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slumgod.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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Aya.

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Aya.

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Posts: 2715

Posted: 24 September 2012 at 4:29pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by UnsolvedMystery

Originally posted by Aya.

Originally posted by Heart

Originally posted by Aya.



There are good & bad people in this world. Blame humanity ! Not religion ! Religion has nothing to do with this ! It's us humans !

Oh the humanity! A certain makes a certain movie which hurts religious sentiments and leads to violent protests. But yes! we should point fingers at the humanity!  

I'm sorry, but is this the first time you've seen protesters protesting violently ?!?!
People protest violently everywhere over jobs, food, school, etc. !!!! Have you not seen how those cops treat those protesters ?!?! Hitting them with their sticks, beating them up, throwing teargas at them ?!?! Really ?!?! Ridiculous !!!!

You claim that you read all the Holy books, but I DOUBT IT !
Because CLEARLY in the Quran, Chapter 5 Verse 32, it says...

"If anyone kills an innocent person it would be as if he killed the whole mankind and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole mankind."

You & others can try so hard to change the verses of the Quran, but the truth is, you won't ever be able to do so, because millions of people memorize the Quran BY HEART !

In which context are you using this statement? The fact that good men like Christopher Steven were killed in the protest? People who had nothing to do with the movie and were in that country to improve relations between the two countries?   

First of all, what does my statement has to do with Christopher Steven ?!
This isn't the first time good people die !!
So many good people died in the war of Iraq, Afganistan, & Palestine !!
Life goes on !!
that mean you are fine with the people dying everyday in name of war? Ask those people who lost their brother, sister, mother, father if lives goes on after their death? How could human be insensible that he or she justify lost of human life as if it is normal. At least have guts to say that human life is not cheap as toilet paper sold on the market. life is precious whether  they are Muslim, christian, Hindu, black ...
I agree with you that video like that should be banned with immediate effect but respect humanity too.

@bold - Did I ever say that ?!

I lost dear ones too ! I respect humanity, but what do you want me to do if someone passes away ?

I am not justifying anything ! All I've ever said is that life goes on even if good people die. There's nothing you can do about it. It's war. Did I say anything wrong in that ?

I believe life goes on even after death. Just because someone dies, it doesn't mean it's over for them. 

Yes, I do have the damn guts to say human life is not cheap as toilet paper sold on the market !

Edit: You've obviously missed out my point in the post.
I was basically trying to say that it isn't just good peope like C.Steven that die.
So many good people die, but no one pays attention to them. 
It's always the famous people that are paid attention to.


Edited by Aya. - 24 September 2012 at 4:34pm

Aya.

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Aya.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 4:59pm | IP Logged
@Rehanism

First, I don't read stuff without understanding it.
Speak of the Quran only. I wasn't talking about the Bible. The Bible has been changed many times. The stories are always different. The story about Cain & Abel are different in the Quran & in the Bible.
The verse wasn't just for Cain & Abel. It was for mankind. 
Anyway, leave that aside. I'm not talking about Cain & Abel nor does the verse has anything to do with it. 

2nd: What's with the believers/disbelievers nonsense ? People are innocent whether they are Muslims or not ! I've only read half of the Quran. If I don't know about something, then I'm obviously not going to bother commenting. It doesn't mean I'm ignoring it. 

3rd: I speak Arabic fluently. Innocent in Arabic is baree'a. It's no different from your secular understanding. No, Innocent in Islam/Arabic does NOT mean faithful/believer. Innocent means innocent whether you're a Muslim or not, whether you follow Islam or not. Period.



Edited by Aya. - 24 September 2012 at 4:59pm

slumgod.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 5:12pm | IP Logged
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Aya.

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Aya.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 5:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by UnsolvedMystery

Originally posted by Aya.

Originally posted by UnsolvedMystery

Originally posted by Aya.

Originally posted by Heart

Originally posted by Aya.



There are good & bad people in this world. Blame humanity ! Not religion ! Religion has nothing to do with this ! It's us humans !

Oh the humanity! A certain makes a certain movie which hurts religious sentiments and leads to violent protests. But yes! we should point fingers at the humanity!  

