The surname fuss: A married woman's predicament! (Page 3)

-Roshan-

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 17 October 2011

Posts: 10859

Posted: 09 October 2012 at 11:08pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by return_to_hades

I never understood the tradition of changing names. Many people in my grandmothers generation didn't just change last names, but first names as well. Irrespective of who our names come from, our name has been ours from childhood to adult life. It is a part of identity and one should not have to change it. To me the thought of changing my last name is inconceivable. Not just is it unfair, it is such a hassle. Submit official name change forms. Update all your social networks. Update your banks, credit cards, wireless provider, employer, retirement account, voter registration, drivers license and registration ' it is a pain in the ass that's not even worth anything.

I would be open to hyphenated last names if my spouse will also hyphenate theirs. The children will also have hyphenated last names. But what if children with hyphenated names marry each other. So hypothetically a Rai-Bacchan were to marry a Arora-Khan they would become Rai-Bacchan-Arora-Khan, and what if they in turn marry someone with quadruple hyphens? The Sri Lankans will have a run for their money with long names.

Some people are doing away with family names and giving their kids neutral names at birth. So John Doe does not name his kids Jane John Doe & James John Doe. He names them Jane Shannon Rose and James Michael Ryan or something like that. Eventually, many decades down the road, I think names passed through generations may slowly fade away. But who knows.

Brilliantly articulated answer, RTH! I believe the most basic premise of this practice stems from the fact that tacit submission and consent make an integral part of our lives and our decision-making capabilities. We adapt to and adopt what our elders do, the way they dress, and the rituals they practice. Most of the time we may, or may not, be aware that we are being taken for a ride, albeit unintentionally. Yes, I strongly agree with you that changing names is pretty much, in essence, synonymous to compromising with one's true identity. The name that remains a part of our very existence, since the day we enter into the world, is not to be taken lightly or candidly - It's a milestone of our recognition and standing in the society we reside in. However, looking at the other side of the coin, what exactly do you think parents or women can do to curb this slavery-inducing practice?

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Rehanism,

-Roshan-

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 17 October 2011

Posts: 10859

Posted: 09 October 2012 at 11:09pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by Beyond_the_Veil

We never followed the tradition of keeping family names or changing names after marriage. In fact, I can't even think of people from the older generation in my family who changed their names after marriage.

Please share with us your story. Please inspire us all. Smile

-Roshan-

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 17 October 2011

Posts: 10859

Posted: 09 October 2012 at 11:18pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by Polki_Zofi

Having the husband's surname is a beautiful tradition, and there seem nothing wrong in it, unless someone wants to make it issue in a relationship. A relationship always have much to deal with, I think it should be left on people to decide what they want, and should be clear before wedding.

Men giving up their backbone is the most unpleasant thing there can be, and women giving up their brains the next worst thing. But both are common these days, as people want to jump in just as desperately and they later want to jump out. The demands and the issues they never stop, as respect for each other, tradition or tolerance is least. Such marriages will never succeed.

Alright, so we have a different side of the coin here. Thank you. Smile

P_Z, if I may ask, could you please clear the following doubts I have in mind?

1. In a developing society and culture like India, where women have started competing with men and going against the traditional notion of women being the weaklings, how exactly do you still hold on to your thoughts that men are the ones who should be holding on to their spines, and women; to their brains? Isn't that stereotyping and generalizing the male chauvinist agenda further? Why are men expected to be with the ones with a spine? They can be weaklings too! They can have an emotional breakdown too!

2. A name that remains with you all your life is sided in a fraction of seconds. The name (then maiden name, in your case), that had been marking your identity all his while is overshadowed by someone who barely knows you (no matter how many times you had dated him beforehand). Your report cards at school, your certifications, your degrees, passport, birth certificate scream your last name loud and clear. How exactly do you let your identity be compromised for someone who probably feels proud in having his name attached to yours, but doesn't reciprocate fairly and otherwise?

Polki_Zofi

Senior Member

Joined: 18 October 2010

Posts: 289

Posted: 10 October 2012 at 2:44am | IP Logged

Originally posted by -Xaffron-

Originally posted by Polki_Zofi

Having the husband's surname is a beautiful tradition, and there seem nothing wrong in it, unless someone wants to make it issue in a relationship. A relationship always have much to deal with, I think it should be left on people to decide what they want, and should be clear before wedding.

Men giving up their backbone is the most unpleasant thing there can be, and women giving up their brains the next worst thing. But both are common these days, as people want to jump in just as desperately and they later want to jump out. The demands and the issues they never stop, as respect for each other, tradition or tolerance is least. Such marriages will never succeed.

