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If you believe in God, refute this! (Page 2)

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Freethinker112

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Freethinker112

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Posted: 05 August 2012 at 4:17am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Heart

I don't understand the difference. What is Universe to you, means existence of deity to someone else, but it means the same thing! Be it God or Universe both have always existed and have led to the existence of dinosaurs and now the human race. I am not talking about the clay molded figures that people pray too, I am talking about the belief of existence of something that is responsible for everything that happens. You can call it Universe if you want to, some people like to call it god. 
There are somethings even science is not able to prove, and this is exactly where it collides with beliefs. Finding about something that occurred millions of years before your existence is truly hard (nearly impossible) to determine, but the scientists are trying to figure it out. So while one is not sure about something like this, it is best not to force your beliefs on someone else. 

As i said before, when science doesn't have the answer it says so. And when it claims something, it has the proof to back it up. Universe is there, we can see it and observe it. But there is no single evidence of existence of God. And no, Universe is not the same thing as God. People say, God is a conscious being, doing things. Universe is just matter, it's not conscious and doesn't "do" things.

BTW, I am not forcing my belief. Smile I just want to know why people believe in God with no evidence of his existence.

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Posted: 05 August 2012 at 4:34am | IP Logged
Question: Do we really need to know how to grow the wheat  its types and qualities, how cheese is processed, how each vegetable is grown and stored and transported and chopped before we bite into that pizza slice?

Not sure whether God exists or not. So far we've both not disturbed each other. He/She/It does not know whether I exist or not, and I return the compliment.

Religion is the opium of the masses, so sayeth Karl Marx. I believe that consciously if you decide and venture out from your home - you would not be able to kill anyone. No one thinks before stepping out that today I need to set fire to so many homes and kill so many people.

Consciously, deliberately, it would be impossible to even raise your hand to hit someone. To cause injury,  one needs an impulse to lash out. Mostly driven by animal fear.

The fear that a cornered animal has that emboldens it to attack the assailant. That is the same impulse that works in the human brain to trigger a violent reaction. Religion has been known to trigger that reaction.

To me it is not the human construct to bind the society together, but rather a social construct that enables a set of people to assume a particular group identity. From the dawn of human society such group identities functioned to keep together one band of people together to aid in the hunt and later attacks/defense against other similar groups.

The primary purpose of religion therefore was not maintenance of society but in guiding its military capabilities. That is the function that religion has performed throughout human history.

Not sure I want to bow my head on such an altar.

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Angel-likeDevil

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Posted: 05 August 2012 at 10:46am | IP Logged
I dont believe that there's a body or something called God, that created the world. But yes, I do believe in God. For me existence is God. So, it wouldnt matter if I called "God" , God or simply "ABC" .. I most importantly see existence as God.. divine beauty. Existence is beautiful. Universe is. 
 
 
And, there's nothing evil or angelic. It's all the way MAN looks at it. There is nothing evil or bad... a "thing" is what it is. It is us that label things. Existance knows no good or bad... things are just the way they are.
 
 
Why people think 'god' created the world, etc? They have no answers.. that's why. I'd say, it is US that created a God... there was never a thing like God. But there was an existence, there has been a universe. And, I also believe in soul... afterall, you and I are a part existence.
 
It's once again, a MAN's mind. He wants to believe in something to feel secure, to keep going ahead, to throw his wishes at something, etc.
 
 
 
NOTE : I am NOT looking for an argument, merely just stated my views. 
 
 

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Summer3

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Posted: 05 August 2012 at 7:59pm | IP Logged
The...GOD
 
Well said Mr. God.

Freethinker112

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Posted: 05 August 2012 at 9:11pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Chitrashi

Question: Do we really need to know how to grow the wheat  its types and qualities, how cheese is processed, how each vegetable is grown and stored and transported and chopped before we bite into that pizza slice?

Well, yeah you don't need to have to have every background info on how anything works. But, the important fact is that everything is documented and when the need arises and you ask, you will be given a detailed explanation and all. But, the problem with God is like people say there is a pizza that nobody can see, fell, or eat. They can't tell you how it was made or who made it. But, it exists and you have to go by their word for it. Ermm

Originally posted by Chitrashi

Religion is the opium of the masses, so sayeth Karl Marx. I believe that consciously if you decide and venture out from your home - you would not be able to kill anyone. No one thinks before stepping out that today I need to set fire to so many homes and kill so many people. 

Consciously, deliberately, it would be impossible to even raise your hand to hit someone. To cause injury,  one needs an impulse to lash out. Mostly driven by animal fear. 

Well, I have to disagree here. Not all violence is impulsive. People plan murder, terrorists do years of planning and preparation for killing people. Those are not an act of moment, they are consciously planned actions of massacre.

Originally posted by Chitrashi

To me it is not the human construct to bind the society together, but rather a social construct that enables a set of people to assume a particular group identity. From the dawn of human society such group identities functioned to keep together one band of people together to aid in the hunt and later attacks/defense against other similar groups.

The primary purpose of religion therefore was not maintenance of society but in guiding its military capabilities. That is the function that religion has performed throughout human history.

Not sure I want to bow my head on such an altar.