I'm sorry, but is this the first time you've seen protesters protesting violently ?!?!
People protest violently everywhere over jobs, food, school, etc. !!!! Have you not seen how those cops treat those protesters ?!?! Hitting them with their sticks, beating them up, throwing teargas at them ?!?! Really ?!?! Ridiculous !!!!

You claim that you read all the Holy books, but I DOUBT IT !
Because CLEARLY in the Quran, Chapter 5 Verse 32, it says...

"If anyone kills an innocent person it would be as if he killed the whole mankind and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole mankind."

You & others can try so hard to change the verses of the Quran, but the truth is, you won't ever be able to do so, because millions of people memorize the Quran BY HEART !

In which context are you using this statement? The fact that good men like Christopher Steven were killed in the protest? People who had nothing to do with the movie and were in that country to improve relations between the two countries?   

First of all, what does my statement has to do with Christopher Steven ?!
This isn't the first time good people die !!
So many good people died in the war of Iraq, Afganistan, & Palestine !!
Life goes on !!
that mean you are fine with the people dying everyday in name of war? Ask those people who lost their brother, sister, mother, father if lives goes on after their death? How could human be insensible that he or she justify lost of human life as if it is normal. At least have guts to say that human life is not cheap as toilet paper sold on the market. life is precious whether  they are Muslim, christian, Hindu, black ...
I agree with you that video like that should be banned with immediate effect but respect humanity too.

@bold - Did I ever say that ?!

I lost dear ones too ! I respect humanity, but what do you want me to do if someone passes away ?

I am not justifying anything ! All I've ever said is that life goes on even if good people die. There's nothing you can do about it. It's war. Did I say anything wrong in that ?

I believe life goes on even after death. Just because someone dies, it doesn't mean it's over for them. 

Yes, I do have the damn guts to say human life is not cheap as toilet paper sold on the market !

Edit: You've obviously missed out my point in the post.
I was basically trying to say that it isn't just good peope like C.Steven that die.
So many good people die, but no one pays attention to them. 
It's always the famous people that are paid attention to.
If someone pass away due to the brutality of others . what would you say? I was not talking about people who die of natural cause, I m talking about innocent people who has nothing to do with the video. You have to respect that person's life. 
And when someone is murdered  like that you can atleast voice the concern that  it should not had happened instead of justifying the murder. 



First of all, how the hell am I justifying the murder ? I'm not justifying anything !

I agree that It was messed up. They shouldn't have done that. I've never denied it. 

Of course I respect that person's life. When was I disrespecting them ?

& anyway, my statement had nothing to do with what you're talking about.


Edited by Aya. - 24 September 2012 at 6:14pm

Rehanism

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Rehanism

Joined: 07 August 2010

Posts: 3458

Posted: 24 September 2012 at 11:52pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

@Rehanism

First, I don't read stuff without understanding it.
Speak of the Quran only. I wasn't talking about the Bible. The Bible has been changed many times. The stories are always different. The story about Cain & Abel are different in the Quran & in the Bible.
The verse wasn't just for Cain & Abel. It was for mankind. 
Anyway, leave that aside. I'm not talking about Cain & Abel nor does the verse has anything to do with it. 

2nd: What's with the believers/disbelievers nonsense ? People are innocent whether they are Muslims or not ! I've only read half of the Quran. If I don't know about something, then I'm obviously not going to bother commenting. It doesn't mean I'm ignoring it. 

3rd: I speak Arabic fluently. Innocent in Arabic is baree'a. It's no different from your secular understanding. No, Innocent in Islam/Arabic does NOT mean faithful/believer. Innocent means innocent whether you're a Muslim or not, whether you follow Islam or not. Period.


Then you have no idea of Abrahamic ideology at all...Just because the literal meaning of 'innocent' in Arabic is same as 'innocent' in English (which is obvious! duh), it doesn't mean the theological meaning is same as well. If you think my explanation is flawed or I have manipulated things, you might show my post to any knowledgeable Imam. I had showed you tasfirs..A non-believer is not innocent in the eyes of Allah..because disbelief (or belief in any God other than Allah or besides him) is the worst crime in Islam.

