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Iss Pyaar Ko Kya Naam Doon
Iss Pyaar Ko Kya Naam Doon

Love, Sacrifice and The Raizadas (Page 3)

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Posted: 04 September 2012 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by stafhtad

Originally posted by AyeReKhushi

Amazing and insightful post LadyLa!

Arnav's love for Anjali is unconditional.
Khushi's love for Arnav is unconditional.
Anjali's love for Shyam is unconditional.  

I want someone to give that unconditional love to Khushi, that she gives to everyone else. They have all failed her at some point...not just Arnav but her own family who said she's not their blood, after she has done more for them than their so-called biological daughter. It's sad.

As for the Raizadas, no question that they cannot see past each other's pain. It upset me that it was so easy for Arnav to see his sister's pain and cry for her...even though none of it was his fault. Khushi's pain was his fault...yet he didn't show that much remorse for her when he discovered her innocence. This after the year long of pain and accusations he hurled at her. Its a shame he can't see her pain. He didn't treat her pain with the same sensitivity, rather he forced her back into his house in his usual arrogant way.
I am in the mood to disagree with a friend.  You get to be lucky one Priyanka.
Now stop rolling your eyes and start sharpening your claws.Tongue
 
Arnav does not know how to love anyone including his own Di.  Love doesnt mean, mouthing I will not let anything happen to you and then keep life changing secrets and withhold important information from his precious Di, with which she could have made different decisions.  So CVs have failed in showing his unconditional love.
 
Kushi does not know how to love herself and hence her love for anyone else is in my opinion, seeking validation from people who reject her or seem to reject her.  If she really loved Arnav unconditionally CVs would have shown her have a heart to heart about all he went through with his Di so she is informed, she would tell Arnav what all she went through at the hands of Shyam and she would tell what all Arnav and she went through with her parents.  If she did that, she would be giving a chance for her love for Arnav grow not only inside her heart, but she would be helping avoid lot of heartache for him as well.  Again flawed characterisation.  What they show her have is animal attraction.  I have not seen anything that Arnav did for her, for her to love him unconditionally.  Call me old fashioned or new sadist, but I do not see any unconditional love from her.  All I see is rolling over letting everyone walk over her.  That is not love, but yearning to be accepted.
 
I do not want to touch Anjali as that is character reel or real that I can never wrap my head around.  I never sympathised with her and never will and she does not know the meaning of life or love. 
 
Am I really disagreeing.  yes DAMMIT.  I need to disagree.  And you get the honors.TongueWink


So so true, Staf.

One cannot love another, even unconditionally, unless one can love oneself.

Also, one cannot love someone and treat them as idiots.
If one perceives the other person as weak, unable to think for themselves, totally useless in a crisis, etc, then that is not true love. That is simply liking being 'needed' or liking the feeling of being 'important to someone'.
Stronger people also do have that need,

But, love?
Love wants the best for the other person and assists them in achieving that goal.
Love does not bind - forcibly or otherwise, nor does it rely solely on physical chemistry and attraction.

Jayne

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Posted: 04 September 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by stafhtad

Originally posted by AyeReKhushi

Amazing and insightful post LadyLa!

Arnav's love for Anjali is unconditional.
Khushi's love for Arnav is unconditional.
Anjali's love for Shyam is unconditional.  

I want someone to give that unconditional love to Khushi, that she gives to everyone else. They have all failed her at some point...not just Arnav but her own family who said she's not their blood, after she has done more for them than their so-called biological daughter. It's sad.

As for the Raizadas, no question that they cannot see past each other's pain. It upset me that it was so easy for Arnav to see his sister's pain and cry for her...even though none of it was his fault. Khushi's pain was his fault...yet he didn't show that much remorse for her when he discovered her innocence. This after the year long of pain and accusations he hurled at her. Its a shame he can't see her pain. He didn't treat her pain with the same sensitivity, rather he forced her back into his house in his usual arrogant way.
I am in the mood to disagree with a friend.  You get to be lucky one Priyanka.
Now stop rolling your eyes and start sharpening your claws.Tongue
 
Arnav does not know how to love anyone including his own Di.  Love doesnt mean, mouthing I will not let anything happen to you and then keep life changing secrets and withhold important information from his precious Di, with which she could have made different decisions.  So CVs have failed in showing his unconditional love.
 
