did India move away from Gandhism? (Page 11)

return_to_hades

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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 11:48am | IP Logged

@Polki_Zofi – I apologize if we sounded harsh. If you claim that you did not intend to demean Indians or look down on us in your posts, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I would never tell you who and what is important in Polish history or what values and whom Polish people should idolize. No matter how much I learn about Poland, as a born and raised Polish you will always have the ability to better understand it from a Polish perspective and a right to express it. I only hope you extend us a similar respect and courtesy. Please do not make assumptions on our history. Please do not impose on us your perceptions and your ideas. We can agree to debate the pros and cons of certain issues and perceptions, as long as that line of respect is not crossed.

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kavyasam

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Posted: 15 October 2012 at 7:47pm | IP Logged

@TM - I dont get it why is India's credentials and development being based on Gandhi's principles?

India was and is bigger and beyond Gandhi or any other leader. He along with other freedom fighters got us Independence. In the process he has gained many critics and many followers. It is not like every Indian has to follow gandhism to prove he is respected or recognised.

India is surviving and thriving because of Indians, period.

Subash Chandra Bose wanted independence as much as Gandhi wanted. His efforts and contributions are no less. Same with any other leader. It is a collective effort . Every Indian wanted independence.

Please read our history before judging our leaders.

It is insulting when people talk about our country without getting the real picture, like how they do in sitcoms and news articles here, picturing it as a poor country, and movies like Slumdog only enhance that belief. There is much bigger picture, much better and much developed, diverse country people need to see.

Edited by kavyasam - 17 October 2012 at 5:14pm

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King-Anu

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Posted: 16 October 2012 at 9:07pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by tannipartner

Originally posted by King-Anu

Originally posted by tannipartner

.

Originally posted by king anu

It was people of certain regions/provinces who wanted a separate state.[/DIV]

King Anu

Donno about Punjab but if u say that anywhere in modern West bengal or Bangladesh u will be torn apart before you finish this sentence. And people irrespective of religion will come together to tear you apart..

There does not exist a person, a mai ka lal, on this universe let along Bangla et al. who would be able to even touch me without my permission let alone "tear me apart". My request to you would be to learn some manners and behave like a civilized person and not a wild animal. And more than that stop speaking for Bengal/Bangladesh and its good people. I doubt they are like you.

And let me say this again.

It was people of certain regions/provinces who wanted a separate state

I am extremely tolerant person and even here I am not reporting you for this nonsense. lol.

I owe you an apology. I got carried away in the heat of the moment and have responded to you rudely. I am sorry to offend you. It was not my intention. I should have framed my response differently.

Here it is:

A huge number of people from Bengal and current Bangladesh, common people, would vehemently oppose your statement that people of certain regions/ provinces wanted separate state. It always were the leaders.

Offcourse you can have a different opinion on that. Thats why it is a debate.

An ill mannered person do not say I agree even to a person on opposite side of team,guess that portion did not come to your attention. But you are free to have your opinion. I am free to have mine.

PS: My apology was for my harsh response and my way of speaking only, I stand by what i tried to convey.

Tannipartner

It was not a figure of speech. I ain't a kid. lol.

And you owe me nothing. You owed yourself a better framweork to debate with others and I am glad that you realized that. I dont want anything else.

Yes we differ. Lets move on.

RTH

When we use people we mean "most" and not "all" or "some". For example people of United States elected Obama. so a) I never said or implied all and b) your point about "some people" is incorrect.

The Indendence Act of 1947 was based on referendum or voting through assemblies and in both situations majority decided and that is what i meant when i said people of certain regions/provinces wanted a separate state. Punjab and Bengal voted through assemblies.

I appreciate your effort to sort this out. lol. Anyway lets end it.

Polki

Sorry I missed your question. lol. Yes I am a King of a state. The state has grand population of 1 person i.e. me lol.

On a serious note, I mentioned that to show Kings are he and not she.

Edited by King-Anu - 16 October 2012 at 9:30pm

return_to_hades

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Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 18192

Posted: 16 October 2012 at 9:32pm | IP Logged

Re-edited: Sometimes you just have to speak out and lay it.

Originally posted by King-Anu

It was not figure of speech. I ain't a kid. lol.

And you owe me nothing. You owed yourself a better framweork to debate with others and I am glad that you realized that. I dont want anything else.

Yes we differ. Lets move on.

To be honest, statements like this are quite ungracious, self righteous and obnoxious.

