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I so wanted manav to... (Page 3)

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Posted: 11 August 2012 at 12:01am | IP Logged
Dear Bhalla, Purvi didn't ruin Ovi's life, if anyone ruined her life it was Arjun so let the blame not be laid at Purvi's door.

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Posted: 11 August 2012 at 12:04am | IP Logged
Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Dear Bhalla, Purvi didn't ruin Ovi's life, if anyone ruined her life it was Arjun so let the blame not be laid at Purvi's door.
u r rite when purvi came to know arjun committed to ovi she kept her away from arjun.but when she can see arjun himself broke off his relation with ovi she agree to proceed her relation.but purvi didnt ask arjun to do it.


Edited by poas - 11 August 2012 at 12:03am

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Posted: 11 August 2012 at 12:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Sowmya, I agree with you, in fact I wrote something similar a couple of days ago that a mother who is sane would tell Sachin to take a flying leap and tell the girls the truth about her separation with their dad.  Archana should not keep prolonging their agony, her duty very obviously is towards them, no question about that in my mind at all.  As my other post said she could tell Sachin, "I love you enough to still divorce your dad if that is what you want but I am going to tell my daughters the truth."

Agreed!
 
All of them share equally in the blame, Savita, Manav, Archana (Damo too to a major extent)- holding her singly responsible is not kosher (to me).  Each of them has an equal and paramount duty to tell the girls the truth as the children are the ones hurting and suffering. 
 
Savita is hiding the truth for her own reasons of keeping her son away from Archana, she ought to be thinking of her grand daughters too and rid them of their misconceptions about their mom, Manav owes it to Archana as a supposedly loving husband and as a caring dad to let the girls know, "your mom and I couldn't get along, your mom was foolish enough to let your aunt Varsha hold Soham at your b'day party, as a result of which your brother ended up missing, I wasn't sure about your mother's mothering capabilities and hence took you guys away from her for your own safety".  Simple, instead of "she didn't love you, she left you" nonsense.  I do believe that Archana has the biggest responsibility as a mother who gave birth to these girls to let them know the unvarnished truth as well.

Jhanvi (that's your name right? Sorry if I'm mistaken!), while all three adults are to blame for the situation, Manav is the least culpable and Archana the most. I'm not sure if you saw the episodes before and immediately after the leap before arjun-purvi started, so I'll give a brief recap. Manav literally had nightmares that archana handed the twins over to varsha when she came back after losing soham in the lake-- so he told her he didn't feel the kids were safe with her and that she should fight him in court if she wanted custody of the kids. Archana willingly handed over the twins to manav over sulochana's protests. Manav softened his stance and sent tickets for archana with his mom who told archana they were custody papers. Savita told manav the same thing that archana didnt want to come to canada and she was giving him sole custody of the kids. On the way to the airport, manav called archana to ask if she got the package he sent with his mom. Instead of telling him she didn't care about his package, but he can't go to canada without her; she told him she sent her answer with savita. Of course, she realised at the last moment and then ran to the airport to stop him and she couldn't. That was when she took purvi from the accident scene.

She did not contact manav or the children in the 18 years of the leap. After the leap, when savita forged the divorce papers and told archana sent them; manav asked archana what was the reason for the divorce. She told him she didn't, he didn't believe at first; then he did and asked her to come to canada with him to be with their family since he didn't want a divorce either. By that time, archana had foolishly agreed to sachu's demands for a divorce if she loved him at all, so she publicly humiliated manav and told him she wanted a big alimony that's the reason for the divorce. Since then, she's been flip-flopping; showing affection 1 second and withdrawing when he asks her why she's doing it. He's asked her several times since then, why she wants to divorce when she still has affections for him. he gets no answer from her.

In this whole mess, he doesn't know anything except that he took (not snatched) the girls from archana, and that archana didn't want to be with him before the leap and she doesn't want to be with him now. Even with their so-called "pavitra rishta", he can't be expected to know and understand things without telling right? Would he dream his son sachu would ask archana to agree to the divorce, or that she would agree to do his bidding? No parent would. How would he know anything without telling? If archana had told him the truth and left it to him to figure it out; and he still didn't do anything because he didn't want to upset sachu or his mom-then he would be wrong.
He's not omniscient! He can only act and react based on what he knows.