Kushi does not know how to love herself and hence her love for anyone else is in my opinion, seeking validation from people who reject her or seem to reject her.  If she really loved Arnav unconditionally CVs would have shown her have a heart to heart about all he went through with his Di so she is informed, she would tell Arnav what all she went through at the hands of Shyam and she would tell what all Arnav and she went through with her parents.  If she did that, she would be giving a chance for her love for Arnav grow not only inside her heart, but she would be helping avoid lot of heartache for him as well.  Again flawed characterisation.  What they show her have is animal attraction.  I have not seen anything that Arnav did for her, for her to love him unconditionally.  Call me old fashioned or new sadist, but I do not see any unconditional love from her.  All I see is rolling over letting everyone walk over her.  That is not love, but yearning to be accepted.
 
I do not want to touch Anjali as that is character reel or real that I can never wrap my head around.  I never sympathised with her and never will and she does not know the meaning of life or love. 
 
Am I really disagreeing.  yes DAMMIT.  I need to disagree.  And you get the honors.TongueWink
 
Loopy, I agree with you. Somewhere somehow I believe the writers of this show have no clue about what they are writing and trying to sell as love.
Atleast they have not developed the story to show an emotinal connection between Arnav and Khushi and falling and catching, long eyes locks and manhandling and hving hissy fits does not comprise of evoking love between two people.
 
The show is very falsey with regards to showcasing love in my opinion. It has very narrow stand points of love.
 

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Posted: 04 September 2012 at 4:20pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by stafhtad

I am in the mood to disagree with a friend.  You get to be lucky one Priyanka.
Now stop rolling your eyes and start sharpening your claws.Tongue
 
Arnav does not know how to love anyone including his own Di.  Love doesnt mean, mouthing I will not let anything happen to you and then keep life changing secrets and withhold important information from his precious Di, with which she could have made different decisions.  So CVs have failed in showing his unconditional love.
 
Kushi does not know how to love herself and hence her love for anyone else is in my opinion, seeking validation from people who reject her or seem to reject her.  If she really loved Arnav unconditionally CVs would have shown her have a heart to heart about all he went through with his Di so she is informed, she would tell Arnav what all she went through at the hands of Shyam and she would tell what all Arnav and she went through with her parents.  If she did that, she would be giving a chance for her love for Arnav grow not only inside her heart, but she would be helping avoid lot of heartache for him as well.  Again flawed characterisation.  What they show her have is animal attraction.  I have not seen anything that Arnav did for her, for her to love him unconditionally.  Call me old fashioned or new sadist, but I do not see any unconditional love from her.  All I see is rolling over letting everyone walk over her.  That is not love, but yearning to be accepted.
 
I do not want to touch Anjali as that is character reel or real that I can never wrap my head around.  I never sympathised with her and never will and she does not know the meaning of life or love. 
 
Am I really disagreeing.  yes DAMMIT.  I need to disagree.  And you get the honors.TongueWink

Hug

You've gone all profound on me Loopy...made me speechless! Hugs to you darling, this is a very thoughtful post.

I don't mind if we disagree about the other two but not Khushi...come on!

Okay I will still defend my stance on Khushi's unconditional love for Arnav...he judged her from day one, abused her, hurt her, blackmailed her, disrespected her, never gave her any explanation for why he's a monster to her...yet when his life was in danger, she didn't think twice before putting her own life on the line to save him. It is true that she doesn't love herself...as much as she loves him! She is willing to do anything, even kill herself (remember that dreadful plot where she was ready to jump off the cliff) for his happiness. She's crazy and out there but when it comes to him, her love is pure and unconditional. As is her love for her family and others, whatever she does for them is from her heart. She never expects anything in return as she doesn't have a selfish bone in her body. I just want her to be loved the same way. I agree she should inform his Di but that's just her not using her brains (what else is new). I can't question her love for him.


Edited by AyeReKhushi - 04 September 2012 at 4:23pm

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Posted: 04 September 2012 at 4:21pm | IP Logged
Updated on Pg 1

off to bed nowSleepy

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Posted: 04 September 2012 at 4:26pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Jayne

Very nicely put, La.

I do think you have hit on the crux of the story.
In fact, the core of all Indian Soaps.
If it isn't a tear-jerker with enough 'Indian' sacrifice - read, woman giving up her life, symbolically as well as literally - it isn't Soap.

Now how to make that sacrifice stand out amongst so many other sacrifices of putting up with *sshole husbands, fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters, family members, MILs, FILs, DILs, SILs, BILs, bosses, friends, etc.?

Why, lets do a bait and switch!
Star-crossed love!
Arnav and Khushi.

Wait. Wha...

Arnav and Anjuli?