Agree with the rest. Religion just served one function, to control the masses. People must have been free, each thinking for their own, and a thinking mind is the most important hindrance when you are trying to rule over people. Then religion was invented, all people following you blindly, ready to do anything a man said, in the name of God.

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sub_rosa

Freethinker112

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Posted: 05 August 2012 at 9:17pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Angel-likeDevil

I dont believe that there's a body or something called God, that created the world. But yes, I do believe in God. For me existence is God. So, it wouldnt matter if I called "God" , God or simply "ABC" .. I most importantly see existence as God.. divine beauty. Existence is beautiful. Universe is. 
 
 
And, there's nothing evil or angelic. It's all the way MAN looks at it. There is nothing evil or bad... a "thing" is what it is. It is us that label things. Existance knows no good or bad... things are just the way they are.
 
 
Why people think 'god' created the world, etc? They have no answers.. that's why. I'd say, it is US that created a God... there was never a thing like God. But there was an existence, there has been a universe. And, I also believe in soul... afterall, you and I are a part existence.
 
It's once again, a MAN's mind. He wants to believe in something to feel secure, to keep going ahead, to throw his wishes at something, etc.
 
 
 
NOTE : I am NOT looking for an argument, merely just stated my views. 
 
 

Since you have stepped in the lands of debate mansion, THOU SHALT NOT PASS WITHOUT AN  ARGUMENT! LOL

Agree with some of your views. people needed answers, so they created a construct called God, which is called God of gaps. But, now we have answers for many of the natural phenomena, it's time people stopped believing God is a person running things.

And please reply to this question regarding souls.

Originally posted by Himanshu

You say people die and soul takes birth again. If that was the case, the population should have remained constant. But once we are few hundred, now we are 7 billion. So, is there some soul factory for manufacturing?

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Posted: 05 August 2012 at 9:55pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by The...GOD

who created THE universe? its THE GOD . But who created the GOD? its us HUMANS- @@ Like they say astral world and higher DIMENSIONS do exists but ONLY in YOUR HEAD . So similarly EVERYTHING exists ONLY in your HEAD. If you EXIST, the universe EXISTS and if you DON'T, it doesn't. @@  But  if YOU connect all LIVING and NON-LIVING beings  like dots, you would see it shaping into a Beautiful picture and that is THE GOD. 

Now, that's illogical. If something is imaginary i.e. created by our mind, how can it create real things like Universe? Imaginary things can't manipulate reality. There is no proof of existence of higher dimensions, they are just mathematical abstracts currently. Whether they really exist is yet to be known. And if they do and we find them, they are not in our head but in real space. And no, Universe's existence does not depend on our existence. Age of universe is 14.6 billion years and we have existed for a mere 100,000 years. So, we are just a blink of eye in the grand scheme of cosmos. Universe existed for all this time and if humanity gets wiped from earth, it will continue to exist.
 

Originally posted by The...GOD

There is SOMETHING that exists beyond the boundaries of this Universe that we haven't thought ABOUT. This universe is PLAIN SIMPLE -- just like an animal or plant  would perceive it to BE, but human brain that undergoes  conditioning and learning can come up with ENDLESS theories about WHO is the GOD is and how he/she started this UNIVERSE ---@@@

The Universe, by definition, means everything there is. So, there is nothing beyond the boundaries of Universe, because Universe is infinite and have no boundaries. I would not call Universe plain simple, because it is so beautiful and so mind boggling vast and anything you imagine is a part of Universe because your brain is a part of Universe. And there are already theories about origin of Universe, Big Bang theory, which has some good evidences. God on the other hand, zero evidence. just because our mind can come up with something doesn't make it true. Otherwise, Harry potter is true, and so are fairies and Santa Claus.


Originally posted by The...GOD

JUST LIKE, a single CELL in BODY, with its given CONSCIOUSNESS is not capable of UNDERSTANDING the existence of entire HUMAN BODY, similarly a HUMAN with given consciousness is capable of  mainly UNDERSTANDING physical boundaries of the UNIVERSE. But in REALITY, the universe HAS no boundaries, no beginning and NO END. @@ We ALL, in some way or other,  in some form of ENERGY contribute to existence of this UNIVERSE. So who created the universe ? Its EACH OF US. and who created the GOD ? Again its ALL OF US @@@ :/D :/D :/D 

Well, we don't even know exactly what consciousness is, so you can't say whether consciousness comes from one cell or many, or whether individual cells have enough consciousness to understand our body. And no, our consciousness are perfectly capable of understanding that Universe is infinite, because it was a human who proposed that and you understand it and you are also human. And no, all of humanity combined has not enough matter to create the universe. We have just existed for 100,000 years. It's the universe which created us. And yes, the concept of god is made by human, and as I said before, just because you can imagine anything doesn't make it true.


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Posted: 06 August 2012 at 12:46am | IP Logged
"What would you say if someone told you that he had seen a loaded ship without a captain and a crew going through a strong storm, but sailing well towards a safe harbor all by itself ?"

Does your human reasoning/intelligence/common sense accepts this ?

"If your reasoning/intelligence/common sense does not accept the story of a ship without a leading crew, then how do you accept a whole universe with all its varied conditions and complex nature running without a Creator in full charge ?"



Edited by Aya. - 06 August 2012 at 12:48am

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