Alright, so we have a different side of the coin here. Thank you. Smile

P_Z, if I may ask, could you please clear the following doubts I have in mind?

1. In a developing society and culture like India, where women have started competing with men and going against the traditional notion of women being the weaklings, how exactly do you still hold on to your thoughts that men are the ones who should be holding on to their spines, and women; to their brains? Isn't that stereotyping and generalizing the male chauvinist agenda further? Why are men expected to be with the ones with a spine? They can be weaklings too! They can have an emotional breakdown too!

2. A name that remains with you all your life is sided in a fraction of seconds. The name (then maiden name, in your case), that had been marking your identity all his while is overshadowed by someone who barely knows you (no matter how many times you had dated him beforehand). Your report cards at school, your certifications, your degrees, passport, birth certificate scream your last name loud and clear. How exactly do you let your identity be compromised for someone who probably feels proud in having his name attached to yours, but doesn't reciprocate fairly and otherwise?

1. I said in a more general sense, not in the sense of a developing country. The topic seem to be for woman, from any country or race. I am from Poland, a developed EU country, a white Catholic by ethnicity, but still I am a woman.

Changing surname is not sign of weakness, but it is sign of tradition. We in Poland do it too, and women wish it so much that some keep it even after a separation. Having husband's name is a sense of starting a new family unit.

Men without spines and integrity are not what women really like, at least in my part of the world (Slavic countries). I thought it was same world over, but it seem now its different in India (surprising to me). A man with spine don't mean he will not help in home, or give equal value to wife, but he should be strong enough to fulfill his role as a husband and protector of the household. His wife is the gardener of this home. It has spiritual and traditional aspect to it. Men can be very emotional, but giving up name and identity is sign of weakness and not emotion. Weak men are not important.

2. When you love, you should be ready to adjust. Changing name is not big deal. It is matter of some hours before all other names in all other document are adjusted. Maybe more in India, but that is problem with Indian government.

When born you took name of the father, later its the husband. There is not much difference. If it keep the family a cohesive unit then why not? It keep confusion low and makes the husband feel more responsible.

We have seen West European ideals applied in our societies across Europe, and now none of our marriages work and the men are drunk looser. Better to adjust tradition on its good values and remain with it. Being wife and having family compares to nothing.

Indians have such social systems so good and working still that they want to find flaw and experiment. You may do it but we tasted already, so maybe my "other side of coin" comes from that . Ofcourse woman and man are equal, but I like the name sharing and common features in the family. Role of different family members being different.

I hate men who are weak and find excuses or behave like woman. Men should be men, and men can be very kind and sacrificing too. Instead to take their advantage, if we support them and compromise a little on us maybe the family can stay?

It is my thought.

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Kai., -Roshan-,

-Roshan-

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 17 October 2011

Posts: 10859

Posted: 10 October 2012 at 3:28am | IP Logged

That was quite an interesting reply, P_Z. I'd love to speak more about this with you. Kindly give me some time, as I'm active on other forums too.

Thank you. Smile

NocturnalBeing

IF-Rockerz

Joined: 14 March 2010

Posts: 7126

Posted: 10 October 2012 at 7:38am | IP Logged

Well, I do agree with you!

It's sad that only women has to go through stereotypical norms stating she has to leave her everything and start a new life.

If this is so, then why does she have the responsibility of both her households?

ANYWAYS. I think such norms should be altered and some clauses should be added. What's wrong if a man changes his surname? It won't break a mountain.

But for sure his EGO!

-Nivriti [With you in this debate! :)]

rahmona_pakswe

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 13 July 2009

Posts: 18760

Posted: 10 October 2012 at 11:08am | IP Logged

A woman should have the choice to change or not change their surname. My mother comes from a very small town in Punjab Pakistan and she never changed her surname nor did the other females in her family because there was no tradition to do so. Generally a woman kept her maiden name and the children got their father's name. However me born and raised in Europe did change my surname maybe because of how everything works here.

Funny enough in my family us children got our mother's surname and not father's. But my family is slightly different. We have a lot of role reversed things happening despite being very religious Muslims.

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Rehanism, return_to_hades, Beyond_the_Veil,

Polki_Zofi

Senior Member

Joined: 18 October 2010

Posts: 289

Posted: 10 October 2012 at 11:20am | IP Logged

Maybe changing surname and giving a family one common unit face is a European custom and not Asian , maybe it came from the British? So some of you say you dont change through dynasties?

In Europe its very special, I dont know of west Europe much, but Central and East its very good sign

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