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Pavitra Rishta

Tarred with the same brush! (Page 3)

abhimg Senior Member
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Posted: 06 September 2012 at 7:56am | IP Logged
Janhvi, Clap
Lovely post my dear...
Vitriolic...is the word...and yes, Arjun has culpability too...
 
Very well said...

The following 5 member(s) liked the above post:

ss4123Axiomsoapwatcher1AshlaikaAnAvidReader

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Posted: 07 September 2012 at 8:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Kalapi

Originally posted by soapwatcher1

[QUOTE=Kalapi] Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Kalapi, I posted my answer in the other thread but am pasting it here too :)

"Kalapi, great question and analogy.

Stepping back objectiely, nothing wrong at all in the animal world where baser animal instincts are at work. Ovi's behavior is to be expected if Ovi has not evolved and I don't think her character has, she is very much of an ego-centric selfish child that wants and screams, "mine, mine". And children personify raw emotions with no trappings of "civilized behavior" much like in the animal kingdom.

Janhvi, sory to disappoint you'what is applicable in the animal kingdom is applicable to humans too (for Man is but a glorified animals) and infact mate selections has been shown in many papers to happen in these line: Well if you are interested can do some reading as follows;

http://psyencelab.com/images/Human_Mate_Selection_Theory_An_Integrated_Evolutionary_and_Social_Approach.pdf

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1086/591690?uid=3739808&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101167135451

To an evolutionist, if Ovi selected Arjun just because he appears healthy and capable of reproducing (for the basic instinct of all animals capable of reproduction and continuation of progeny, Purvi selected Arjun (of course subconsciously) for both wealth and healthy for the very same reasons'yea, appears to dry and emotionless'but that is precisely how an evolutionist could look at these 2 case studies

So, the argument that Ovi haven't evolved is baseless, she rather came out strong in this natural selection'..if Ovi screamed 'mine mine' did Purvi 'took' Arjuan away from her. As a sister (if Purvi considered herself one), could she just walk away from Arjun the moment she came to know the truth'how healthy is 2 sisters loving the same man??? In this case, neither sister gave up on the man for sisterly love rather one gave up on her love for her mother and her happiness'let we have been there before'


Kalapi, yes, I am familiar with the theories that a person chooses a mate not for the mate's sake but to procreate and make sure that the next generation (the children) are fit to survive. This is so in the animal kingdom and in real life.
So, yes, scientifically, I do believe that there is a survival of the fittest in all scenarios, at work, in life, in relationships, everywhere. 
 
Ovi has not evolved in that she has not learnt to mask her innate animal instincts, most humans tend to put on at least a fake veneer of sophistication and civilized behavior, Ovi does not.  If she is fitter than Purvi in this race of natural selection, no harm in calling Ovi base or unevolved.  She is primeval in her emotions, maybe desperation (fear of losing her choice of mate) makes her so. 
 
I don't think Purvi ever considered Ovi as her sister same as Ovi never considered Purvi as hers so agree that Purvi gave up on Arjun for Archana's sake, never a question in my mind. 
 
 
In the real world, we don't grab a man just because he is good looking or can provide better. I would tell my daughter to leave well alone a married man, an engaged man or any man in a relationship with another girl. This solely to safeguard her happiness and also to preserve some semblance of "humanness". We do not live in the jungle, we have laws and social norms to keep peace and to co-exist peacefully. Grabbing something because you want it is like shop-lifting. If Ovi had played fair and won Arjun's love, that would be another matter entirely.

In the real world we do girls do marry married man as well as rich men...real life examples are plenty...right...from Bonny Kapoor, to Dharmendra, to Saif Ali khan...the list just goes on and on...here at least Ovi grabbed an unmarried man...and why do you think they were grabbed...not because of good looks or money??? think again, right...think about America's obssession with millionaires and billionaires, don't girls just fall for them...what about Tiger Wood's extramatiatal affair, was is love??...just look around, examples are plenty...
I am not saying it does not happen in real life, murders happen, rapes happen, sadists abound, does not make 'wrongs' right though.  Yes, girls (and guys) are attracted to money and fame in the hopes of bettering their own lives, surviving. So long as they are not encroaching upon another's right or happiness, it is okay.  Do I condone Tiger Woods (not that he cares)?  No.  Do I condone all those starlets that go after married men?  No.  I realize too that the mere fact that some of the world looks askance at such behavior, does not stop the behavior . 
If Arjun can bring himself to forgive Ovi for what she did, latching on to her happiness at the cost of making him lose his, then they will make a blessed pair.

