If you believe in God, refute this! (Page 7)

Freethinker112

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Posted: 07 August 2012 at 3:46am | IP Logged

Originally posted by Rehanism

...

Totally agree to the above. Either prove what you say or just admit that we don't know.

BTW thanks for support, it is tiring to tackle everybody in the thread alone. LOL

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Freethinker112

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Posted: 07 August 2012 at 3:52am | IP Logged

Originally posted by guglu-baby

For me god is just an assurance. Whenever in a fix, i tend to draw inspiration, peace and support from 'something' present in the nature.
Through the beauty of flowers, the purity of sky, the mesmerising brightness of sun(does it sound poetic?...lol) and everything that has a soothing effect on my mind, i feel the presence of that 'something' and call it god.
Regarding creator an creations theory, i'm as confused as you are. I do not understand the theory of karma either, may be rebirth would be the justification, which is again without any proof.
And about number of souls, in my opinion(strictly my opinion!) when 100 people become 500, the extra 400 souls come from various insects and animals they had killed knowingly or unknowingly (lolz...an arrow in the dark...i know it's silly).
On a serious note, i guess the leaders of various communities wanted their people to follow a certain code of conduct and to abide by the moral principles and hence named the law as god to instill some fear in their hearts. This would have ensured smooth functioning of society and helped people in leading a meaningful life as better human beings.
But with the advent of time, people lost track of the basic concept of god which was an amalgamation of love, care, benevolence, brotherhood, honesty etc and created their own version of it.

Yep, nature is very beautiful. But, why don't just love nature itself than creating a creator? Unhappy

What if the population of insects are also increasing? And what facilitates the interspecies conversion of souls? Wink

But, I think blind faith is very dangerous for society. People need to be thinking, otherwise you have a giant force ready to do anything, without objection, under the control of a few people, which is as dangerous as it sounds. Just be human and love other humans. People have the goodness in them. Humanity is good enough.

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Aya.

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Posted: 07 August 2012 at 4:36am | IP Logged

Originally posted by Freethinker112

Originally posted by guglu-baby

For me god is just an assurance. Whenever in a fix, i tend to draw inspiration, peace and support from 'something' present in the nature.
Through the beauty of flowers, the purity of sky, the mesmerising brightness of sun(does it sound poetic?...lol) and everything that has a soothing effect on my mind, i feel the presence of that 'something' and call it god.
Regarding creator an creations theory, i'm as confused as you are. I do not understand the theory of karma either, may be rebirth would be the justification, which is again without any proof.
And about number of souls, in my opinion(strictly my opinion!) when 100 people become 500, the extra 400 souls come from various insects and animals they had killed knowingly or unknowingly (lolz...an arrow in the dark...i know it's silly).
On a serious note, i guess the leaders of various communities wanted their people to follow a certain code of conduct and to abide by the moral principles and hence named the law as god to instill some fear in their hearts. This would have ensured smooth functioning of society and helped people in leading a meaningful life as better human beings.
But with the advent of time, people lost track of the basic concept of god which was an amalgamation of love, care, benevolence, brotherhood, honesty etc and created their own version of it.

Yep, nature is very beautiful. But, why don't just love nature itself than creating a creator? Unhappy

What if the population of insects are also increasing? And what facilitates the interspecies conversion of souls? Wink

But, I think blind faith is very dangerous for society. People need to be thinking, otherwise you have a giant force ready to do anything, without objection, under the control of a few people, which is as dangerous as it sounds. Just be human and love other humans. People have the goodness in them. Humanity is good enough.

@bold - Really, That's all you got now ? Trying to brainwash people ? Telling them blind faith is very dangerous ? Do you believe in love ? Because love is blind too ! Why do I have a feeling you work with the media ? They're really good at fooling people, but suck at fooling people with strong belief !

Oh btw, you've ignored my post again ! I'd like to hear your thoughts on it !

