Rehan's post about an ideal equal society. My assertion was that the world can NEVER have ideal gender equality. Men would never give up their "protector of the home/family/clan" psychology. Even in a hypothetical situation where men and women are treated as "equal" in EVERY manner, there would be some degree of reverse sexism. Because the bogey of "male domination" will never cease to haunt women, even in a perfect society. Much like reverse-racism in the West, where "white trash" is acceptable but a retaliatory "black trash" or even calling a Black person unattractive would not be okay.

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 19 October 2012 at 7:34am | IP Logged

I'm really confused at what point you are trying to make Krystal. Confused

 

Rehan's post pointed out problems patriarchal stereotypes. The gist was that we cannot pretend to believe in equality, as long as stereotyped roles exist there will be no equality of any form.

 

You actually agreed to most of his post, but objected to part where he said: men who beat women are considered manly. You claimed the opposite was true.

 

Which is why I  responded with patriarchal stereotypes and how society has perceived them over time.

 

Now you are saying you actually disagree with his post and equality is not possible. If this was your point, why did you agree with Rehan? Why didn't you bring it up earlier?

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LeadNitrate

krystal_watz

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krystal_watz

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Posted: 19 October 2012 at 7:41pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades


I'm really confused at what point you are trying to make Krystal. Confused


</p>

Rehan's post pointed out problems patriarchal stereotypes. The
gist was that we cannot pretend to believe in equality, as long as stereotyped
roles exist there will be no equality of any form.



You actually agreed to most of his post, but objected to
part where he said: men who beat women are considered manly. You claimed the
opposite was true.



Which is why I responded
with patriarchal stereotypes and how society has perceived them over time.



<p>Now you are saying you actually disagree with his post and equality
is not possible. If this was your point, why did you agree with Rehan? Why didn't
you bring it up earlier?



I agreed with the points where he called out Polki_zolfi on her different behavioural standards for men and women. What I disagree with is, that equality can EVER be possible in human society one way or the other, no matter how much we try to "change" our way of thinking. One of the sexes would always feel treated unequally. I forgot to mention that in my first post since Rehan's "machismo" comment got my attention more.

Edited by krystal_watz - 19 October 2012 at 7:50pm

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