If Arjun had married a girl off the streets who was totally unconnected with this mess and who had no hand in him losing his happiness, I would insist he would have to stand by his marriage vows, forget Purvi and remain true to his wife. A marriage is not a joke. For this very same reason that marriage is not a joke, I would not want him to forgive a girl who has played under-handed tricks, used blackmail to procure him for herself. Not very flattering to her character and not promising for a future together if he ends up with a wife who has no thought for anyone else's happiness even his, except her own."
What underhanded trick did Ovi play, really.???...She gave the same deal to Archu, she didn't take it...was Purvi had a gun on her head for the deal, I didn't see one...It was solely Purvi's decision and her decision alone. Similarly what arjun did for Purvi was his decision alone...he could have just walked away...why didn't he.
There was everything underhanded about it, she did not broadcast her plan to her dad or sister, Tej.  She did not present it to Arjun either for fear of being thought badly, I am sure. Her grandmother and her brother were kept in the dark.
Yes, Arjun and Purvi both could have reacted differently than they did, their reactions were totally under their control.  That is why my original post said Purvi is no different from Ovi and that they are tarred with the same brush and that Arjun is not blameless in this.  There are degrees of blame, just like in negligence cases, they are all three liable and at fault, the contributory factors vary in very slight degrees.
Now, between these 2 people trying to put their individual and very different love for very different reason to the test, do you want Ovi to suffer between the 2 ...Why...Ovi has already went through one rejection before, why should she suffer?? Isn't, Arjun responsibility to walk the talk now...he married her, it is duty and responsibility to work on the marriage both physically and emotionally...it isn't fair on Ovi, if he fails...and couldn't then he fails Purvi too...surely, she didn't want Arjun to marry Ovi just in name...so that she can continue a illegal incest relationship???? Or do you think it is healthy for Arjun now to divorce one sister for the other...as you say, what about those very marital vows???
Do I want Ovi to be happy now merely because Arjun happened to fall in love with someone else before No.  Did I want Arjun to fall in love with Purvi when he was bespoken to Ovi? No, I didn't.  
I am looking at the present circumstance in isolation and independently with no thought given to old happenings.
Do I want Purvi to engage in incest? Definitely not. 
Do I want Arjun to divorce one sister and marry the other?  Heavens.no.  I was against his getting engaged to Ovi even temporarily, to me an engagement, a marriage, is sacrosanct and not to be treated lightly.
Do I want Ovi to be punished for blackmailing? Yes, I definitely do. I want Ovi punished for putting her needs, her happiness before all else (survival of the fittest or not) - and most definitely want her to suffer and be punished for the tricks she played to snare Arjun.  if she had somehow managed to make Arjun fall out of love with Purvi and in love with her fairly, I would have applauded her.  Not now, not after what she did. [/QUOTE]
 
@ red, Kalapi, I have responded in red to the very viable points you have raised. 
 

Janhvi, here is a list of 'emotional blackmails' that happened to date...

1.       Sachu emotionally blackmails Archu, who jumps happily to fulfill his demand. Outcome of his demand, I guess his longings to have a fully functional family to his bio mom..

Audience reaction: not happy that Archu conceded, generally

2.       Purvi emotionally blackmails Ajun to marry Ovi. The person gaining from such act is Archu followed by Sulo for the patch up...

3.       Purvi emotionally blackmails Manav for being there for Kanyadaan as 'baba'. Purvi gains by this this demand, her longings to have a male figure filling that role. Audience reaction, I think mostly neutral,

4.       Archu emotionally blackmails constantly Madhuri to give her 'legal' status of a wife, her son in the process becomes illegitimate. The person who gains most was Vaishu followed by Karanjkar household.  

5.       Archu emotionally blackmailing constantly MAna for Purvi's KAnyadaan. The person gaining from this act if Purvi and Archu (as Manav finally acted as Purvi's dad)

6.       DK emotionally blackmailing Manav to do Purvi's Kanyadaan. Gain here is still Karankjkars and Dk/Arjun, as manav gives formal acceptance and daughter status to Purvi

7.       Ovi emotionally blackmailing first Archana followed by Purvi. Gain here is Ovi and Desmukhs.

So, my question here is if the other blackmails were all over looked (mind you there were all emotional blackmails and the blackmailers were able and sane people knowing exactly what they wanted ), why only put Ovi and Sachu on the guillotine, should we not say all of the above people need to be punished, for each of these people put someone's 'happiness' and their 'need' above some other people, won't you say?? None of these people ever broadcasted their intentions in emotionally blackmailing the 'other' people, they consulted no one, why could they, they are adult and are capable to decide for themselves, as did Sachu and Ovi in this case. Why could they consult anybody?? Won't you agree all these emotional blackmailing was done to gain something at the end and was for some personal fulfillment???? And all involved tricking /making the other people a soft targets and making them work or accepting their demands????  