Edited by Aya. - 07 August 2012 at 4:36am

Freethinker112

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Posted: 07 August 2012 at 4:55am | IP Logged

@Aya

Not fair. Since you made the claim, it is up to you to provide the proof. Can you prove Harry Potter is not real? Maybe we are really muggles and can't see the wizard world? Stupid isn't it? If someone claims that Harry Potter exists, then it is up to them to prove it.

What is that A to Z nonsense? How dies it even relate to the thread? And yes, A can create Z after it was created by B. You didn't give the timeline of the creation of letters.

Nope, if God can exist without creation, so can the singularity from which Universe originated. Why make things complex by inserting an imaginary God, of which there isn't any proof.

How do you know if he exists outside of realms of space and time? Nobody can look there, or even know if such a thing exists. And you are telling me you know about the things present there? You can look beyond space-time? Confused

Yeah, Big Bang created the time. And yes, there existed a singularity before it. And no, it still doesn't mean that there was a intelligent or conscious creator.

Yeah, you can say the same thing about God, but the difference is that I can show you the Universe but you can't show me God. Yes Big Bang is a theory, but theory means that the proof has already been presented. The Big Bang model can offer real proof which I can show you. What proof can you show about God? I also believe in things that makes sense, therefore I choose science. And science is confused? Really? You call proof confusion? What about, NO.

If you cannot create something out of nothing, who created God? you always dodge this question. Stop doing that.

How can you believe that? I say I know everything but will not tell you anything. Whatever is happening to me, I have created that. I know when I am going to die, but I won't tell you. In fact, I won't tell you anything about your future too, which i have written. I will remain mysterious. Isn't that exactly what God does? He takes mysterious test, he will never come and show himself, he knows everything but won't tell anyone or stop bad things from happening. I am doing the same. I am God. Can you prove I am not?

Gravitation is fundamental property, nobody is holding together everything. And if you won't agree, then I will say God cannot also function by himself. What makes him do Godly things? What gives him powers? Can you answer that? Don't think so. And if you are saying that it is as it is, then I will say gravitation and other laws of Universe are as they are.

And yes, even if you leave a child to its own, it will learn to walk on its own. And planes and missiles fly without being controlled by a man, haven't you heard of the term "Autopilot"? And now, Google has even made cars that can drive themselves. It's simple engineering, sensors and calculations. All thanks to science.

When, i give a test, I sign up voluntarily, know the rule, can contact the test taker anytime, and know what will happen if I pass. Now, I don't remember signing up to be born human, can't contact the test taker, and don't know what happens if I pass. So, not exactly a test, is it?

If God created humans, why not perfect humans who don't have evil thoughts? He put evil thoughts in our mind because if he designed our brains if he designed us, that means he is evil if he exists. Not praise worthy. And no evil doesn't need to exist. Are you saying you can't live without evil?

You really have no knowledge of biology. Eggs are not airtight, they have very small pores that allows for exchange of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide. If you don't believe, seal an egg in a cloth or plastic and leave it. The egg will never hatch. The liquids inside are his food. And he doesn't appear magically inside the shell, it develops inside.

Again Mr. Mackenzie is doing reverse argument. The Universe came first and then we evolved because situation was right. Situation was not right so that we could come, we came because it was right. You are reversion cause and effect. When you put a water into a container, it takes the shape of container. You don't say the container was designed to hold the water in that exact shape, no. You say the water takes the shape of container. Likewise, we adapted and evolved according to the conditions, Universe didn't adapt for us. If there was a intelligent creator, why not create life everywhere in Universe? Because nobody was creating, we just randomly evolved in the right conditions. Now, only one right conditions in such a big area as our solar system and even galaxy, does it seem like intelligent creation? No, it appears random.

Universe began by Big Bang. But it didn't start in any point of time, because time was simultaneously created with space. They both came into existence together. And the source was singularity. And no Big Bang model have no place for God, neither it is a proof of God.

Again, as I said, life adapted to conditions and evolved not vice versa.

And again you are promoting stupidity by saying we should not ask questions. If he is so good, righteous, and caring, what's the problem in coming here and giving some answers? Why doesn't he come when a person is very much need of him, has faith, and crying for his help? Where the hell is God, then?

