Freedom of expression/Inflaming religious senti's - Page 8

This content was originally posted by: SportsFreak

Freedom of expression should apply to all. today even showing anything related to the holocaust will be banned. A hindu serial that was named hitler didi had to be changed because the authorities in the USA felt that was offensive. You will be jailed in some countries for displaying a neo nazi sign but there is usually no uproar here because we can apply different rules for different groups when it comes to freedom of expression

This content was originally posted by: SportsFreak

And those photos that are been uploaded here how do we even know they are genuine?

This content was originally posted by: Aya.

Respecting one's religion is more important than respecting a ridiculous decision made by google. 

This content was originally posted by: Freethinker112

Why is that so? I find religion ridiculous. Should I have it banned? No. If people have right to religion, people have right to oppose religion. And Google is helping protect that.

Google isn't helping anyone or anything. If google had taken down the video, then so many innocent people wouldn't have been killed. 

If that is the case, then it is illegal and if she proves it in a court, the video will be taken down. I have no problem with that.

Well, if she sued youtube, then they should have taken down the video. The actors who played their roles in the movie are her witnesses, since they didn't know what they were doing & everyone knows that already. So again, I don't understand why they aren't taking down the video.

That is debatable. But I can't comment because I haven't watched the movie.

Alright.

Well, there is one more route. People just shut the hell up and let people have their opinions. Why not follow that?

If not, if we are going to be caring for every offence, then I am offended by religions. Should we do away with it?

If I'm not mistaken, you said you are all for peace, humanity, & respect. What has happened to that ? All of a sudden you've changed ? Do you even know what the meaning of those words are ?

If you have nothing nice to say about anyone, then don't say it at all. Keep it to yourself.

There's no need to go out in public, fool others, start a riot, & make a disgusting movie about it. It's not called an opinion. Its called not respecting others.

Edited by Aya. - 11 years ago

This content was originally posted by: Freethinker112

You really wanna go there? Okay then, how do we know Quaran is genuine?

Edited by Aya. - 11 years ago

This content was originally posted by: Rehanism

Then you have no idea of Abrahamic ideology at all...Just because the literal meaning of 'innocent' in Arabic is same as 'innocent' in English (which is obvious! duh), it doesn't mean the theological meaning is same as well. If you think my explanation is flawed or I have manipulated things, you might show my post to any knowledgeable Imam. I had showed you tasfirs..A non-believer is not innocent in the eyes of Allah..because disbelief (or belief in any God other than Allah or besides him) is the worst crime in Islam.

Narrated 'Abdullah:

I asked the Prophet, "What is the greatest sin in the Sight of Allah?" He said, "That you set up a rival** unto Allah though He Alone created you." I said, "That is indeed a great sin."
Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 4

Verse 98.006 : Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun (polytheists) will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

**setting up 'rivals' with Allah literally means worshiping other gods than Allah or besides Allah.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C73ePf_2KVw[/YOUTUBE]

And secondly, the verse is not from Bible and so whether Bible was changed or not is irrelevant..Its from Talmud, the codified commentaries on Biblical laws, from where Muhammad lifted this verse without even understanding its contextual reference to the creation myth and ignorant of the fact that it was not a verse from God but a commentary of Rabbis.

Here is the entire context of the said verse from Talmud in Mishna Sanhedrin:

MISHNA III.: How were the witnesses awestruck in criminal cases? They were brought in and warned: Perhaps your testimony is based only on a supposition, or on hearsay, or on that of another witness, or you have had it from a trustworthy man; or perhaps you are not aware that finally we will investigate the matter by examination and cross-examination. You may also be aware of the fact that there is no similarity between civil and criminal cases. In civil cases one may repay the money damage and he is atoned; but in criminal cases the blood of the person executed, and of his descendants to the end of all generations, clings to the originator of his execution. So do we find in the case of Cain, who slew his brother. It reads [Gen. iv. 10]: "The voice of the 'bloods' of thy brother are crying unto me from the ground." It does not read "blood," but "bloods," which means his blood and the blood of his descendants. [According to others it reads "bloods" in the plural, because his blood was scattered all over the trees and stones.] Therefore the man was created singly, to teach that he who destroys one soul of a human being, the Scripture considers him as if he should destroy a whole world, and him who saves one soul of Israel, the Scripture considers him as if he should save a whole world. And also because of peace among creatures, so that one should not say: My grandfather was greater than yours; and also that the heretic shall not say: There are many creators in heaven; and also to proclaim the glory of the Holy One, blessed be He. For a human being stamps many coins with one stamp, and all of them are alike; but the King of the kings of kings, the Holy One, blessed be He, has stamped every man with the stamp of Adam the First, and nevertheless not one of them is like the other. Therefore every man may say: The world was created for my sake, hence I must be upright, just, etc.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Talmud/sanhedrin4.html

Third, the verse is not meant for entire mankind..It refers only to the Children of Israel, which it clearly mentions (and which you chose to omit)..