Coming to savita, she had a much bigger role in the whole thing, the underhanded one. But it still wasn't the biggest. I firmly believe that no outsider can break a marriage, only the two people in the marriage can. If archana and manav's marriage was rock-solid, manav would not have sent the tickets with savita and he would never have believed that she refused to come with him. Archana would not have believed manav would go anywhere without her, much less canada. They both believed the worst of each other because they did not know or trust each other at that point; which savita took advantage of. It's a whole different debate if what savita did was wrong and how wrong it was. Either way, savita only put the final nail in the coffin of arman's marriage.

Finally, archana had  and still has the biggest role in this mess. You already know about the court case and Soham's kidnap. The court case understandably brought serious trouble in arman's marriage; soham's kidnap and archana's role in it nearly ended their already shaky relationship. But that was 18 years ago and the past. Has anything changed in the present? Nope. Archana had the power to change the present and the future; the kids and manav are within her reach, and manav has made it clear that he doesn't want a divorce. Archana knows the truth, not about savita's lies just before the leap, but about the divorce. That she didn't send the papers and she doesn't want it. What can she do with it? Just tell it-simple. Manav will believe her-whether the twins do or not. What does she do with it? She keeps quiet and cries and cries and irritatingly keeps crying. As a parent with his children's best interests at heart, is it not right for manav to keep archana away from the twins when he thinks she's not going to be part of the family for more than a few weeks. Especially since the twins resent her and she doesn't do any serious effort to bond with them either; should he try and force them to bond with her when he knows it's only for a few weeks? I don't think so.
Especially with archana's acceptance of arjun and purvi's relationship which will be viewed as bias.

Archana knows the truth and she's taking a decision that affects not just her, but the rest of her family without their knowledge or consent. She's not a victim, but a woman with a lofty opinion of her own principles, a fool and a masochist who loves suffering. Not a combination I like and no sympathy
for her from my side; only irritation.
 
Kalapi, agree too that the ARMAN kids are the major losers in this drama between dad/mom/grandmom.  Agree too, that if it were my two daughters involved, I would explain to Purvi that her baba cannot attend as he needs to be with Ovi.  Would let Manav know that though Purvi wants him there, I will explain to Purvi that he needs to stay with Ovi as Ovi needs her dad the most at this point.

Archana should have told manav that though he's purvi's baba and she would want him there to bless her; his place is with Ovi right now especially because she herself can't provide ovi comfort right now. Instead, she says pruvi should have everything on this occasion and i can give her everything but her baba, but she understands if he can't come. That's emotional manipulation at its best!
 
The point of my post was merely that Manav has no business pointing fingers at Archana when he is at fault also.  Same goes for Savita. They get to blame Archana for Varsha snatching Soham and his disappearance AND they get to blame (tantamount to lying in my mind)Archana for Manav snatching the girls away from her too.  Not fair.  Poor woman, everything that happens around her is not her doing, she is not all that omnipotent even if the silly woman herself is under the misapprehension that she is!

Manav can definitely question archana, but he won't. And she won't answer him if he does. Archana is responsible for varsha kidnapping soham, and willingly gave the girls to manav. Not everything that happens is her fault; but most things are. I definitely agree to the last point that the silly woman's under the assumption that she's all-knowing when truly she's a fool of the highest order.
 
  


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Posted: 11 August 2012 at 1:32am | IP Logged
Originally posted by sowmya_jairam

Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Sowmya, I agree with you, in fact I wrote something similar a couple of days ago that a mother who is sane would tell Sachin to take a flying leap and tell the girls the truth about her separation with their dad.  Archana should not keep prolonging their agony, her duty very obviously is towards them, no question about that in my mind at all.  As my other post said she could tell Sachin, "I love you enough to still divorce your dad if that is what you want but I am going to tell my daughters the truth."

Agreed!
 
All of them share equally in the blame, Savita, Manav, Archana (Damo too to a major extent)- holding her singly responsible is not kosher (to me).  Each of them has an equal and paramount duty to tell the girls the truth as the children are the ones hurting and suffering. 
 
Savita is hiding the truth for her own reasons of keeping her son away from Archana, she ought to be thinking of her grand daughters too and rid them of their misconceptions about their mom, Manav owes it to Archana as a supposedly loving husband and as a caring dad to let the girls know, "your mom and I couldn't get along, your mom was foolish enough to let your aunt Varsha hold Soham at your b'day party, as a result of which your brother ended up missing, I wasn't sure about your mother's mothering capabilities and hence took you guys away from her for your own safety".  Simple, instead of "she didn't love you, she left you" nonsense.  I do believe that Archana has the biggest responsibility as a mother who gave birth to these girls to let them know the unvarnished truth as well.

