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Freethinker112

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Freethinker112

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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 12:39am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

Respecting one's religion is more important than respecting a ridiculous decision made by google. 

Why is that so? I find religion ridiculous. Should I have it banned? No. If people have right to religion, people have right to oppose religion. And Google is helping protect that.


Originally posted by Aya.

Also, the video is ILLEGAL, because the actors didn't know what they were doing & one of the actors who played in the movie & who had no idea what she was doing, sued youtube to take down the film. 
The actors have been BETRAYED ! 

If that is the case, then it is illegal and if she proves it in a court, the video will be taken down. I have no problem with that.


Originally posted by Aya.

2nd: You can sue someone for slander. In the movie he slandered Prophet Mohammad !

So basically, the movie is ILLEGAL ! 

The movie was made to piss Muslims off not because of freedom of speech.

That is debatable. But I can't comment because I haven't watched the movie.


Originally posted by Aya.

I don't see what's the big deal here. All they have to do is take down the film & all of this nonsense will stop, but no freedom of speech ! More like freedom of shyt !

Well, there is one more route. People just shut the hell up and let people have their opinions. Why not follow that?
If not, if we are going to be caring for every offence, then I am offended by religions. Should we do away with it?

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Aya.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 10:57am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Freethinker112

Originally posted by Aya.

Respecting one's religion is more important than respecting a ridiculous decision made by google. 

Why is that so? I find religion ridiculous. Should I have it banned? No. If people have right to religion, people have right to oppose religion. And Google is helping protect that.

Google isn't helping anyone or anything. If google had taken down the video, then so many innocent people wouldn't have been killed. 

Originally posted by Aya.

Also, the video is ILLEGAL, because the actors didn't know what they were doing & one of the actors who played in the movie & who had no idea what she was doing, sued youtube to take down the film. 
The actors have been BETRAYED ! 

If that is the case, then it is illegal and if she proves it in a court, the video will be taken down. I have no problem with that.

Well, if she sued youtube, then they should have taken down the video. The actors who played their roles in the movie are her witnesses, since they didn't know what they were doing & everyone knows that already. So again, I don't understand why they aren't taking down the video.


Originally posted by Aya.

2nd: You can sue someone for slander. In the movie he slandered Prophet Mohammad !

So basically, the movie is ILLEGAL ! 

The movie was made to piss Muslims off not because of freedom of speech.

That is debatable. But I can't comment because I haven't watched the movie.

Alright.


Originally posted by Aya.

I don't see what's the big deal here. All they have to do is take down the film & all of this nonsense will stop, but no freedom of speech ! More like freedom of shyt !

Well, there is one more route. People just shut the hell up and let people have their opinions. Why not follow that?
If not, if we are going to be caring for every offence, then I am offended by religions. Should we do away with it?

If I'm not mistaken, you said you are all for peace, humanity, & respect. What has happened to that ? All of a sudden you've changed ? Do you even know what the meaning of those words are ?
If you have nothing nice to say about anyone, then don't say it at all. Keep it to yourself.
There's no need to go out in public, fool others, start a riot, & make a disgusting movie about it. It's not called an opinion. Its called not respecting others.



Edited by Aya. - 25 September 2012 at 11:01am

Aya.

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Aya.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 11:09am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Freethinker112

Originally posted by SportsFreak

And those photos that are been uploaded here how do we even know they are genuine?

You really wanna go there? Okay then, how do we know Quaran is genuine?

The Quran challenges mankind many times to produce, even a simple verse like it. In it's own language of course, which is Arabic. & til now now no one has ever done so. Actually, some have tried, but sadly, they failed. 


Edited by Aya. - 25 September 2012 at 11:09am

Aya.

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Aya.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 11:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism

Originally posted by Aya.

@Rehanism

First, I don't read stuff without understanding it.
Speak of the Quran only. I wasn't talking about the Bible. The Bible has been changed many times. The stories are always different. The story about Cain & Abel are different in the Quran & in the Bible.
The verse wasn't just for Cain & Abel. It was for mankind. 
Anyway, leave that aside. I'm not talking about Cain & Abel nor does the verse has anything to do with it. 

