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If you believe in God, refute this! (Page 148)

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return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 09 December 2012 at 11:36am | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Universe.


Hate to nitpick but why did you use three variables? That adds to the confusion :)


He was making sure to cover all three - father, son and holy ghost.

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K.Universe.

Goldie

K.Universe.

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Posted: 09 December 2012 at 2:13pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Freethinker112

Can't he use a three character variable? Wink LOL


Originally posted by Beyond_the_Veil

@K, FT is right. XYZ was a name, not three variables. Substitute X for G, Y for O and Z for D


Originally posted by return_to_hades

He was making sure to cover all three - father, son and holy ghost


HAHA! Clever!

But in math, we always use single symbols for variables and constants. Ex: t, x ,y, z for variables and a, b, c for constants.

I will get to the other stuff in a bit.

K.Universe.

Goldie

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Posted: 09 December 2012 at 2:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Freethinker112

How do you pick apart this one? That's a sincere question, not a joke or sarcasm. Smile


First things first. As Angie and BTV already pointed out, there are many articles available online that refute the omnipotent paradox, on logical, mathematical and physical grounds.

I don't want to repeat them here; I wouldn't get any credit if I do so.

But then again, even if I come up with my own analysis, there are no guarantees that it wouldn't coincide with what's already been said and used to refute this. Simply because I haven't read all the articles that were written on this topic and who knows how many people think alike in this world?!

Usually, when presented with any question, I prefer to think aloud by breaking it down into simpler more atomic questions. Such as:

where is this rock going to be located after creation?
how much space is the rock going to occupy?
how much mass does the rock have?
how much gravitational force is acting on it?
am i  going to end up with arithmetic that involves infinite quantities?
what does the act of lifting entail? is it lifting with a crowbar kind of tool or is it lifting with bare hands? (tools are better than hands :)
is the weight (assuming some gravitational force acting on the rock) uniformly distributed along the length of the mass? is tilting the rock the same as lifting?

And then there is the practical everyday physics that prevents us from speculating about the said rock. We know that matter is only 4% of the universe. Even if the rock is made up of all the matter that exists in the universe, we still know that it can coalesce into a dot (it happened once in the past) as well as it can rip apart (happening now),both phenomena due to gravity, so we know that force would "better" mass when it comes to it. But if all the universe is filled with matter, nothing is moving because there is no room for force to act on it? In that case, it is illogical to pose such a question and yet  expect logic to lead us to a true/false answer?

So, it's not God who is facing the dilemma here. We are the ones facing the dilemma owing to the way we constructed our language (how did we define the word) and our logic (is the contradiction arising from a self reference?).


K.Universe.

Goldie

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Posted: 09 December 2012 at 3:05pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Freethinker112

When do we say we have understood a thing? At the smallest level, full differentiated, or at the highest level, fully integrated. I think maybe we  can say we know things when we know every step of the process. Like the math textbooks. You see the question and you may peek at the answer in the back, but unless you can go through the whole process, you have not understood the thing.


So, in other words, we have to experience it to understand it. Because, going through the whole process is nothing but experiencing it.

That could be one probable explanation as to why the universe itself exists. To experience. Don't ask me to experience what.

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K.Universe.

Goldie

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Posted: 09 December 2012 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Beyond_the_Veil

I hope one day we merge with God and know all there is to know... ErmmConfused

So, is it safe to say that you attach more importance to "knowing" than "merging" in the above scenario? Your "goal" to "merge" is borne out of the need to know it all? I think I can understand that.


But frankly the question still remains. Let's say God can do anything. Can he destroy himself?

Is there a restriction for the event to happen if the answer to your question turns out to be an "yes"? In other words, let's say the answer to your question is in the affirmative. Then what?



I will stick to what I said in one my earlier posts in this thread. I am beginning to think that it is not a "true or false" world, It is a "true and false" world. I haven't worked out this theory yet. Just a hunch based on quantum superposition.

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Vinzy

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Posted: 09 December 2012 at 10:17pm | IP Logged

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ethereal..

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ethereal..

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Posted: 11 December 2012 at 10:48am | IP Logged
Hey freethinker :)
congratulations- your thread has completed 149 pages :)
this topic has some excellent content..enjoyed reading every page.
Don't know if you got any satisfactory answers to your questions (i didn't!), but still!
I must thank k.universe, birdie, vintu, aya, rth and all other active participants...and you too- do start more such topics...wish u all the best.

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Freethinker112

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Posted: 11 December 2012 at 10:55am | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Universe.

Originally posted by Freethinker112

When do we say we have understood a thing? At the smallest level, full differentiated, or at the highest level, fully integrated. I think maybe we  can say we know things when we know every step of the process. Like the math textbooks. You see the question and you may peek at the answer in the back, but unless you can go through the whole process, you have not understood the thing.


So, in other words, we have to experience it to understand it. Because, going through the whole process is nothing but experiencing it.

That could be one probable explanation as to why the universe itself exists. To experience. Don't ask me to experience what.

Itself? LOL

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K.Universe.

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