Jhanvi (that's your name right? Sorry if I'm mistaken!), while all three adults are to blame for the situation, Manav is the least culpable and Archana the most. I'm not sure if you saw the episodes before and immediately after the leap before arjun-purvi started, so I'll give a brief recap. Manav literally had nightmares that archana handed the twins over to varsha when she came back after losing soham in the lake-- so he told her he didn't feel the kids were safe with her and that she should fight him in court if she wanted custody of the kids. Archana willingly handed over the twins to manav over sulochana's protests. Manav softened his stance and sent tickets for archana with his mom who told archana they were custody papers. Savita told manav the same thing that archana didnt want to come to canada and she was giving him sole custody of the kids. On the way to the airport, manav called archana to ask if she got the package he sent with his mom. Instead of telling him she didn't care about his package, but he can't go to canada without her; she told him she sent her answer with savita. Of course, she realised at the last moment and then ran to the airport to stop him and she couldn't. That was when she took purvi from the accident scene.

She did not contact manav or the children in the 18 years of the leap. After the leap, when savita forged the divorce papers and told archana sent them; manav asked archana what was the reason for the divorce. She told him she didn't, he didn't believe at first; then he did and asked her to come to canada with him to be with their family since he didn't want a divorce either. By that time, archana had foolishly agreed to sachu's demands for a divorce if she loved him at all, so she publicly humiliated manav and told him she wanted a big alimony that's the reason for the divorce. Since then, she's been flip-flopping; showing affection 1 second and withdrawing when he asks her why she's doing it. He's asked her several times since then, why she wants to divorce when she still has affections for him. he gets no answer from her.

In this whole mess, he doesn't know anything except that he took (not snatched) the girls from archana, and that archana didn't want to be with him before the leap and she doesn't want to be with him now. Even with their so-called "pavitra rishta", he can't be expected to know and understand things without telling right? Would he dream his son sachu would ask archana to agree to the divorce, or that she would agree to do his bidding? No parent would. How would he know anything without telling? If archana had told him the truth and left it to him to figure it out; and he still didn't do anything because he didn't want to upset sachu or his mom-then he would be wrong.
He's not omniscient! He can only act and react based on what he knows.

Coming to savita, she had a much bigger role in the whole thing, the underhanded one. But it still wasn't the biggest. I firmly believe that no outsider can break a marriage, only the two people in the marriage can. If archana and manav's marriage was rock-solid, manav would not have sent the tickets with savita and he would never have believed that she refused to come with him. Archana would not have believed manav would go anywhere without her, much less canada. They both believed the worst of each other because they did not know or trust each other at that point; which savita took advantage of. It's a whole different debate if what savita did was wrong and how wrong it was. Either way, savita only put the final nail in the coffin of arman's marriage.

Finally, archana had  and still has the biggest role in this mess. You already know about the court case and Soham's kidnap. The court case understandably brought serious trouble in arman's marriage; soham's kidnap and archana's role in it nearly ended their already shaky relationship. But that was 18 years ago and the past. Has anything changed in the present? Nope. Archana had the power to change the present and the future; the kids and manav are within her reach, and manav has made it clear that he doesn't want a divorce. Archana knows the truth, not about savita's lies just before the leap, but about the divorce. That she didn't send the papers and she doesn't want it. What can she do with it? Just tell it-simple. Manav will believe her-whether the twins do or not. What does she do with it? She keeps quiet and cries and cries and irritatingly keeps crying. As a parent with his children's best interests at heart, is it not right for manav to keep archana away from the twins when he thinks she's not going to be part of the family for more than a few weeks. Especially since the twins resent her and she doesn't do any serious effort to bond with them either; should he try and force them to bond with her when he knows it's only for a few weeks? I don't think so.
Especially with archana's acceptance of arjun and purvi's relationship which will be viewed as bias.