 
Kalapi, sorry for the late response.  As I said earlier, I was talking of this situation and this situation only in isolation and independently of all others in PR.  Blackmail is blackmail and is wrong, the punishment though has to fit the degree/severity of the crime.  In this instance, as the title itself suggests, I am holding both Ovi and Purvi responsible for the wrong-doing, Ovi for blackmailing Purvi and Purvi for blackmailing Arjun. 
 
A child blackmails a friend, "if you don't play with me, I will not be your friend", that is wrong but does it warrant the same punishment as "I will tear up your homework if you don't let me copy it"?
 
Yes, you are right, in every situation of blackmail, the blackmailer stands to gain and that is why the act (of blackmailing) in the first place.  As for the other examples of blackmail you have cited, they would need an entire new post for my responses. Archana and Purvi asking Manav to do Purvi's kanyadhaan does not constitute blackmail in my mind, merely hounding him to do it is not blackmail.  The Madhuri situation is too far away in the recesses of my brain, I will have to dredge it up to respond sensibly.  DK asked Manav to attend the wedding by pointing out that Manav considered Arjun as his son and Purvi as his daughter and further advised Manav to bring a proper closure to Manav's and Archana's relationship.  How could this be seen in the same light as what Ovi and Sachin did?  It is like equating what my child says 'if you give me rice I won't eat, if you give me pasta, I will" to someone saying  "I will slander you if you don't siign this contract in my favor" at work.  Severity of punishment befits the degrees of crime. 
 
 
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Posted: 07 September 2012 at 8:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by abhimg

Janhvi, Clap
Lovely post my dear...
Vitriolic...is the word...and yes, Arjun has culpability too...
 
Very well said...
 
Thanks, Abhi. I  hold Arjun equally responsible,  Which fool would agree to something like that?
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Posted: 07 September 2012 at 11:29am | IP Logged
Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Originally posted by Kalapi

Originally posted by soapwatcher1

[QUOTE=Kalapi] Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Kalapi, I posted my answer in the other thread but am pasting it here too :)

"Kalapi, great question and analogy.

Stepping back objectiely, nothing wrong at all in the animal world where baser animal instincts are at work. Ovi's behavior is to be expected if Ovi has not evolved and I don't think her character has, she is very much of an ego-centric selfish child that wants and screams, "mine, mine". And children personify raw emotions with no trappings of "civilized behavior" much like in the animal kingdom.

Janhvi, sory to disappoint you'what is applicable in the animal kingdom is applicable to humans too (for Man is but a glorified animals) and infact mate selections has been shown in many papers to happen in these line: Well if you are interested can do some reading as follows;

http://psyencelab.com/images/Human_Mate_Selection_Theory_An_Integrated_Evolutionary_and_Social_Approach.pdf

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1086/591690?uid=3739808&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101167135451

To an evolutionist, if Ovi selected Arjun just because he appears healthy and capable of reproducing (for the basic instinct of all animals capable of reproduction and continuation of progeny, Purvi selected Arjun (of course subconsciously) for both wealth and healthy for the very same reasons'yea, appears to dry and emotionless'but that is precisely how an evolutionist could look at these 2 case studies

So, the argument that Ovi haven't evolved is baseless, she rather came out strong in this natural selection'..if Ovi screamed 'mine mine' did Purvi 'took' Arjuan away from her. As a sister (if Purvi considered herself one), could she just walk away from Arjun the moment she came to know the truth'how healthy is 2 sisters loving the same man??? In this case, neither sister gave up on the man for sisterly love rather one gave up on her love for her mother and her happiness'let we have been there before'


Kalapi, yes, I am familiar with the theories that a person chooses a mate not for the mate's sake but to procreate and make sure that the next generation (the children) are fit to survive. This is so in the animal kingdom and in real life.
So, yes, scientifically, I do believe that there is a survival of the fittest in all scenarios, at work, in life, in relationships, everywhere. 
 
Ovi has not evolved in that she has not learnt to mask her innate animal instincts, most humans tend to put on at least a fake veneer of sophistication and civilized behavior, Ovi does not.  If she is fitter than Purvi in this race of natural selection, no harm in calling Ovi base or unevolved.  She is primeval in her emotions, maybe desperation (fear of losing her choice of mate) makes her so. 
 
I don't think Purvi ever considered Ovi as her sister same as Ovi never considered Purvi as hers so agree that Purvi gave up on Arjun for Archana's sake, never a question in my mind. 
 
