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did India move away from Gandhism? (Page 9)

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krystal_watz

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krystal_watz

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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 8:50am | IP Logged
You did not. You didn't reply to the questions about Gandhi's flaws, his anti-modern industrialization drive. You also chose to keep mum on the role played by the INA and the revolt that their faux trial invited in the British Indian Navy. Also, your statement on "No light beyond Christ" was seriously bigoted and couldn't let you be taken seriously. You should really have left out that bit.

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 8:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Polki_Zofi


You have wrong information of Missionaries killing natives. Missionaries have light and hope to India. Missionaries saved India. It is because of missionaries, there prayers and the Bible that they took to India that India is still surviving. This is simple truth. Is there no Christian Indian here in this forum? Catholic?


This probably has to be the most arrogant and offensive point I have read. You claim you are not a racist, but here you make an extremely racist demeaning Indians and claiming that the only reason India survives is because of Christian missionaries. I think you are blind and ignorant about the history of missionaries.

 

I would not label all missionaries as bad. There were several genuinely humanitarian missionaries. Many did spend their lifetimes in rural/tribal areas providing healthcare, food and education. I'm also appreciative of the work that missionaries did against horrendous practices like Sati, child marriage, caste system etc. At the same time many missionaries were downright barbaric. They conducted inquisitions where they tortured and forced people into conversion. They destroyed temples and ancient cultural architecture. Moreover, it was not just missionaries, India had their own share of social reformers like Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Mahatma Jyotiba Phule, Swami Vivekananda etc.

 

I would make a humble request to you. Please stop trying to discuss this topic further. Your knowledge of India, its people, its history, its culture is highly limited. Your perception of India is limited to Gandhi and some other stereotypes. I don't think you have enough information and understanding on India to make an intelligent debate on this subject. You may mean well, but it is honestly coming off as racist, offensive and demeaning. It is also very pretentious trying to tell us what we should think and whom we should idealize without knowing much about India.




Edited by return_to_hades - 15 October 2012 at 8:54am

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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 10:16am | IP Logged
Originally posted by King-Anu

Originally posted by tannipartner

.
Originally posted by king anu

Itwas people of certain regions/provinces who wanted a separate state.[/DIV]

King Anu
 


Donno about Punjab but if u say that anywhere in modern West bengal or Bangladesh u will be torn apart before you finish this sentence. And people irrespective of religion will come together to tear you apart..
 
There does not exist a person, a mai ka lal, on this universe let along Bangla et al. who would be able to even touch me without my permission let alone "tear me apart". My request to you would be to learn some manners and behave like a civilized person and not a wild animal. And more than that stop speaking for Bengal/Bangladesh and its good people. I doubt they are like you.
 
And let me say this again.
 
It was people of certain regions/provinces who wanted a separate state
 
I am extremely tolerant person and even here I am not reporting you for this nonsense. lol.

I owe you an apology. I got carried away in the heat of the moment  and have responded to you rudely. I am sorry to offend you. It was not my intention. I should have framed my response differently.

Here it is:

A huge number of people from Bengal and current Bangladesh, common people, would vehemently oppose your statement that people of certain regions/ provinces wanted separate state. It always were the leaders.

Offcourse you can have a different opinion on that. Thats why it is a debate.

An ill mannered person do not say I agree even to a person on opposite side of team,guess that portion did not come to your attention. But you are free to have your opinion. I am free to have mine.


PS: My apology was for my harsh response and my way of speaking only, I stand by what i tried to convey.



Edited by tannipartner - 15 October 2012 at 10:29am

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Polki_Zofi

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Polki_Zofi

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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 10:36am | IP Logged
Gandhi being against industrialization and modernization is new to me. If he was maybe he had a reason or maybe he is misunderstood? here is a link

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,988159,00.html

Gandhi was a man of non violence and peace. He even liked western philosophy. This is what I read. This is what I know.

return to hades, missionaries have saved many around the world with the message of Christ. This is a popular saying and belief in Christians. How did I sound racist? What do you mean by racist, can you define racist?

Christ is the savior, the Son of God, the savior of the world. Poland survives for Him, USA survives for Him, India too. What is wrong in this word? How it makes me racist? Christ belong to India as much as any country. Why other races are so quick to label white people as racist?

No knowledge is complete, but hope and belief is. I am also interested in Mohammed Yunus and his micro credit and social business. Many people say wrong about him and he is persecuted in his own country, but many who believe he is great will always support him.

Missionaries never ever killed anyone, they only preached love and saved the world including India. Christ IS the Savior! Where is doubt. Please dont make this thread on religion. It is not meant so. Why someone mentioned missionary killing natives! Why mention missionaries? If you do then any Catholic must MUST defend!
I am appalled I am called racist for this. It is insane Confused. This thread cannot be to insult, it was for peaceful man. Intolerance is shown by me? Well, I think I can see many lashing out elsewhere.

What can be said! Fine.

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 10:37am | IP Logged
Originally posted by King-Anu

Originally posted by tannipartner

.
Originally posted by king anu

Itwas people of certain regions/provinces who wanted a separate state.[/DIV]

King Anu
 


Donno about Punjab but if u say that anywhere in modern West bengal or Bangladesh u will be torn apart before you finish this sentence. And people irrespective of religion will come together to tear you apart..
 