I've read several times where you say your understanding of English is not strong enough. This here definitely is the prime example of it. Tear apart is indeed a commonly used English idiom. The meaning is not intended to be literal, but figurative. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tear+apart

Originally posted by King-Anu

RTH

when we use people we mean most and not all or some. so a) i never said or implied all and b) your point that some wanted is wrong.

what is right is that indendence act of 1947 was based on referendum and voting through assemblies and in both situation majority decided and that is what i meant when i said people of certain regions/provinces wanted a separate state.

Anyway lets end it.

Your understanding of the Mountbatten Plan does not appear to be comprehensive. Only NW Frontier and Sylhet were to be decided by a referendum. In the case of Punjab and Bengal, only the political leaders in assembly voted. So to state that the people wanted it is in itself incorrect, let alone saying most. The final British line was a British demarcation.

After fifty plus years of independence, we see ourselves as independent sovereign nations. People today view separate nations. It seems natural to have a separatist perception and assume people back in the day had similar hardened perspectives. However, back in the day, whether it was Pakistan, India or Bangladesh most people actually did not desire partition. If you read press coverage of the era both grassroots and international, partition was undesirable, unfortunate and the final act of vandalism by the British before leaving.

Your "lol "and "lets end" it is quite irksome. Grow a pair, If you are serious be serious, if you are joking then joke, and if you want to end a debate, end it!

Edited by return_to_hades - 17 October 2012 at 6:11am

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Beyond_the_Veil

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Posted: 17 October 2012 at 8:06am | IP Logged

'Tearing apart' or 'torn apart' is indeed figurative, and the said member didn't say that he would do it himself or will have a group ready to do that to King-Anu. It was not a threat, more like a practical assumption about what would realistically happen.

If one is willing to start a debate, I believe the person should continue it to the best of his knowledge. No point in starting a chain of conversation to just end it abruptly midways, especially without refuting the opponent's points.

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King-Anu

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Posted: 17 October 2012 at 9:12am | IP Logged

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Re-edited: Sometimes you just have to speak out and lay it.

Originally posted by King-Anu

It was not figure of speech. I ain't a kid. lol.

And you owe me nothing. You owed yourself a better framweork to debate with others and I am glad that you realized that. I dont want anything else.

Yes we differ. Lets move on.

To be honest, statements like this are quite ungracious, self righteous and obnoxious.

Lets understand this. I thought (rightly or wrongly) that Tannipartner did not use appropriate words and told me that I will be 'torn apart" and people will come together to "tear me apart" and instead of fighting I told the member to behave and do not speak for all people. When the member apologized I actually said you do not owe me anything and I do not want an apology either. Instead the fact that you realized your mistake is what matters and I am glad. I believe the best apology is when one realizes own mistakes.

So you are calling such a person ungracious and obnoxious? lol. I don't know what was going through your mind when you made that statement.

I've read several times where you say your understanding of English is not strong enough. This here definitely is the prime example of it. Tear apart is indeed a commonly used English idiom. The meaning is not intended to be literal, but figurative.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tear+apart

Are you a spokeperson for Tannipartner? lol. This is what I got from your link

"to rip someone apart savagely. Max threatened to tear Tom apart"

I do not know what is in ones' heart. The person is not in front of me either. The way that was written does not in anway indicate it was used figuratively. One does not tear apart a sentence before it is finished. People of different sorts do not come together to tear apart a point. It was probably a statement made in anger. If Tannipartner did not mean that then the member needs to come up with a better framework to present a point i.e. what I advised.

I appreciate your input very much but it is between me and that member.

Originally posted by King-Anu

RTH

when we use people we mean most and not all or some. so a) i never said or implied all and b) your point that some wanted is wrong.

what is right is that indendence act of 1947 was based on referendum and voting through assemblies and in both situation majority decided and that is what i meant when i said people of certain regions/provinces wanted a separate state.

Anyway lets end it.

Your understanding of the Mountbatten Plan does not appear to be comprehensive. Only NW Frontier and Sylhet were to be decided by a referendum. In the case of Punjab and Bengal, only the political leaders in assembly voted. So to state that the people wanted it is in itself incorrect, let alone saying most. The final British line was a British demarcation.

Those political leaders were elected and that means they represented people. Today if in India the parliment passes a bill by majority then that reflects the will of the people and not will of "political leaders". This is how a parlimentary system works.