 
In the real world, we don't grab a man just because he is good looking or can provide better. I would tell my daughter to leave well alone a married man, an engaged man or any man in a relationship with another girl. This solely to safeguard her happiness and also to preserve some semblance of "humanness". We do not live in the jungle, we have laws and social norms to keep peace and to co-exist peacefully. Grabbing something because you want it is like shop-lifting. If Ovi had played fair and won Arjun's love, that would be another matter entirely.

In the real world we do girls do marry married man as well as rich men...real life examples are plenty...right...from Bonny Kapoor, to Dharmendra, to Saif Ali khan...the list just goes on and on...here at least Ovi grabbed an unmarried man...and why do you think they were grabbed...not because of good looks or money??? think again, right...think about America's obssession with millionaires and billionaires, don't girls just fall for them...what about Tiger Wood's extramatiatal affair, was is love??...just look around, examples are plenty...
I am not saying it does not happen in real life, murders happen, rapes happen, sadists abound, does not make 'wrongs' right though.  Yes, girls (and guys) are attracted to money and fame in the hopes of bettering their own lives, surviving. So long as they are not encroaching upon another's right or happiness, it is okay.  Do I condone Tiger Woods (not that he cares)?  No.  Do I condone all those starlets that go after married men?  No.  I realize too that the mere fact that some of the world looks askance at such behavior, does not stop the behavior . 
If Arjun can bring himself to forgive Ovi for what she did, latching on to her happiness at the cost of making him lose his, then they will make a blessed pair.

If Arjun had married a girl off the streets who was totally unconnected with this mess and who had no hand in him losing his happiness, I would insist he would have to stand by his marriage vows, forget Purvi and remain true to his wife. A marriage is not a joke. For this very same reason that marriage is not a joke, I would not want him to forgive a girl who has played under-handed tricks, used blackmail to procure him for herself. Not very flattering to her character and not promising for a future together if he ends up with a wife who has no thought for anyone else's happiness even his, except her own."
What underhanded trick did Ovi play, really.???...She gave the same deal to Archu, she didn't take it...was Purvi had a gun on her head for the deal, I didn't see one...It was solely Purvi's decision and her decision alone. Similarly what arjun did for Purvi was his decision alone...he could have just walked away...why didn't he.
There was everything underhanded about it, she did not broadcast her plan to her dad or sister, Tej.  She did not present it to Arjun either for fear of being thought badly, I am sure. Her grandmother and her brother were kept in the dark.
Yes, Arjun and Purvi both could have reacted differently than they did, their reactions were totally under their control.  That is why my original post said Purvi is no different from Ovi and that they are tarred with the same brush and that Arjun is not blameless in this.  There are degrees of blame, just like in negligence cases, they are all three liable and at fault, the contributory factors vary in very slight degrees.
Now, between these 2 people trying to put their individual and very different love for very different reason to the test, do you want Ovi to suffer between the 2 ...Why...Ovi has already went through one rejection before, why should she suffer?? Isn't, Arjun responsibility to walk the talk now...he married her, it is duty and responsibility to work on the marriage both physically and emotionally...it isn't fair on Ovi, if he fails...and couldn't then he fails Purvi too...surely, she didn't want Arjun to marry Ovi just in name...so that she can continue a illegal incest relationship???? Or do you think it is healthy for Arjun now to divorce one sister for the other...as you say, what about those very marital vows???
Do I want Ovi to be happy now merely because Arjun happened to fall in love with someone else before No.  Did I want Arjun to fall in love with Purvi when he was bespoken to Ovi? No, I didn't.  
I am looking at the present circumstance in isolation and independently with no thought given to old happenings.
Do I want Purvi to engage in incest? Definitely not. 
Do I want Arjun to divorce one sister and marry the other?  Heavens.no.  I was against his getting engaged to Ovi even temporarily, to me an engagement, a marriage, is sacrosanct and not to be treated lightly.
Do I want Ovi to be punished for blackmailing? Yes, I definitely do. I want Ovi punished for putting her needs, her happiness before all else (survival of the fittest or not) - and most definitely want her to suffer and be punished for the tricks she played to snare Arjun.  if she had somehow managed to make Arjun fall out of love with Purvi and in love with her fairly, I would have applauded her.  Not now, not after what she did. [/QUOTE]
 
@ red, Kalapi, I have responded in red to the very viable points you have raised. 
 

Janhvi, here is a list of 'emotional blackmails' that happened to date...

1.       Sachu emotionally blackmails Archu, who jumps happily to fulfill his demand. Outcome of his demand, I guess his longings to have a fully functional family to his bio mom..

Audience reaction: not happy that Archu conceded, generally

2.       Purvi emotionally blackmails Ajun to marry Ovi. The person gaining from such act is Archu followed by Sulo for the patch up...

