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If you believe in God, refute this! (Page 69)

Freethinker112 IF-Sizzlerz
Freethinker112
Freethinker112

Joined: 16 May 2012
Posts: 13813

Posted: 05 October 2012 at 7:19am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Summer3


BTW our Mr. Freethinker does not believe in the Soul which means he sees himself as the body and upon death everything ends "The End"LOL
Personally I see the soul as actually ONE but it can appear as MANY. To experience the Oneness we must practise Oneness I think.

Yes, I do not believe in souls.

So, every being contains a soul but it is one? So, what happens when one dies? You break it and redistribute it amongst others?

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Samraat_92

Freethinker112 IF-Sizzlerz
Freethinker112
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Posted: 05 October 2012 at 7:26am | IP Logged
Originally posted by zorrro

May be and may be not . How am I supposed to know that? But I dont see why a designer should be restricted in his designings.

Then you should not be making claims about something you don't know. How do you know there is a creator?


Originally posted by zorrro

I'm sorry I  dont get the logic here .Confused  If you design  vehicles for transport, you could design a three wheeler, a two wheeler or a no wheeler if you like.  A hovercraft, a speed boat and so on.

Multiple types of wheels for multiple vehicles. But since there is no life form near us, why not give us the whole area?


Originally posted by zorrro

Not necessarily. You could always improvise on the design. 

Since an all knowing being knows everything, there isn't room for improvement.


Originally posted by zorrro

Something mysterious can still exist and be unknown or cant it ?

Yes, but since it is unknown you can't say what it is.


Originally posted by zorrro

There is no end to such paradoxes. Lets see one for example: "You think that motion is infinitely divisible? Then it follows that nothing moves!So should we conclude that nothing moves?

Zeno's paradox can be explained. 1/2+1/4+1/8+...=1. The series is infinite but it converges to a finite sum.


Originally posted by zorrro

 Homo sapiens is just a conventional label.  We have a fair understanding of biology but which of it would you call "you" Which tissue, which cell,... all cells?  They keep altering, dying and renewing.  Consciousness is a mystery  in itself.  So is it wrong to say that it exists?

Yes, consciousness is a mystery. But we are actually experiencing it so we know that it is.

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Samraat_92

K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

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Posted: 05 October 2012 at 10:04am | IP Logged
Freethinker, I will get to your other questions soon (leisurely ) but the question regarding observer could be answered right away.

The quantum observer need not be a conscious life form.  They conducted experiments similar to the famous double slit experiment but instead of a human observer, they had an electron detector as "observer" which can detect passing electrons going through a barrier with two openings. This "observer's" capacity to detect electrons could be altered by changing its electrical conductivity but apart from that it would have no effect on the passing electrons. They found that the very presence of the "observer" near one of the openings caused changes in the interference pattern of the electron waves passing through the openings of the barrier. When the "observer's" capacity to detect electrons increased, as in when the level of the observation went up, the interference weakened (particle behavior). When the "observer's" capacity to detect electrons was decreased, as in reduced observation, the interference increased (wave behavior).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm

K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
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Posted: 05 October 2012 at 10:09am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Vintage.Wine

The life on earth would end one day as the SUN transforms into a supernova and dies off later


In your inebriated state, you overestimated the mass of our Sun. It won't go supernova; 5 billion years or so from now, it will become a red giant, gobble up Mercury, Venus, Earth and possibly Mars, run out of fuel and turn into a white dwarf.
Freethinker112 IF-Sizzlerz
Freethinker112
Freethinker112

Joined: 16 May 2012
Posts: 13813

Posted: 05 October 2012 at 10:18am | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Universe.

Freethinker, I will get to your other questions soon (leisurely ) but the question regarding observer could be answered right away.

The quantum observer need not be a conscious life form.  They conducted experiments similar to the famous double slit experiment but instead of a human observer, they had an electron detector as "observer" which can detect passing electrons going through a barrier with two openings. This "observer's" capacity to detect electrons could be altered by changing its electrical conductivity but apart from that it would have no effect on the passing electrons. They found that the very presence of the "observer" near one of the openings caused changes in the interference pattern of the electron waves passing through the openings of the barrier. When the "observer's" capacity to detect electrons increased, as in when the level of the observation went up, the interference weakened (particle behavior). When the "observer's" capacity to detect electrons was decreased, as in reduced observation, the interference increased (wave behavior).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm


Yeah, so as I guessed, the interaction causes the collapse, there need not be a conscious observer.
Freethinker112 IF-Sizzlerz
Freethinker112
Freethinker112

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Posts: 13813

Posted: 05 October 2012 at 10:19am | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Universe.


In your inebriated state, you overestimated the mass of our Sun. It won't go supernova; 5 billion years or so from now, it will become a red giant, gobble up Mercury, Venus, Earth and possibly Mars, run out of fuel and turn into a white dwarf.

I noticed that too but didn't mention it as Mr. Wine is always in a comical mood. LOL
K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

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Posts: 1147

Posted: 05 October 2012 at 10:47am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Freethinker112

Yeah, so as I guessed, the interaction causes the collapse, there need not be a conscious observer.