Archana knows the truth and she's taking a decision that affects not just her, but the rest of her family without their knowledge or consent. She's not a victim, but a woman with a lofty opinion of her own principles, a fool and a masochist who loves suffering. Not a combination I like and no sympathy
for her from my side; only irritation.
Sowmya, yes, Janhvi is my name.  I did watch PR before the leap as well just not as religiously as now, my mom has been watching it since day one and yes, I know Manav sent the tickets through his mom and the reason why he snatched the kids from her.  If we are ready to excuse him for taking the kids away from her because of his nightmares, let us give her the benefit of the doubt as well.  She had just lost her son to her mental sister and she had been told by her husband that she was responsible for the child's loss.  She did let her sister hold the baby, did take the baby out of her husband's arms, mighty foolish of her but while she enabled her sister to commit the crime, we cannot in all actuality blame Archana for the loss of Soham.  It was Varsha who was ultimately responsible.  Granted, she let Varsha hold the baby, what were Savita and Manav doing, why did they both not watch Varsha with a hawk eye and monitor her every movement?  Archana was dumb did not know Varsha was evil, Manav knew so why was he not more vigilant?  Because he believed his wife?  (His believing is now Archana's fault too) So did Archana believe Varsha.  Believing does not make one guilty. If it does than Manav is as guilty as Archana for the loss of Soham.
 
Coming to the taking away of the twins, Manav took them away because he was afraid the same fate as Soham's awaited them at the hands of Varsha.  Kind of idiotic on his part as Varsha had never shown any interest in them and she had jumped off the bridge and presumed dead.  But in the throes of grief, he took his nightmares to mean reality and removed the twins from his wife.  Same way, in the throes of grief, the woman was probably feeling vulnerable, grief stricken, and doubted her own capabilites to be a good mother.  Here her husband was telling her to give him their children as he was afraid for their safety at her hands, she is already guilt ridden, he has already blamed her for their entire loss, she hands over the children in an effort to soothe his grief, his rage at her and to assuage her own guilt.  All normal reactions at times of such trauma.  She had no idea he was taking the children away to Canada without telling her.  I remember seeing the scene where she tries to hold him and he stands there wooden, cold as a stone, she looked a defeated woman.
 
As for the next issue, Manav calling Archana to ask if she had received the packet, just like he didn't know his mother tricked them both by substituting his packet, Archana didn't know either that the divorce papers and custody papers were not what he was referring to - so why blame her for not being clear in her answer and for saying her answer was in/with the packet when he had not been any clearer in his question.
 
As for the 18 years, she is a simple chawl woman, how was she to have the material means to track down her husband in a strange country?  More feasible for him to check on her, if she lived or died, as she still lives in the same town, same chawl, same house.  As for asking Vandu, maybe she did and maybe Vandu didn't divulge, the story is mum on this.
 
As to Savita playing a big role in their separation, yes, she did and she is to be blamed with no reservation for the meanest thing she ever did, to keep a mother away from her two babies and her son away from his wife not for one month, not for one year but for 18 solid years.  Not forgiveable at all. 
 
Yet, as you say, I will not lay the entire blame on her (that is why I said "equal blame to all 3"), no marriage can be torn assunder if the foundation is strong (agree with you on this whole-heartedly).  If the husband and wife had any trust on each other, if not in the heat of the moment but later when tempers had cooled and emotions soothed, they would have made an attempt to seek out an explanation (no not Manav seeking it now after 18 years but more immediate).  This raises a doubt whether these two ever shared as deep a love as they profess to have done.
 
The confrontation now would not have happened had it not been for the catalyst that caused the separation in the first place, Savita.  She panicked and forged the divorce papers, left alone, these two might have gone to their graves with love in their hearts and emptiness in their souls.
 
Agree with you 100% that Archana should have told Manav the truth now about the divorce and not tried to shield Sachin.  If my son asked me to divorce his dad out of love for him, the child, I would tell my child to go take a flying leap. She is foolish beyond limits and that is highly irksome. As for her responsibility towards her daughters, please see my original post highlighted in purple - we are in agreement on this :)
 
Kalapi, agree too that the ARMAN kids are the major losers in this drama between dad/mom/grandmom.  Agree too, that if it were my two daughters involved, I would explain to Purvi that her baba cannot attend as he needs to be with Ovi.  Would let Manav know that though Purvi wants him there, I will explain to Purvi that he needs to stay with Ovi as Ovi needs her dad the most at this point.

Archana should have told manav that though he's purvi's baba and she would want him there to bless her; his place is with Ovi right now especially because she herself can't provide ovi comfort right now. Instead, she says pruvi should have everything on this occasion and i can give her everything but her baba, but she understands if he can't come. That's emotional manipulation at its best!
 
AGREED! :) Bolded and highlighted my original response to Kalapi above.
We agree on this too - Archana should understand that Ovi needs Manav more than Purvi needs her baba and she needs to make Purvi understand this and not guilt trip Manav about his decision not to attend the engagement however much she might want him to attend.
 