Ms.Gul Khan has herself informed us - via interviews - that Anjuli is very damaged.
We get that.
In fact, we got that within one month of IPK airing. All that touchy-feely with Arnav was frankly nauseous; but we tied a red bow on it and called it 'Aww..., Anjuli is so sweet."

But isn't sacrifice the name of the game?
And what could produce more angst, pain, and heartbreak for every viewer than having the apple of their eye - ASR - be in the throes of agony over sacrificing his love and his very own life?

What's new, you ask?
Why, that the sacrificial lamb is ASR! A man! Not the usual woman.

What about Khushi, you say?
She was never a lead, so she does not matter. She was the comic relief and the punching bag, and like the dumb blonde in every cheap horror flick, she got axed.
No sweat.

-----------
When a show presents a the premise of a problem - a damaged Anjuli - the general outlook for that show would be the treatment and 'normal' mode establishment for the damaged person.
Clearly, the idea of treatment has never occurred to the CVs or the PH.
Why?
Because they do not see Anjuli as having a problem.

Ms. Gul Khan might state that Anjuli is damaged, but to her and the CVs mind, that's just the way she is; and by throwing in a few (sickeningly) sweet smiles and moves, we have to take her just as she is.

We might be persuaded to feel sorry for Anjuli but for the fact that she is the kind of insidious 'destroyer' of whom we each have at least one in all our families.
The one who is good, kind, generous, and sweet.
Yet, also clingy, needy, incapable of living independently (without support or family), and greatly self-centered.
This person is not selfish. They will share all they have and willingly.
Its just that the entire world (and their family) must revolve only around them.
They never see it as thus, though. And neither do the family members.

To the family and friends:
Such people are just 'having a rough time'... 'going through a hard patch'... 'suffered a lot in the past'... 'beginning to work towards a normal life'... 'needing support from those around because they are suffering'... 'facing trying times'...etc.

Nobody ever cottons to the fact that these scenarios are perpetual with no end date in sight.
As is the case with Anjuli.

Such people will find 'tragedy' anywhere in their life. If her parents had not committed suicide, Anjuli would have found something else that made her 'suffer' and be damaged.
It is a personality trait, the way one can be a go-getter or easy-going.

Such parasitic people live with us everyday, even in our homes.
And we love them.
Because it is hard to hate someone who is good and kind and generous, etc.
But it is easy to resent them. Eventually.
And they invite this themselves by sheer dint of their parasitic personality.

Will Arnav ever resent Anjuli?
No.
Because by making his character the younger brother and exposed to the same tragedy, the CVs have bound him tight to the bosom of a sister he cannot ever leave, unless she lets him go.
Which she never will.
She is sweet and good and generous, but she does not recognize her clinging and needy nature for what it is.
Arnav does, but gives it all the 'explanations' - read, excuses after 15 years and a marriage! - outlined above.
When a problem does not exist for someone, how do they solve it?

Aha! But this is a problem for mature, rational people.
For Soap land, Arnav letting Khushi go - his love, his life - will be the crowning moment.

Sacrifice is the name of the game, after all.

 
Jayne



Loved your take on the serial Jayne Hug every cast in this serial is damaged goods and out of them it is Anjali who takes the cake, the icing and the Bakery... she is a complete fruitcake.. what I find annoying is the values she keeps preaching to others while doing completely the opposite...

I have no issues with the air time of  the leads if that will help the story progress logically... we were supposed to see a whirlwind wedding of ASR to Khushi... it was supposed to be ASR way of compensating for what he deprived her (her dreams and wishes). However what we got to see was 3 parallel stories - a wedding, a secret from the past and a psycho returning...

The CVs have taken more than what they can handle.. here's a bunch of writers who are unable to show one plot logically how could they handle 3 simultaneously?  They have not done justice to either one of them..


Amidst this chaos they have now gone to  change the gist of the entire serial from a star crossed lovers  to the mistress in my sister's life..
Ouch


Edited by LadyLaLa - 04 September 2012 at 4:24pm

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Posted: 04 September 2012 at 4:32pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by CDlove

La, wonderful post darling. Aren't queries of love have been the greatest of mystries that had puzzeled the man kind from the beggining of time? How does one define love? Can it even be defined? We see many varies facets of love everyday. Can we ever give a singular definition, pinpoint to these facets and call it love? It's too complicated an entity in my opinion.

I sometimes think everything that drives us towards somewhere in life beggins and ends with love. We do so many things driven out of love, which we never would want to do in the first place. We earn, we study, we marry and so on and most of these decissions are driven by what our loved ones expect from us.
 