Narrated 'Abdullah:

I asked the Prophet, "What is the greatest sin in the Sight of Allah?" He said, "That you set up a rival** unto Allah though He Alone created you." I said, "That is indeed a great sin."
Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 4

Verse 98.006 : Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun (polytheists) will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

**setting up 'rivals' with Allah literally means worshiping other gods than Allah or besides Allah.



And secondly, the verse is not from Bible and so whether Bible was changed or not is irrelevant..Its from Talmud, the codified commentaries on Biblical laws, from where Muhammad lifted this verse without even understanding its contextual reference to the creation myth and ignorant of the fact that it was not a verse from God but a commentary of Rabbis.

Here is the entire context of the said verse from Talmud in Mishna Sanhedrin:

MISHNA III.: How were the witnesses awestruck in criminal cases? They were brought in and warned: Perhaps your testimony is based only on a supposition, or on hearsay, or on that of another witness, or you have had it from a trustworthy man; or perhaps you are not aware that finally we will investigate the matter by examination and cross-examination. You may also be aware of the fact that there is no similarity between civil and criminal cases. In civil cases one may repay the money damage and he is atoned; but in criminal cases the blood of the person executed, and of his descendants to the end of all generations, clings to the originator of his execution. So do we find in the case of Cain, who slew his brother. It reads [Gen. iv. 10]: "The voice of the 'bloods' of thy brother are crying unto me from the ground." It does not read "blood," but "bloods," which means his blood and the blood of his descendants. [According to others it reads "bloods" in the plural, because his blood was scattered all over the trees and stones.] Therefore the man was created singly, to teach that he who destroys one soul of a human being, the Scripture considers him as if he should destroy a whole world, and him who saves one soul of Israel, the Scripture considers him as if he should save a whole world. And also because of peace among creatures, so that one should not say: My grandfather was greater than yours; and also that the heretic shall not say: There are many creators in heaven; and also to proclaim the glory of the Holy One, blessed be He. For a human being stamps many coins with one stamp, and all of them are alike; but the King of the kings of kings, the Holy One, blessed be He, has stamped every man with the stamp of Adam the First, and nevertheless not one of them is like the other. Therefore every man may say: The world was created for my sake, hence I must be upright, just, etc.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Talmud/sanhedrin4.html

Third, the verse is not meant for entire mankind..It refers only to the Children of Israel, which it clearly mentions (and which you chose to omit)..

5.32 - For this reason We prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land*, it is as though he had killed all men. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved the lives of all men. And certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them commit excesses in the land.

Though we may translate 'Children of Israel' as 'Children of Adam' (since Abrahamic religions originated in Israel) in a way, as some scholars do, but still that hardly makes any difference to non-Muslims.

* mischief in land means blasphemy, apostasy, fornication, homosexuality, adultery, heresy or any other activity in the way of kuffar all of which are capital offense in Islam.


Edited by Rehanism - 25 September 2012 at 8:58am

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Freethinker112

IF-Sizzlerz

Freethinker112

Joined: 16 May 2012

Posts: 13810

Posted: 25 September 2012 at 12:32am | IP Logged
Originally posted by SportsFreak

Freedom of expression should apply to all. today even showing anything related to the holocaust will be banned. A hindu serial that was named hitler didi had to be changed because the authorities in the USA felt that was offensive. You will be jailed in some countries for displaying a neo nazi sign but there is usually no uproar here because we can apply different rules for different groups when it comes to freedom of expression

You really are comparing mass killings, which happened in history, to mythology? And i see there are many videos on YouTube denying holocaust. Google has allowed them too. But, please compare religion to religion. I see people making fun of Christianity and Jesus and other religions too. They are not in a fit, are they? 

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Freethinker112

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Freethinker112

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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 12:33am | IP Logged
Originally posted by SportsFreak

And those photos that are been uploaded here how do we even know they are genuine?

You really wanna go there? Okay then, how do we know Quaran is genuine?

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