2nd: What's with the believers/disbelievers nonsense ? People are innocent whether they are Muslims or not ! I've only read half of the Quran. If I don't know about something, then I'm obviously not going to bother commenting. It doesn't mean I'm ignoring it. 

3rd: I speak Arabic fluently. Innocent in Arabic is baree'a. It's no different from your secular understanding. No, Innocent in Islam/Arabic does NOT mean faithful/believer. Innocent means innocent whether you're a Muslim or not, whether you follow Islam or not. Period.


Then you have no idea of Abrahamic ideology at all...Just because the literal meaning of 'innocent' in Arabic is same as 'innocent' in English (which is obvious! duh), it doesn't mean the theological meaning is same as well. If you think my explanation is flawed or I have manipulated things, you might show my post to any knowledgeable Imam. I had showed you tasfirs..A non-believer is not innocent in the eyes of Allah..because disbelief (or belief in any God other than Allah or besides him) is the worst crime in Islam.

Narrated 'Abdullah:

I asked the Prophet, "What is the greatest sin in the Sight of Allah?" He said, "That you set up a rival** unto Allah though He Alone created you." I said, "That is indeed a great sin."
Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 4

Verse 98.006 : Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun (polytheists) will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

**setting up 'rivals' with Allah literally means worshiping other gods than Allah or besides Allah.



And secondly, the verse is not from Bible and so whether Bible was changed or not is irrelevant..Its from Talmud, the codified commentaries on Biblical laws, from where Muhammad lifted this verse without even understanding its contextual reference to the creation myth and ignorant of the fact that it was not a verse from God but a commentary of Rabbis.

Here is the entire context of the said verse from Talmud in Mishna Sanhedrin:

MISHNA III.: How were the witnesses awestruck in criminal cases? They were brought in and warned: Perhaps your testimony is based only on a supposition, or on hearsay, or on that of another witness, or you have had it from a trustworthy man; or perhaps you are not aware that finally we will investigate the matter by examination and cross-examination. You may also be aware of the fact that there is no similarity between civil and criminal cases. In civil cases one may repay the money damage and he is atoned; but in criminal cases the blood of the person executed, and of his descendants to the end of all generations, clings to the originator of his execution. So do we find in the case of Cain, who slew his brother. It reads [Gen. iv. 10]: "The voice of the 'bloods' of thy brother are crying unto me from the ground." It does not read "blood," but "bloods," which means his blood and the blood of his descendants. [According to others it reads "bloods" in the plural, because his blood was scattered all over the trees and stones.] Therefore the man was created singly, to teach that he who destroys one soul of a human being, the Scripture considers him as if he should destroy a whole world, and him who saves one soul of Israel, the Scripture considers him as if he should save a whole world. And also because of peace among creatures, so that one should not say: My grandfather was greater than yours; and also that the heretic shall not say: There are many creators in heaven; and also to proclaim the glory of the Holy One, blessed be He. For a human being stamps many coins with one stamp, and all of them are alike; but the King of the kings of kings, the Holy One, blessed be He, has stamped every man with the stamp of Adam the First, and nevertheless not one of them is like the other. Therefore every man may say: The world was created for my sake, hence I must be upright, just, etc.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Talmud/sanhedrin4.html

Third, the verse is not meant for entire mankind..It refers only to the Children of Israel, which it clearly mentions (and which you chose to omit)..

5.32 - For this reason We prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land*, it is as though he had killed all men. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved the lives of all men. And certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them commit excesses in the land.

Though we may translate 'Children of Israel' as 'Children of Adam' (since Abrahamic religions originated in Israel) in a way, as some scholars do, but still that hardly makes any difference to non-Muslims.

* mischief in land means blasphemy, apostasy, fornication, homosexuality, adultery, heresy or any other activity in the way of kuffar all of which are capital offense in Islam.

1st: I've said I have half knowledge. If I don't know something, I'll read the Quran or I'll ask my parents who know more than I. 