There does not exist a person, a mai ka lal, on this universe let along Bangla et al. who would be able to even touch me without my permission let alone "tear me apart". My request to you would be to learn some manners and behave like a civilized person and not a wild animal. And more than that stop speaking for Bengal/Bangladesh and its good people. I doubt they are like you.
 
And let me say this again.
 
It was people of certain regions/provinces who wanted a separate state
 
I am extremely tolerant person and even here I am not reporting you for this nonsense. lol.


I think you both are getting vexed over a misunderstanding here. Both of you seem to have taken objection to sentences from each other's posts without addressing full context. In gist, it appears that you both may agree to a certain extent.

 

Polki_Zofi made a claim that India, Pakistan, Bangladesh always wanted to be separate.

 

King Anu rightly corrected her saying that British India was actually a lot of independent kingdoms and territories. Some of these regions wanted autonomy/separation. Junagadh, Hyderabad, Kashmir and other minor princely states did not want to merge with India or Pakistan. Some separatists wanted to split Bengal and Punjab down communal lines.

 

However, not all people in Punjab and Bengal wanted partition. Many people, irrespective of religion, did not want division on communal lines. They wanted a unified Punjab or Bengal, not partition. While partition affected the entire nation. Punjab and Bengal bore the brunt of partition. These two regions faced the most violence and death. That is why many Punjabis and Bengalis tend to be sensitive about partition issues. Partition was a lot more to do with power play and politics rather than will of the people. Many Punjabis and Bengalis don't like being considered responsible for partition. That is why Tannipartner objected to King Anu's statements because it made it seem like all people in Punjab and Bengal wanted partition, which is not true. It was just "some people in regions" not just "people in regions".

 

And "tear you apart" in my opinion was merely a figure of speech. The post may have been a aggressive, but  I don't think any actual violence or ill will was intended. I'm not sure why King Anu took it like an act of aggression.

 

We Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, due to our history will always have our differences, nitpick and argue with other about partition, politics and religion.  Our leaders past and present don't make it easy for us to get along. But I think collectively we all have a better understanding of  the subcontinent, our common culture and history. Why not come together and focus on correcting the misconceptions of outsiders who don't get it. We can start fighting in some other topic. Tongue


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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 10:41am | IP Logged
[

RTH, if you see above, I apologised for coming on too harsh. I have modified what i wanted to say there.

"tear you apart" was  indeed a figure of speech. I was harsh about the political propaganda thingi.
But different people will have different interpretation. Its debate mansion.

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Polki_Zofi

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Polki_Zofi

Joined: 18 October 2010

Posts: 289

Posted: 15 October 2012 at 10:47am | IP Logged
It is so good when

Hitler is praised, given credit for Indian independence

Bose who tried to deal with him is hero!

How on earth hitlers killing of innocents be even written side to indian riot for separation? If it is objected, the white is the racist once more! Your history speak differently than what the world see. But you have information that the world see just as you see it! Clap amazing!

lost speech! I hope this is just within this forum, the praise of hitler in some topics and topics made to praise him! Making Gandhi terrorist (as mentioned some threads and in this one). Also praising calling a woman racist as she says what the whole Catholic world says about brave missionaries and the truth of Christ!

It dont make sense. Hope it is till this forum.

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 10:51am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Polki_Zofi

Gandhi being against industrialization and modernization is new to me.


Then maybe you should learn more about Gandhi before speaking. He opposed textile mills, mass manufacturing industries simply because they were British influences and ignored their benefits to India. You can see this opinion in a lot of his speeches and essays.

Originally posted by Polki_Zofi

Gandhi was a man of non violence and peace. He even liked western philosophy. This is what I read. This is what I know.


And no one is denying that. But a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. There is a lot more to Gandhi, both good and bad. You cannot simply rely on the media fed image that has been imprinted in you. You need to open up to other ways how his own countrymen perceive him

Originally posted by Polki_Zofi

return to hades, missionaries have saved many around the world with the message of Christ. This is a popular saying and belief in Christians. How did I sound racist? What do you mean by racist, can you define racist?

Christ is the savior, the Son of God, the savior of the world. Poland survives for Him, USA survives for Him, India too. What is wrong in this word? How it makes me racist? Christ belong to India as much as any country. Why other races are so quick to label white people as racist?


We here in the subcontinent are people of all religions. We are Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, atheists and yes even Christians. To have the audacity to impose your religious faith on this diverse group of people is nothing short of arrogant, ignorant and dismissive of their widespread beliefs and culture. If you cannot see the racism in that, no one can help you.

And no we are not labeling white people as racist. Don't lump yourself with all the good ones out there. We are talking to "YOU" and "YOUR" statements. You could be white, black, Indian, Asian for all I care. These words will still be racist. Shows your mentality when you make this issue into an other people vs. white people issue.

Originally posted by Polki_Zofi

Missionaries never ever killed anyone, they only preached love and saved the world including India. Christ IS the Savior! Where is doubt. Please dont make this thread on religion. It is not meant so. Why someone mentioned missionary killing natives! Why mention missionaries? If you do then any Catholic must MUST defend! I am appalled I am called racist for this. It is insane Confused. This thread cannot be to insult, it was for peaceful man. Intolerance is shown by me? Well, I think I can see many lashing out elsewhere.

What can be said! Fine.


What sort of lala land are you living in? Are you seriously ignorant of the fact that many missionaries did kill people and forced people into conversion through blackmail and violence? Damn! Even the most extreme hard core evangelicals from the Bible belt don't have such ignorance. No wonder!!!

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