5.32 - For this reason We prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land*, it is as though he had killed all men. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved the lives of all men. And certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them commit excesses in the land.

Though we may translate 'Children of Israel' as 'Children of Adam' (since Abrahamic religions originated in Israel) in a way, as some scholars do, but still that hardly makes any difference to non-Muslims.

* mischief in land means blasphemy, apostasy, fornication, homosexuality, adultery, heresy or any other activity in the way of kuffar all of which are capital offense in Islam.

Edited by Aya. - 11 years ago

This content was originally posted by: Aya.

1st: I've said I have half knowledge. If I don't know something, I'll read the Quran or I'll ask my parents who know more than I. 

2nd: Prophet Mohammad said it's a sin, but you've also forgotten that Allah loves to forgive & accepts repentance anytime, anywhere. 

3rd: I've said speak of the Quran only. Not even the Talmud. I don't believe in the Talmud. I believe in the Quran & the Quran clearly says the verse is for mankind. 

4th: We don't follow Imams. The only people that follow Imams are Shi'as, but in Islam there's no such thing as Shi'a/Sunni. Even some of the Hadiths are made up, but I'm not going to deny the one you posted, because the Quran does talk about how great of a sin it is to set up a rival unto Allah though He Alone Created you.

I don't what to get off topic anymore, so I hope we're done now, because you'll deny the stuff I present to you & I'll deny the stuff that you present to me & we'll just be going in circles.

Peace. 

Yes, Allah does accept repentance for the 'sin' of not worshiping him exclusively or worshiping other gods, but then repentance, in Islamic lexicon, literally means conversion to Islam (which is the only religion acceptable to Allah). Which in turn means that non-Muslims are not innocent in Allah's eyes - they remain the worst of sinners unless they become Muslims - which was my point in the first place.

Whether you believe in Torah or Talmud or Quran, that's entirely your personal matter..I merely quoted the source of the verse with its historical text and context, that dates back several centuries before Muhammad..

Peace and liberty to you too..😊

@ Aya: This particular movie may have crossed its line, abused freedom of expression, but what if a non-Muslim is presenting his honest opinions about Islam in proper manner - does he have the right to do it? What if a Muslim have some issues with Islam and decides to speak his mind in proper manner - does he have that right?

Zakir Naik critiques religious texts in his debates, he has spoken his mind against non-Muslims, people who wear "revealing" clothes, against gays and a hell lot more. If he can do that, and (some) Muslims can applaud him for that, then is it not only fair that someone else can do the same to Islam?

Basically, if a person can scrutinize and critique Islam and related issues in an academic and civilized manner, then does the person have the right to speak his mind? (Not badmouth the religion in ludicrous manner, but like in a debate platform?) Or is Islam an untouchable taboo that can't be scrutinized or critiqued at all? If it is so, then why is it okay for Muslims to do the same to other religions?

I'd like to hear your opinion.
Edited by Beyond_the_Veil - 11 years ago

This content was originally posted by: Aya.

@Rehanism

Islam is a religion of Peace. It's not an opinion. It's a fact !

There are good & bad people in this world. Blame humanity ! Not religion ! Religion has nothing to do with this ! It's us humans !

You & others can try so hard to change the verses of the Quran, but the truth is, you won't ever be able to do so, because millions of people memorize the Quran BY HEART !

This content was originally posted by: Aya.

The Quran challenges mankind many times to produce, even a simple verse like it. In it's own language of course, which is Arabic. & til now now no one has ever done so. Actually, some have tried, but sadly, they failed. 

This is a very bad logic, you know..I can say the same about any work of literature..Tagore, Wordsworth, Shakespeare, Keats, Shelly..Can anyone produce a work exactly like theirs? I challenge the world to produce another Gitanjali or Gitobitan..If you can't you must accept that Rabindranath Tagore was God!!😆

Read this:
http://mukto-mona.net/Articles/avijit/produce_a_sura.htm
Edited by Rehanism - 11 years ago