In case of Punjab the westen block voted for keeping Punjab intact and as a part of domain Pakistan while eastern block voted for partition of Punjab and wanted to go in domain India. In case of Bengal the assembly first rejected being an independent unit (i dont remember that part exactly) but then a block consisting of Muslim dominated members voted to keep Bengal intact and go into Pakistan but the other block dominated by non-Muslims voted for partition of Bengal and that then went into India. Such a setup was constructed so that voice of all should be heard and situation of 51-49 does not arise. In any case it was THE MAJORITY that decided.

After fifty plus years of independence, we see ourselves as independent sovereign nations. People today view separate nations. It seems natural to have a separatist perception and assume people back in the day had similar hardened perspectives. However, back in the day, whether it was Pakistan, India or Bangladesh most people actually did not desire partition. If you read press coverage of the era both grassroots and international, partition was undesirable, unfortunate and the final act of vandalism by the British before leaving.

That is incorrect. The denominator here is not all population but people of certain region and provinces and there the majority wanted that.

Your "lol "and "lets end" it is quite irksome. Grow a pair, If you are serious be serious, if you are joking then joke, and if you want to end a debate, end it!

lol. people use

to keep the debate light hearted. I use lol.

I respect you so I am ignoring your other point.lol

Edited by King-Anu - 17 October 2012 at 9:21am

Beyond_the_Veil

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Posted: 17 October 2012 at 9:35am | IP Logged

Originally posted by King-Anu

So you are calling such a person ungracious and obnoxious? lol. I don't know what was going through your mind when you made that statement.

I don't know why you are misconstruing her post. She said such sentences are ungracious and obnoxious.

Originally posted by King-Anu

I appreciate your input very much but it is between me and that member.

You are debating/discussing on a public platform. If you wish to keep this issue between just the two of you and not want others to butt in, then the private messenger might be the better option.

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tannipartner

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Posted: 17 October 2012 at 10:18am | IP Logged

KIng Anu, RTH is not my spokes person. But that does neither nullify whatever she has to say nor her right to butt in. This is an open forum.

I did not want to re-enter this topic, because I thought we ended it. But this statement of yours made me come back.

First off let me get something clear. While I appreciate your concern for me,this is what i wrote. It was harshly constructed yet , by no means did I demean you or attack you personally. Infact I agreed to some extent. Please read the bold red lines since you seem to have overlooked them while reading them last time.

Originally posted by tannipartner

Quite a bit of your info is correct except this line. Don't know which book text, essay or political propaganda you lifted this line from, but bengal province was partitioned along with Punjab. Donno about Punjab but if u say that anywhere in modern West bengal or Bangladesh u will be torn apart before you finish this sentence. And people irrespective of religion will come together to tear you apart.
I may hav eee doubt about your other info but it is correct to some extent. The last line however is most empathetically not..

And this was your response to it.

Originally posted by King-Anu

My request to you would be to learn some manners and behave like a civilized person and not a wild animal.

I am extremely tolerant person and even here I am not reporting you for this nonsense. lol.

Originally posted by King-Anu

If Tannipartner did not mean that then the member needs to come up with a better framework to present a point i.e. what I advised.

**************************************

It was not a figure of speech. I ain't a kid. lol.

And you owe me nothing. You owed yourself a better framweork to debate with others and I am glad that you realized that. I dont want anything else.

Frankly you are in no position to give anyone advice about any debate framework or put lofty claim of your tolerance, Considering how you react back to other people. So I agree fully with RTH here.

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Re-edited: Sometimes you just have to speak out and lay it.
To be honest, statements like this are quite ungracious, self righteous and obnoxious.

So why don't you, King Anu ( not RTH in case someone mistakes with the qoute immediately above) follow your own advice and come up with a better framework to present a point,instead of such miscontruction and aspersions as below?

Originally posted by King-Anu

So you are calling such a person ungracious and obnoxious? lol. I don't know what was going through your mind when you made that statement.

Are you a spokeperson for Tannipartner? lol.

I appreciate your input very much but it is between me and that member.

***********

Originally posted by King-Anu

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tear+apart

"to rip someone apart savagely. Max threatened to tear Tom apart"

I cannot advise you on English language or figure of speeches. But we " tear apart" oppositions defense in legal debate . And it is used quite frequently. And it does not mean tearing the people defending apart. Political debaters, tear the other person apart. The legal councel tore the witness apart.

None of them are literal meaning. Now its upto you to take it or leave it.

[QUOTE=King-Anu]
It was not figure of speech. I ain't a kid. lol.

.

Self explanatory.

************************

Originally posted by King-Anu

I am extremely tolerant person and even here I am not reporting you for this nonsense. lol.

Please feel free to report this nonsense.

Edited by tannipartner - 17 October 2012 at 10:45am

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