Arnav made a life of his own, fought silent battles with himself and achieved a great deal soley to give a good life to his Di. He sacrificed his happiness, his childhood and his spirit. He did this again when he sacrificed Khushi as he married her on that fateful day. All in the name of love
 
Khushi has sacrified almost everything for people around her without asking so much as a morsel in return. All in the name of love
 
Yet she is the one least loved, cherished and understood. Her parents, her sibling, her in-laws, her husband- all have and is still taking her for granted. But does she really mind? No I believe not becuase at the end of the day she's living for these people and would be happy to see them happy, even though it might be at the expense of her own happiness.
 
I can connect with both these characters (well at least I used to). They have both crossed limits of propriety for the sake of love. It's after all a love story albiet messed up as it still is called 'what name should be given to this love'.
 
I really do not want to comment on Anjali becuase I believe her character was not thought out well in the recent times and hence doesn't resemble realistic boundaries. Atleast it doesn't to me and her actions goes over my head. I tend to think she's seriously psychologically imbalanced and damaged, just like Shyam.
 
So at the end of the day I believe it depends on individual perspectives. People love in different ways. Some rightly, some wrongly, some for valid reasons, some for stupid reason, some according to social definitions, some defying the conventions, some according to the books, some out of the box.
 
My peeve is that they are loosing the essence of the show. Anjlai-Arnav story of their past was suppose to revolve around Arnav And Khushi's dynamics and their own love story. It should have brought out hidden layers of their characters and thier relationship.
 
 But what I see is bad story telling because the love story is put in the back burner while unncessary emphasis on Anjali-shyam, Anjlai and her psychotic behaviour, Anjali and Arnav's strange sibling relationship and so on are given priority.
 
What happened to the love story?


Hey Hiru thank you for your response HugThe show has lost its essence since April.. at least they could have salvaged it when Shyam's truth was revealed to others... since then the show has been on a steady  decline.. the story has not moved forward, no marriage has taken place and we are now dealing with a new story line called Di Ki Saut or whatever..


My patience is wearing thin.. one thing for sure.. In future I will think twice before  following any serial made by this PH Big smile

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Posted: 04 September 2012 at 4:58pm | IP Logged
Wow Girls! All of you have written fabulous replies.


La...that's another thing that stumps me - why did ASR not take any legal action against Shyam?
He is freely roaming about!

And now he caught him red handed...shouldn't he double the security, hire guards etc?
Howcome Shyam is shown sauntering into Anjali's room?!

Its the most ridiculous thing! In his office and business they have shown ASR so successful ( I mean he even bought a construction company to put pressure on Khushi to come back home) and a 'shrewd' businessman - so howcome in the matter of Shyam he is utterly clueless?!

And like you said, all the wounds on Anjali's foot - shouldn't that have been mentioned?

I think they have already swept the cause of the miscarriage under the carpet, much like the cause for Khushi's Dad's paralysis...so basically Shyam's crimes will never see the light of the day, unless he himself admits...which of course is not happening anytime soon.





Edited by sbk2 - 04 September 2012 at 5:00pm

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Posted: 04 September 2012 at 4:58pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by AyeReKhushi

Amazing and insightful post LadyLa!

Arnav's love for Anjali is unconditional.
Khushi's love for Arnav is unconditional.
Anjali's love for Shyam is unconditional.  

I want someone to give that unconditional love to Khushi, that she gives to everyone else. They have all failed her at some point...not just Arnav but her own family who said she's not their blood, after she has done more for them than their so-called biological daughter. It's sad.

As for the Raizadas, no question that they cannot see past each other's pain. It upset me that it was so easy for Arnav to see his sister's pain and cry for her...even though none of it was his fault. Khushi's pain was his fault...yet he didn't show that much remorse for her when he discovered her innocence. This after the year long of pain and accusations he hurled at her. Its a shame he can't see her pain. He didn't treat her pain with the same sensitivity, rather he forced her back into his house in his usual arrogant way.

@BOLD: And, the inverse is true...

Anjali's love for Arnav is conditional (if and only if he accepts jija and spends less time with Khushi)
Arnav's love for Khushi is conditional (if and only if hisprecious Di's interests are first taken care of)
Shyam's love for Anjali is conditional (if and only if she will remain dumb and allow him to play truant)

So it goes on...
Shyam's love for Khushi is conditional
Dadi's love for Arnav is conditional

(when I say love, it encompasses trust and understanding)

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