I don't think the detector was interacting with the electrons; it was only setup for detecting the electrons. I will read up more on electron detectors but my understanding is that they are sophisticated enough so as not to cause any disturbances.
Vintage.Wine Goldie
Vintage.Wine
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Posted: 05 October 2012 at 1:45pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Freethinker112

Originally posted by Vintage.Wine


 

Because dead people's body has been damaged and therefore they can't do anything. If we are spiritual beings then why does physical damage kill us? The "soul" should give us "energy", shouldn't it?


Originally posted by Vintage.Wine




So, one species die up to make for the increased soul demand? LOL Okay, so one question for you. If every member of every species start reproducing simultaneously, children won't be born due to lack of soul? Or there will be mass dying of some species and they will fall dead instantly? And who will decide the priority of the species which receive the soul?


Originally posted by Vintage.Wine



Time did not exist before Big Bang. And yes, we don't know what caused Big Bang. And the spheres and the orbits are there because they are the most stable state with least resistance. Nature always try to balance things out. And yes, unknown is there but we can't say he is the creator, not now.


Originally posted by Vintage.Wine




So, can you give me the range of electromagnetic spectrum that contains souls? It can be easily verified then. But, no. Most of the photos can be explained away


 Freethinka Tongue  Bonzer !! .Nice questions mon LOL...This debate should gather momentum now ...Alright I'm less sloshed right now ..So I ll make a clumsy effort to answer your questions..

@ Bold 1:  Why does physical damage kill us
..<<< This question is thought provoking and we might need to resort to analogies to answer that correctly ..Tell me this ..Why do you change your scruffy, worn out clothes ? You can still use em...You change them cause of two reasons .You need to look more presentable with a new spiffed outfit..Those old clothes are now useless for you ... There is a divine mechanism here ..A Body which is not functioning properly ..is the same as the worn out clothes...Like your buy new ones .( Some even seal em..Cough cough !  LOLthe soul as an energy abandons such diseased body and looks for a all new home ..Which means a newer body that can function well ...The memories ain't carried over ..They are lost too .Its a all new beginning of a fresh new life ... 'Vasansi jirnani yatha vihaya navani grihnati naroparani, tatha sharirani vihaya jirnani anyani samyati navani dehi'

Soul doesn't give us Energy ..Soul itself is an energy which needs a functional and fit body to dwell...Death is a permanent, irreversible  loss of consciousness, the memories ..much needed for every human being ...Imagine a situation where one becomes immortal .I bet they ll beg for death ..


 @ Bold 2:  That doesn't happen...But for the sake of debate let's assume it does..Even then no one knows how many souls are there..In a pre birth state ...Cause the theory is all Souls are a part of a source of mightier energy which can release infinite number of souls ...Aatma and Paramatma = The God ..The God as a concept behind all source of energy ...Not all energy from which has been released as souls ...So N number of souls can exist that ll support life not just on the earth but elsewhere to ...the places not known to humans...The civilizations in newer worlds ..Micro organism ...which remains unexplored ...

@ Bold 3:  I guess we should try and think more freely here  LOL.and not confine ourselves to the existing scientific knowledge and contort our view / imagination if we understand that science is yet not matured enough to understand many things ...No one from ancient times woulda believed we can fly across the continents within a matter of hours. But we do .. Now to the very important statement ..." Time didn't exist before the Big Bang' <<<<<<< LOL How could this be ?We might say we started measuring the time as a unit after that ...With that event as a starting point ...But actually that even wasn't the staring point ..How did big bang happen if nothing existed before that ? BIG BANG that released enormous amount of Gas and other Cosmic particles that engendered the cosmic bodies musta been caused as a result of a Pre Existing material ..Material existed which in turn means there was Time in which that material existed ...What will happen when the universe ends? All the stars die off ? They become ..Supernovas / Hyper novas and run outta energy after emitting that? SUN would die to ..so shall the biggest ever known Star VY in the constellation Canis Major ..which is a billion times bigger than the SUN and dispels energy at a massive rate ..It emits the same amount of energy each minute that the SUN emits in years .. he Universe would end ..But as the rule the energy can't be destroyed .It will Remain ..Another BIG BANG would happen and another worlds would float ..No this doesn't mean the times restarted itself..We as human assigned that a starting point far fetched back in time till  the first event that we know of.
 
 As you very rightly pointed out that the unknown exists ..That unknown who set those rules...that created the cosmic material  ..That unknown who has always existed...The same unknown who we call the GOD ..who is beyond our mundane senses and platonic scope...And we would do so until we prove otherwise..


@ Bold4:  Sure ...that is the Ultraviolet spectrum ..You musta noticed that a few  creatures like CATS abruptly gaze somewhere ...which we believe is nowhere .Cause nothing can be seen with our eyes at the place they look at ...Why ? Cause Cats can see ultraviolet objects...which is beyond the color spectrum that the humans can see. The photos snapped with such cameras when someone dies have shown shapes and images unidentifiable to us..Which some consider to be the souls or some outer / inner layers of that complex energy ..Its simple ..The soul would leave the diseased body and enter another body which is fit to live ...The procedure of that is occult ...But that's the only belief we can resort to unless we contradict the science and start believing that the energy was Created ..and that it didn't exist permanently , timelessly ..

Have ya ever tried performing planchet?  We ll do that together someday with my oujja board .LOL
and tak to the spirits ..And if you don't believe in the ghosts I can prove ya wrong right away by showing ya my picture ...Me ..the Only Living  Sweet Ghost LOL

To be continued ...Till the dooms day or IF's last day ..whichever happens first LOL << Kidding LOL


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