3.       Purvi emotionally blackmails Manav for being there for Kanyadaan as 'baba'. Purvi gains by this this demand, her longings to have a male figure filling that role. Audience reaction, I think mostly neutral,

4.       Archu emotionally blackmails constantly Madhuri to give her 'legal' status of a wife, her son in the process becomes illegitimate. The person who gains most was Vaishu followed by Karanjkar household.  

5.       Archu emotionally blackmailing constantly MAna for Purvi's KAnyadaan. The person gaining from this act if Purvi and Archu (as Manav finally acted as Purvi's dad)

6.       DK emotionally blackmailing Manav to do Purvi's Kanyadaan. Gain here is still Karankjkars and Dk/Arjun, as manav gives formal acceptance and daughter status to Purvi

7.       Ovi emotionally blackmailing first Archana followed by Purvi. Gain here is Ovi and Desmukhs.

So, my question here is if the other blackmails were all over looked (mind you there were all emotional blackmails and the blackmailers were able and sane people knowing exactly what they wanted ), why only put Ovi and Sachu on the guillotine, should we not say all of the above people need to be punished, for each of these people put someone's 'happiness' and their 'need' above some other people, won't you say?? None of these people ever broadcasted their intentions in emotionally blackmailing the 'other' people, they consulted no one, why could they, they are adult and are capable to decide for themselves, as did Sachu and Ovi in this case. Why could they consult anybody?? Won't you agree all these emotional blackmailing was done to gain something at the end and was for some personal fulfillment???? And all involved tricking /making the other people a soft targets and making them work or accepting their demands????  

 
Kalapi, sorry for the late response.  As I said earlier, I was talking of this situation and this situation only in isolation and independently of all others in PR.  Blackmail is blackmail and is wrong, the punishment though has to fit the degree/severity of the crime.  In this instance, as the title itself suggests, I am holding both Ovi and Purvi responsible for the wrong-doing, Ovi for blackmailing Purvi and Purvi for blackmailing Arjun. 
 
A child blackmails a friend, "if you don't play with me, I will not be your friend", that is wrong but does it warrant the same punishment as "I will tear up your homework if you don't let me copy it"?
 
Yes, you are right, in every situation of blackmail, the blackmailer stands to gain and that is why the act (of blackmailing) in the first place.  As for the other examples of blackmail you have cited, they would need an entire new post for my responses. Archana and Purvi asking Manav to do Purvi's kanyadhaan does not constitute blackmail in my mind, merely hounding him to do it is not blackmail.  The Madhuri situation is too far away in the recesses of my brain, I will have to dredge it up to respond sensibly.  DK asked Manav to attend the wedding by pointing out that Manav considered Arjun as his son and Purvi as his daughter and further advised Manav to bring a proper closure to Manav's and Archana's relationship.  How could this be seen in the same light as what Ovi and Sachin did?  It is like equating what my child says 'if you give me rice I won't eat, if you give me pasta, I will" to someone saying  "I will slander you if you don't siign this contract in my favor" at work.  Severity of punishment befits the degrees of crime. 
 
 
 

Janhvi, let agree to disagree, for I beg to differ.

What did Ovi really do? She wanted Arjun as she loved him and was engaged to him. Her want was absolute and she went for it with determination, wrong?? She made the same deal with Archana, but she didn't agree. She found another target in Purvi, who agree. Purvi needn't have agreed, she could have walked, but she didn't. Infact she planned Ovi?arjun's marriage meticulously for 2 days while she was following all the rituals...So, don't you think, pUrvi took a conscious decision here.

Look around yourself. When a new product comes out, many companies pursue and the company with the best offer and best negotiation strategy wins. You will say, KAlapi, but companies are not human beings; they don't have feelings, so what??? Yes, Ovi only cared about her own feeling and need. So, what is wrong if she didn't want to sacrifice...she just look the deal not caring about how Purvi/Arjun were in it...nothing I think...if both Purvi/Arjun cared for each other, she could have be the bone anyway, so why blame her, she just asked for what she wanted and got it...t is easy to blame anyone else other then the people who really took all the decisions and made all the phone calls...You will say Arjun didn't love her, so why Did Ovi want to marry him, hold that thought right there...

Now Purvi was the one who was in the 'active relationship' with Arjun. It was she who made promised to him and had the eyelocks and said, 'Arjun, you are my life". But even after all the promised of love and life together, She could gift him, gift-wrapped. If Purvi can do it, why couldn't Ovi take it. She was putting a gun on her head. In fact, she was in the process of a second suicide attempt...so, how is she responsible and was the 'bad' blackmailer...she blackmailed yes, but was she on a shooting spree, I ask??? Rather she was in the process of Suicide..