2nd: Prophet Mohammad said it's a sin, but you've also forgotten that Allah loves to forgive & accepts repentance anytime, anywhere. 

3rd: I've said speak of the Quran only. Not even the Talmud. I don't believe in the Talmud. I believe in the Quran & the Quran clearly says the verse is for mankind. 

4th: We don't follow Imams. The only people that follow Imams are Shi'as, but in Islam there's no such thing as Shi'a/Sunni. Even some of the Hadiths are made up, but I'm not going to deny the one you posted, because the Quran does talk about how great of a sin it is to set up a rival unto Allah though He Alone Created you.

I don't what to get off topic anymore, so I hope we're done now, because you'll deny the stuff I present to you & I'll deny the stuff that you present to me & we'll just be going in circles.

Peace. 


Edited by Aya. - 25 September 2012 at 11:40am

Rehanism

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Rehanism

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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.


1st: I've said I have half knowledge. If I don't know something, I'll read the Quran or I'll ask my parents who know more than I. 

2nd: Prophet Mohammad said it's a sin, but you've also forgotten that Allah loves to forgive & accepts repentance anytime, anywhere. 

3rd: I've said speak of the Quran only. Not even the Talmud. I don't believe in the Talmud. I believe in the Quran & the Quran clearly says the verse is for mankind. 

4th: We don't follow Imams. The only people that follow Imams are Shi'as, but in Islam there's no such thing as Shi'a/Sunni. Even some of the Hadiths are made up, but I'm not going to deny the one you posted, because the Quran does talk about how great of a sin it is to set up a rival unto Allah though He Alone Created you.

I don't what to get off topic anymore, so I hope we're done now, because you'll deny the stuff I present to you & I'll deny the stuff that you present to me & we'll just be going in circles.

Peace. 

Yes, Allah does accept repentance for the 'sin' of not worshiping him exclusively or worshiping other gods, but then repentance, in Islamic lexicon, literally means conversion to Islam (which is the only religion acceptable to Allah). Which in turn means that non-Muslims are not innocent in Allah's eyes - they remain the worst of sinners unless they become Muslims - which was my point in the first place.

Whether you believe in Torah or Talmud or Quran, that's entirely your personal matter..I merely quoted the source of the verse with its historical text and context, that dates back several centuries before Muhammad..

Peace and liberty to you too..Smile

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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 12:05pm | IP Logged
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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

@Rehanism

Islam is a religion of Peace. It's not an opinion. It's a fact !

There are good & bad people in this world. Blame humanity ! Not religion ! Religion has nothing to do with this ! It's us humans !


You & others can try so hard to change the verses of the Quran, but the truth is, you won't ever be able to do so, because millions of people memorize the Quran BY HEART !

Islam religion of Peace? Really! How come there is in fight between shia, sunni, ahmadiyaas and what not? In what way would say Islam is a religion of peace? I'm yet to find a answer on which Islamic country is peaceful, because all the country i've come across that are Islamic have a lot of tension.

Humanity has a lot to do with religion. In certain parts of the world, it makes humanity violent or even peaceful. It's the teaching in the religion that makes up human (usually) so you argument does not pile up! 

Rehanism

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Posted: 25 September 2012 at 12:11pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

Originally posted by Freethinker112

Originally posted by SportsFreak

And those photos that are been uploaded here how do we even know they are genuine?

You really wanna go there? Okay then, how do we know Quaran is genuine?

The Quran challenges mankind many times to produce, even a simple verse like it. In it's own language of course, which is Arabic. & til now now no one has ever done so. Actually, some have tried, but sadly, they failed. 

This is a very bad logic, you know..I can say the same about any work of literature..Tagore, Wordsworth, Shakespeare, Keats, Shelly..Can anyone produce a work exactly like theirs? I challenge the world to produce another Gitanjali or Gitobitan..If you can't you must accept that Rabindranath Tagore was God!!LOL

Read this:
http://mukto-mona.net/Articles/avijit/produce_a_sura.htm



Edited by Rehanism - 25 September 2012 at 12:13pm

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