I will ask questions just like may people have, but he didn't come to answer because there is no God. And even if there is, by seeing the state of world, I will say he did a very poor job and I could have done it better. I also have decided,but unlike you I am ready to change my mind if I see some proof. But since nobody can provide one, I take my stand. And I also have got nothing to lose.

It was nice to discuss with you. I would just advice you to keep and open mind and think for yourself. Smile

Edited by Freethinker112 - 07 August 2012 at 4:55am

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Freethinker112

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Posted: 07 August 2012 at 5:03am | IP Logged

Originally posted by Aya.

@bold - Really, That's all you got now ? Trying to brainwash people ? Telling them blind faith is very dangerous ? Do you believe in love ? Because love is blind too ! Why do I have a feeling you work with the media ? They're really good at fooling people, but suck at fooling people with strong belief !

Oh btw, you've ignored my post again ! I'd like to hear your thoughts on it !

First of all, that post was not for you. I have got much more and have given a part of that you, which you seem to have a problem handling, dodging questions and all.

Yes, I believe in love. And no, blind love is stupid. You have to think and question if you partner is wrong, even in love. And I can love and have faith in real people, my partner or family, not imaginary beings.

I do not work anywhere, I am a class 12 student. And media does a very bad job of fooling people, their sensationalism makes people doubt even the real news because of the way they present it. But yeah, everyone sucks at fooling compared to the creators of religion, they take that award. Fooling the majority of Earth for so many generations in spite of heaping contrary evidence, now that's a feat! Clap

P.S : Why do you always get so impatient? This thread is not about you only, there are other people replying too and I gotta answer them too.

Edited by Freethinker112 - 07 August 2012 at 5:03am

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Prometeus

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Posted: 07 August 2012 at 5:55am | IP Logged

There is 300+ religion in this world, all having their own concept and ideas about the God. Some situation I feel,God is a myth created by those who need someone to blame...I believe God is not a person bt a presence and we all wanna know about begining n ending things...thats stupidity, cos there is no beging and ending...somebody or some power was already there!

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Rehanism

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Posted: 07 August 2012 at 6:02am | IP Logged

There is a certain difference between 'cause' and 'purpose'. We can try and decipher the cause of an event or a natural object occurring in space and time, but determining it's *purpose of existence* is pretty impossible and illogical too. Often asked 'spiritual' questions like *What is the purpose of life?* or *Why the universe was created?* are illegitimate and closed questions as they beg only one kind of answer - and such answers are neither falsifiable nor can they be testified. They fall under *Not Even Wrong* category.

For instance, one religious prophet was once asked by his disciples, "Why did God create the moon?" The prophet replied "The moon was created for the believers to know the time of pilgrimage". Well, this is bullshit. The moon was formed around the same time as earth itself i.e. nearly 4.5 billion years back whereas modern humans evolved only around 70,000-100,000 years back and religions are barely few thousand years old. Humans might have used movement of sun and moon to determine time of religious festivals but that definitely doesn't mean the PURPOSE of the moon is to serve as a calendar for humans. Similarly we have put many naturally occurring objects, phenomenon and beings to our use but that need not mean that those phenomenon or beings were made for us with a purpose. In the same sense religious people offer simple answers to many such illegitimate questions:

Q. What is the purpose of life?

Ans: To please God through faith and go to heaven/To attain Moksha from cycle of life and death.

Q. Why do we suffer in life?

Ans: God is testing your faith/You did something bad in your past life.

Q. Why do only women bear the pain of menstruation and child birth?

Ans: Because God cursed Eve for eating apple from the Forbidden tree.

and so on and on...

We have several theories about the formation of universe, planets, sun, moon and even life and its diversions on earth and I am sure as science progresses our knowledge would be more accurate and refined but to assign a random purpose to naturally occurring objects, phenomena and beings is preposterous.

Ad Muncher

Edited by Rehanism - 07 August 2012 at 6:37am

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akanksha82

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Posted: 07 August 2012 at 6:41am | IP Logged

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