The point of my post was merely that Manav has no business pointing fingers at Archana when he is at fault also.  Same goes for Savita. They get to blame Archana for Varsha snatching Soham and his disappearance AND they get to blame (tantamount to lying in my mind)Archana for Manav snatching the girls away from her too.  Not fair.  Poor woman, everything that happens around her is not her doing, she is not all that omnipotent even if the silly woman herself is under the misapprehension that she is!

Manav can definitely question archana, but he won't. And she won't answer him if he does. Archana is responsible for varsha kidnapping soham, and willingly gave the girls to manav. Not everything that happens is her fault; but most things are. I definitely agree to the last point that the silly woman's under the assumption that she's all-knowing when truly she's a fool of the highest order.
AGREED to all except the third sentence in italics :)
  


 
Sowmya, thanks for taking the time to respond in detail.  My responses in majenta and purple are embedded in your post which I have quoted.  Looks like we do agree on some points if not all. 


Edited by soapwatcher1 - 11 August 2012 at 1:33am

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Posted: 11 August 2012 at 2:56am | IP Logged
@soapwatcher:manav dnt knew abt savitas intentions,whereas archana knew it.its not to blame manav here.and varsha was archanamad sister,who hav actually got violent and attackd people includng archana,archana invitd trouble for soham.look aftr 18 years where is soham,d way archu forgot ovi teju seeing purvi,she forgnt soham too.she wil b d first one to forgive varsha and she wnt let manav punishher either.and ya manav was scared for his kids cause he knw hw archana was and hw much she luv her sisters.archana dnt allw manav to put varsha behnd bars wen she kidnappd soham

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Posted: 11 August 2012 at 4:02am | IP Logged
yes and let me add purvi only want baba on her engagement what abt her sisters if she really think of them as sis though teju ovi might not talk to her humiliate her but she should try to talk to them but purvi only want baba .

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Posted: 11 August 2012 at 4:57am | IP Logged
And one mre ting,purvi-sulo all praising arjun to risk his life 4 purvi,wat abt manav,i dnt see purvi evn thnkng manav once also or either of them praising him.if it was manav duty as a father,so wasnt it purvi duty to wait til manav except arvi relatin.u cnt jst except tings frm parents in name of duty,its a giv and tke relation,srry to say dis k fly has jst tken tings frm d family,and in return dint giv evn respct to dem.

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Posted: 11 August 2012 at 5:40pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by sherma

@soapwatcher:manav dnt knew abt savitas intentions,whereas archana knew it.its not to blame manav here.and varsha was archanamad sister,who hav actually got violent and attackd people includng archana,archana invitd trouble for soham.look aftr 18 years where is soham,d way archu forgot ovi teju seeing purvi,she forgnt soham too.she wil b d first one to forgive varsha and she wnt let manav punishher either.and ya manav was scared for his kids cause he knw hw archana was and hw much she luv her sisters.archana dnt allw manav to put varsha behnd bars wen she kidnappd soham


Dear sherna, Archana did not know about Savita's duplicity either 18 years ago so since neither husband nor wife knew, both are at fault for not clarifying the issue with each other. Cannot blame one without the other.

In the current track, yes, I do hold Archana at fault (together with Savita and Soham for plotting such a dastardly plan) for not disclosing Savita's forgery tricks, both my posts in this very thread state that. I strongly believe Archana should disclose the truth to her daughters. Just as much as Manav owes them the truth about 18 years ago, Archana owes them the truth about the current divorce situation. Savita as a grandma has less of a duty towards her grand daughters than the parents themselves do.

As for Purvi not thanking Manav, Manav hung up in her when she was speaking, didn't give her a chance. At the hospital with Arjun at death's door, all their thought were elsewhere.

As for wanting her baba and not Ovi and Teju, that is not true at all. Purvi is younger than the two girls, sovthe older two should have more sense than her. She pleaded with Teju and Tej brushed her off at the K house if you remember. Tej rudely told her not to interfere in their family affair. Ovi has been nothing but repugnant to her, slapping her, being nasty at the hospital, asking her dad to let her "sister" languish at the hands of the very goondas that supposedly were to kidnap her, Ovi. Purvi is not like Archana to go be a doormat and to turn her other cheek every time the twin girls take a figurative lunge at her.

Come on now, let us be fair, let us hold the twins responsible for not doing anything to be nice to Purvi and this before even finding about the Arjun involvement. Let us call a spade a spade :) no offense.

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