And as regard to Arjun. His stupid comment was that Purvi didn't give him time to think, think what, if I may ask. He didn't want to walk out, if you ask me. Because, at that heat of the moment he was hell bent in proving his love to his love and if fact, agreed to marry a person, who he didn't love. So, how is he different from Ovi. Ovi married Arjun, because she loved him and Arjun married Ovi who he didn't love, but married anyway to prove his love to someone else'..

Now, don't you think Arjun and Purvi is at fault and not Ovi at all. I am not a Arvi fan, nor a Ovi fan, I criticize all as I see from my POV...



Edited by Kalapi - 07 September 2012 at 11:40am
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Posted: 07 September 2012 at 11:36am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Kalapi

Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Originally posted by Kalapi

Originally posted by soapwatcher1

[QUOTE=Kalapi] Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Kalapi, I posted my answer in the other thread but am pasting it here too :)

"Kalapi, great question and analogy.

Stepping back objectiely, nothing wrong at all in the animal world where baser animal instincts are at work. Ovi's behavior is to be expected if Ovi has not evolved and I don't think her character has, she is very much of an ego-centric selfish child that wants and screams, "mine, mine". And children personify raw emotions with no trappings of "civilized behavior" much like in the animal kingdom.

Janhvi, sory to disappoint you'what is applicable in the animal kingdom is applicable to humans too (for Man is but a glorified animals) and infact mate selections has been shown in many papers to happen in these line: Well if you are interested can do some reading as follows;

http://psyencelab.com/images/Human_Mate_Selection_Theory_An_Integrated_Evolutionary_and_Social_Approach.pdf

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1086/591690?uid=3739808&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101167135451

To an evolutionist, if Ovi selected Arjun just because he appears healthy and capable of reproducing (for the basic instinct of all animals capable of reproduction and continuation of progeny, Purvi selected Arjun (of course subconsciously) for both wealth and healthy for the very same reasons'yea, appears to dry and emotionless'but that is precisely how an evolutionist could look at these 2 case studies

So, the argument that Ovi haven't evolved is baseless, she rather came out strong in this natural selection'..if Ovi screamed 'mine mine' did Purvi 'took' Arjuan away from her. As a sister (if Purvi considered herself one), could she just walk away from Arjun the moment she came to know the truth'how healthy is 2 sisters loving the same man??? In this case, neither sister gave up on the man for sisterly love rather one gave up on her love for her mother and her happiness'let we have been there before'


Kalapi, yes, I am familiar with the theories that a person chooses a mate not for the mate's sake but to procreate and make sure that the next generation (the children) are fit to survive. This is so in the animal kingdom and in real life.
So, yes, scientifically, I do believe that there is a survival of the fittest in all scenarios, at work, in life, in relationships, everywhere. 
 
Ovi has not evolved in that she has not learnt to mask her innate animal instincts, most humans tend to put on at least a fake veneer of sophistication and civilized behavior, Ovi does not.  If she is fitter than Purvi in this race of natural selection, no harm in calling Ovi base or unevolved.  She is primeval in her emotions, maybe desperation (fear of losing her choice of mate) makes her so. 
 
I don't think Purvi ever considered Ovi as her sister same as Ovi never considered Purvi as hers so agree that Purvi gave up on Arjun for Archana's sake, never a question in my mind. 
 
 
In the real world, we don't grab a man just because he is good looking or can provide better. I would tell my daughter to leave well alone a married man, an engaged man or any man in a relationship with another girl. This solely to safeguard her happiness and also to preserve some semblance of "humanness". We do not live in the jungle, we have laws and social norms to keep peace and to co-exist peacefully. Grabbing something because you want it is like shop-lifting. If Ovi had played fair and won Arjun's love, that would be another matter entirely.

In the real world we do girls do marry married man as well as rich men...real life examples are plenty...right...from Bonny Kapoor, to Dharmendra, to Saif Ali khan...the list just goes on and on...here at least Ovi grabbed an unmarried man...and why do you think they were grabbed...not because of good looks or money??? think again, right...think about America's obssession with millionaires and billionaires, don't girls just fall for them...what about Tiger Wood's extramatiatal affair, was is love??...just look around, examples are plenty...
I am not saying it does not happen in real life, murders happen, rapes happen, sadists abound, does not make 'wrongs' right though.  Yes, girls (and guys) are attracted to money and fame in the hopes of bettering their own lives, surviving. So long as they are not encroaching upon another's right or happiness, it is okay.  Do I condone Tiger Woods (not that he cares)?  No.  Do I condone all those starlets that go after married men?  No.  I realize too that the mere fact that some of the world looks askance at such behavior, does not stop the behavior . 
If Arjun can bring himself to forgive Ovi for what she did, latching on to her happiness at the cost of making him lose his, then they will make a blessed pair.

