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Freedom of expression/Inflaming religious senti's (Page 7)

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return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:23pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

Not going to reply to the rest, since I agree with half of what you said, but @bold please copy & paste the verses.


I'll post the references when I recharge my Nook and can go through my Quran.

Originally posted by Aya.

There are bad & good Muslims out there, but it still isn't right to blame religion.
What you see isn't religion speaking. It is the people who believe in violence, because they were raised in violence. Violence knows no nationality, no religion, no race. It is caused from economic, financial, and political instability.


I think I tried explaining why religion has to take some accountability.

Originally posted by Aya.

& If Muslims are called terrorists, why aren't the KKK called terrorists ?
Why is it just Muslims ?


Any group that uses violence and threats to terrorize groups is called a terrorist. Muslims are not called terrorist. Only those Muslim organizations that resort to and encourage violence are called terrorists. There just happen to be too many of them.

Post Civil Rights era the KKK has been just hot air, no threats or action. When they engage in violence again they will be listed as terrorists. Timothy McVeigh was labeled a terrorist. The IRA was labeled a terrorist organization. LTTE is considered a terrorist organization. Separatist movements in many nations are called terrorists.

There are some idiots who think Muslims = Terrorists. We can deal with those idiots when they come by.



Edited by return_to_hades - 23 September 2012 at 10:23pm

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Freethinker112

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Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

& if he has the forms, you can't take down the video he made about you & your family ?

If I sign a form that says he is allowed to use me and my family in a video and give it to him, why the hell will I ask him to take it down? Signing implies I gave him permission and was okay with it. And if I don't want a video to be made, why will I sign the forms in the first place?

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Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
.

Edited by Aya. - 04 October 2012 at 9:53pm

Freethinker112

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Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:33pm | IP Logged
People blaming the religion are wrong. Not all Muslims are bad nor the Islam is bad(only if it does not condone this activity, otherwise it is wrong. I am not in a position to comment because I haven't read Quaran.) People are wrong and people are bad. But the religion is accountable too. Why? Because people are using that to base and justify their misdeeds. 

Aya.

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Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:34pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Freethinker112

Originally posted by Aya.

& if he has the forms, you can't take down the video he made about you & your family ?

If I sign a form that says he is allowed to use me and my family in a video and give it to him, why the hell will I ask him to take it down? Signing implies I gave him permission and was okay with it. And if I don't want a video to be made, why will I sign the forms in the first place?

I'm not saying use you & your family for REAL in a video ! Like actors playing the role of your mother/father, but it's not your real parents. I know I should have explained more. My mistake.



Edited by Aya. - 23 September 2012 at 10:36pm

Rehanism

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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 12:49am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

@Rehanism

You claim that you read all the Holy books, but I DOUBT IT !
Because CLEARLY in the Quran, Chapter 5 Verse 32, it says...

"If anyone kills an innocent person it would be as if he killed the whole mankind and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole mankind."

You & others can try so hard to change the verses of the Quran, but the truth is, you won't ever be able to do so, because millions of people memorize the Quran BY HEART !

It seems you, like countless others - that includes Bush and Obama - have read those verses without bothering to understand the history, origin or context.

This verse refers to the story of Cain and Abel from Bible. Cain and Abel were two brothers, children of Adam and Eve. On one instance, both offered sacrifices to God but God was more pleased by Abel, which inspired a sense of envy and betrayal in Cain and he killed Abel. Following which God revealed that he cannot kill Cain in retaliation as Cain was the only man alive on earth (and thus killing him would be tantamount to putting an end to mankind), however he banished Cain from the land.


What is even more fascinating about this verse - "he who destroys one soul of a human being, the Scripture considers him as if he should destroy a whole world, and him who saves one soul of Israel, the Scripture considers him as if he should save a whole world" - is that its not there in the Torah. Actually, it was the commentary of Jewish Rabbis of the Torah. But Muhammad, who was illiterate and whose knowledge was limited to oral stories of the Jewish and Christian lores, was incapable of discriminating between Biblical verses and Rabbianic commentaries..He plagiarized both of them invariably and attributed them to his god Allah.

Even if we choose to ignore its history, that would have been a very nice verse indeed, but there's still one little problem - the Islamic interpretation of the word "innocent' is a bit different from our secular understanding. In Islamic/Abrahamic context, "innocent" literally means faithful or believer (i.e. Muslims).

Here's how the commentators have interpreted this verse:


"Because of that, which Cain did, We decreed for the Children of Israel that whoever slays a soul for other than a soul, slain, or for, other than, corruption, committed, in the land, in the way of unbelief, fornication or waylaying and the like, it shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoever saves the life of one, by refraining from slaying, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind ' Ibn 'Abbas said [that the above is meant] in the sense of violating and protecting its [a soul's] sanctity [respectively]. Our messengers have already come to them, that is, to the Children of Israel, with clear proofs, miracles, but after that many of them still commit excesses in the land, overstepping the bounds through disbelief, killing and the like." [Tafsir Al Jalalyn]

"'Sa'id bin Jubayr said, "He who allows himself to shed the blood of a Muslim, is like he who allows shedding the blood of all people. He who forbids shedding the blood of one Muslim, is like he who forbids shedding the blood of all people.'' In addition, Ibn Jurayj said that Al-A'raj said that Mujahid commented on the Ayah, (it would be as if he killed all mankind) "He who kills a believing soul intentionally, Allah makes the Fire of Hell his abode, He will become angry with him, and curse him, and has prepared a tremendous punishment for him, equal to if he had killed all people, his punishment will still be the same.'' Ibn Jurayj said that Mujahid said that the Ayah, (and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.) means, "He who does not kill anyone, then the lives of people are safe from him.'' [Ibn Kathir's Tafsir]


Abrahamic religions divide the world into Believers and Non-Believers..Believers are in God's camp and shall be rewarded with eternal life in heaven and Non-believers belong to Satan's camp and are bound for hell. Disbelief is the worst crime and Disbelievers, far from being "innocent", are the worst creatures in the eyes of Allah and they have two options before themselves - either convert to Islam or accept 2nd class citizenship (aka Dhimmi) under Islamic State. Additionally the punishment for "mischief" - that literally means blasphemy, fornication, homosexuality, adultery, apostasy, heresy or hypocrisy - is death by crucifixion or beheading. I suppose you have not read, or perhaps chosen to ignore, the numerous verses (and their contexts!!) that speak of Allah's hatred of disbelievers and the horrors of hell that await them..

In any case, I was not trying to prove the demonic nature of Islam in my previous posts, I was merely trying to insinuate how those who scream "Death to America", "Europe, your 9/11 is coming" or "Freedom, Go to hell" can do so only because the same Western society gives them that freedom and defends their rights to blurt out all that filth.


Edited by Rehanism - 24 September 2012 at 1:39am

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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 1:26am | IP Logged
And to clarify something, despite my contempt for the Religion of Peace and its blessed Prophet (and the very concept of religion in general), I do not believe all Muslims are terrorists or only Muslims deserve to be called terrorists and I would oppose anyone who says so..There are terrorists and fanatics all over the world - both of religious as well as secular nature. But I do think - and I have strong evidence to back up this claim - that religions and cults have the ability to bring out the worst of humans unlike any thing else.


Edited by Rehanism - 24 September 2012 at 1:37am

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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 1:42am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

I'm not saying use you & your family for REAL in a video ! Like actors playing the role of your mother/father, but it's not your real parents. I know I should have explained more. My mistake.

If it's nothing illegal then what can I do?

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