If Arjun had married a girl off the streets who was totally unconnected with this mess and who had no hand in him losing his happiness, I would insist he would have to stand by his marriage vows, forget Purvi and remain true to his wife. A marriage is not a joke. For this very same reason that marriage is not a joke, I would not want him to forgive a girl who has played under-handed tricks, used blackmail to procure him for herself. Not very flattering to her character and not promising for a future together if he ends up with a wife who has no thought for anyone else's happiness even his, except her own."
What underhanded trick did Ovi play, really.???...She gave the same deal to Archu, she didn't take it...was Purvi had a gun on her head for the deal, I didn't see one...It was solely Purvi's decision and her decision alone. Similarly what arjun did for Purvi was his decision alone...he could have just walked away...why didn't he.
There was everything underhanded about it, she did not broadcast her plan to her dad or sister, Tej.  She did not present it to Arjun either for fear of being thought badly, I am sure. Her grandmother and her brother were kept in the dark.
Yes, Arjun and Purvi both could have reacted differently than they did, their reactions were totally under their control.  That is why my original post said Purvi is no different from Ovi and that they are tarred with the same brush and that Arjun is not blameless in this.  There are degrees of blame, just like in negligence cases, they are all three liable and at fault, the contributory factors vary in very slight degrees.
Now, between these 2 people trying to put their individual and very different love for very different reason to the test, do you want Ovi to suffer between the 2 ...Why...Ovi has already went through one rejection before, why should she suffer?? Isn't, Arjun responsibility to walk the talk now...he married her, it is duty and responsibility to work on the marriage both physically and emotionally...it isn't fair on Ovi, if he fails...and couldn't then he fails Purvi too...surely, she didn't want Arjun to marry Ovi just in name...so that she can continue a illegal incest relationship???? Or do you think it is healthy for Arjun now to divorce one sister for the other...as you say, what about those very marital vows???
Do I want Ovi to be happy now merely because Arjun happened to fall in love with someone else before No.  Did I want Arjun to fall in love with Purvi when he was bespoken to Ovi? No, I didn't.  
I am looking at the present circumstance in isolation and independently with no thought given to old happenings.
Do I want Purvi to engage in incest? Definitely not. 
Do I want Arjun to divorce one sister and marry the other?  Heavens.no.  I was against his getting engaged to Ovi even temporarily, to me an engagement, a marriage, is sacrosanct and not to be treated lightly.
Do I want Ovi to be punished for blackmailing? Yes, I definitely do. I want Ovi punished for putting her needs, her happiness before all else (survival of the fittest or not) - and most definitely want her to suffer and be punished for the tricks she played to snare Arjun.  if she had somehow managed to make Arjun fall out of love with Purvi and in love with her fairly, I would have applauded her.  Not now, not after what she did. [/QUOTE]
 
@ red, Kalapi, I have responded in red to the very viable points you have raised. 
 

Janhvi, here is a list of 'emotional blackmails' that happened to date...

1.       Sachu emotionally blackmails Archu, who jumps happily to fulfill his demand. Outcome of his demand, I guess his longings to have a fully functional family to his bio mom..

Audience reaction: not happy that Archu conceded, generally

2.       Purvi emotionally blackmails Ajun to marry Ovi. The person gaining from such act is Archu followed by Sulo for the patch up...

3.       Purvi emotionally blackmails Manav for being there for Kanyadaan as 'baba'. Purvi gains by this this demand, her longings to have a male figure filling that role. Audience reaction, I think mostly neutral,

4.       Archu emotionally blackmails constantly Madhuri to give her 'legal' status of a wife, her son in the process becomes illegitimate. The person who gains most was Vaishu followed by Karanjkar household.  

5.       Archu emotionally blackmailing constantly MAna for Purvi's KAnyadaan. The person gaining from this act if Purvi and Archu (as Manav finally acted as Purvi's dad)

6.       DK emotionally blackmailing Manav to do Purvi's Kanyadaan. Gain here is still Karankjkars and Dk/Arjun, as manav gives formal acceptance and daughter status to Purvi

7.       Ovi emotionally blackmailing first Archana followed by Purvi. Gain here is Ovi and Desmukhs.

So, my question here is if the other blackmails were all over looked (mind you there were all emotional blackmails and the blackmailers were able and sane people knowing exactly what they wanted ), why only put Ovi and Sachu on the guillotine, should we not say all of the above people need to be punished, for each of these people put someone's 'happiness' and their 'need' above some other people, won't you say?? None of these people ever broadcasted their intentions in emotionally blackmailing the 'other' people, they consulted no one, why could they, they are adult and are capable to decide for themselves, as did Sachu and Ovi in this case. Why could they consult anybody?? Won't you agree all these emotional blackmailing was done to gain something at the end and was for some personal fulfillment???? And all involved tricking /making the other people a soft targets and making them work or accepting their demands????  

 
Kalapi, sorry for the late response.  As I said earlier, I was talking of this situation and this situation only in isolation and independently of all others in PR.  Blackmail is blackmail and is wrong, the punishment though has to fit the degree/severity of the crime.  In this instance, as the title itself suggests, I am holding both Ovi and Purvi responsible for the wrong-doing, Ovi for blackmailing Purvi and Purvi for blackmailing Arjun. 
 
A child blackmails a friend, "if you don't play with me, I will not be your friend", that is wrong but does it warrant the same punishment as "I will tear up your homework if you don't let me copy it"?
 
Yes, you are right, in every situation of blackmail, the blackmailer stands to gain and that is why the act (of blackmailing) in the first place.  As for the other examples of blackmail you have cited, they would need an entire new post for my responses. Archana and Purvi asking Manav to do Purvi's kanyadhaan does not constitute blackmail in my mind, merely hounding him to do it is not blackmail.  The Madhuri situation is too far away in the recesses of my brain, I will have to dredge it up to respond sensibly.  DK asked Manav to attend the wedding by pointing out that Manav considered Arjun as his son and Purvi as his daughter and further advised Manav to bring a proper closure to Manav's and Archana's relationship.  How could this be seen in the same light as what Ovi and Sachin did?  It is like equating what my child says 'if you give me rice I won't eat, if you give me pasta, I will" to someone saying  "I will slander you if you don't siign this contract in my favor" at work.  Severity of punishment befits the degrees of crime. 
 
 
 

Janhvi, let agree to disagree, for I beg to differ.

What did Ovi really do? She wanted Arjun as she loved him and was engaged to him. Her want was absolute and she went for it with determinbation, wrong?? She made the same deal with Archana, but she didn't agree. She found another target in Purvi, who agree. Purvi needn't have agreed, she could have walked, but she didn't. Infact she planned Ovi?arjun's marriage metriculously for 2 days while she was following all the rituals'So, don't you think< pUrvi took a conscious decision here.

Look around yourself. When a new product comes out, many companies pursue and the company with the best offer and best negotiation strategy wins. You will say, KAlapi, but companies are not human beings; they don't have feelings, so what??? Yes, Ovi only cared about her own feeling and need. So, what is wrong if she didn't want to sacrifice...she just look the deal not caring about how Purvi/Arjun were in it'nothing I think'if both Purvi/Arjun cared for each other, she could have be the bone anyway, so why blame her, she just asked for what she wanted and got it'it is easy to blame anyone else other then the people who really took all the decisions and made all the phone calls'You will say Arjun didn't love her, so why Did Ovi want to marry him, hold that thought right there'

Now Purvi was the one who was in the 'active relationship' with Arjun. It was she who made promised to him and had the eyelocjs and said, 'Arjun, you are my life". But even after all the promised of love and life together, She could gift him, gift-wrapped. If Purvi can do it, why couldn't Ovi take it. She was putting a gun on her head. In fact, she was in the process of a second suicide attempt'.so, how is she responsible and was the 'bad' blackmailer'she blackmailed yes, but was she on a shooting spree, I ask??? Rather she was in the process of Suicide..

And as regard to Arjun. His stupid comment was that Purvi didn't give him time to think, think what, if I may ask. He didn't want to walk out, if you ask me. Because, at that heat of the moment he was hell bent in proving his love to his love and if fact, agreed to marry a person, who he didn't love. So, how is he different from Ovi. Ovi married Arjun, because she loved him and Arjun married Ovi who he didn't love, but married anyway to prove his love to someone else'..

Now, don't you think Arjun and Purvi is at fault and not Ovi at all. I am not a Arvi fan, nor a Ovi fan, I criticize all as I see from my POV'

 
Dear Kalapi, I am not exonerating Purvi at all, quite the contrary, and as for Arjun, he is an idiot of the first order, pardon the expression. 
 
Again, as my title says Ovi and Purvi are both at fault, equally.  I never said Ovi is at fault for wanting Arjun nor did I say Purvi is at fault for wanting to ensure her mother's happiness.  Wanting is not a crime, going about procuring what you desire the wrong way (goes for both girls) especially bartering a human like a commodity is wrong. 
 
If you are going to say Ovi is not at fault at all, yes, I will beg to differ.  If you agree both girls are at fault, then we are both on the same page. 

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