Pregnancy, Abortion and Cancer...

Posted: 11 years ago
Jeevika's pregnant and Manvi's cancer is intensifying...

Cancer wise: As far as treatments for leukemia go, there's a huge load of options available. From stem cells to experimental adoptive T-cell therapy. I volunteer once a week at the Paediatric Oncology Department at the city hospital where I live, and believe me, I've seen quite a lot of things. The whole notion that Manvi can only have bone marrow transplantation is wrong on so many levels!

For one, BMT is recommended more specifically for children suffering with cancer as there is a greater chance for success when compared to adults. So for that, the alternative which is stem cell transplantation is a far more widely accepted and effective therapy for a young woman like Manvi. Both these options can not be performed on pregnant women, but guess what? The pregnancy can actually aid in terms of stem cell transplantation.

The stem cells are taken from the umbilical cord and the placenta straight after the birth in a treatment process called cord blood transplantation. The line isn't drawn with pregnancy disabling the donation of stem cells. 

But as this is a serial and the fact that the writers and CVs haven't actually been taking the cancer aspect of the show seriously, they will decide it would be *better* that there is only one treatment process in the whole wide world that Manvi can have and that these treatments mentioned above do not exist. And to follow through with that, they'll give Jeevika an ultimatum - Manvi or the child...

I don't really have faith in these CVs so my best bet is that they will go down the abortion route, the hows and whys and whats is too mundane to even think about. The abortion aspect should be given the due it deserves unlike what we've seen in a hundred different serials. Abortion is trivialised too much these days as if it is the norm, the easy way out and that it doesn't have any consequences.

I really don't want the CVs to be messing around with abortions so if they decide to go down that route, it should be treated very carefully because it is an extremely controversial topic.  Just to show the special behna relationship - to stand true to the title - I have to ask, is it really worth going down this path?

In the instance that the abortion track does come to fruition:

Was it necessary to show a unrealistic situation such as a sibling vs child scenario, and in the process, potentially be playing around with the concept of abortions, just to showcase a bond between two sisters?

At the heart of it all will lie Jeevika. (Once again this is all hypothetical...) And the way the writers decide to engage in the topic will determine the answer to my question above. The physical trauma of an abortion will last a few months at most but the mental trauma will carry with you for a lifetime. I really don't want this trivialised to a simple yes/no decision where the impact is minuscule.

(Point to note here: if the CVs do choose the abortion route in the scenario that Manvi's situation degrades rapidly, medically speaking, Jeevika wouldn't be able to donate until about two months after the abortion. Putting this is realistic terms, carrying on with the pregnancy could potentially deny her from donating stem cells for the same amount of time as if she'd had the abortion due to the waiting to donate in the period after the abortion was conducted. But CVs have never been medically switched on, so oh well...)

For one, Jeevika's destroying her child: a child which she helped make and would be denying the innocent being the chance to live. This decision should not be made lightly at all, no matter how close the sister's relationship is. The show has always pushed itself forward, not due to the plot, but due to the emotional relationships between the characters. What the CVs have failed to do medically, they've thrived emotionally so I really hope CVs stay true to the emotional aspect of the show.

Now on a bit of a side note:

This is all hypothetical, because you can never be too certain with daily dramas. But, if this does work out to be true, could there not be a different way in which to show the 'Ek Hazaaron Mein' bit?

Manvi's personality shows that she won't be able to fathom her sister killing her niece or nephew for her sake. She'll understand the reasoning behind it, but she will never be able to accept it which would put a formidable strain on the behna relationship. It would be a one in a thousand relationship, but I can't help but imagine that there would be a tinge of perpetual sorrow and despair surrounding the two based on the extents of what they can do for that relationship.

And I guess that is why the relationship is one in a thousand. What the eyes of the world will see as something alien and unthinkable would be seen as acceptable and justifiable through their eyes. And through that, whether we like the relationship or not, or whether we agree with it or not is irrelevant and always will be irrelevant because the relationship was never created to be liked but to portray the extent of what love can do.
Posted: 11 years ago
Oh Sabeeha, why didn't you post this earlier? [:p] If I didn't have to wake up early I would have taken time to write a response. Fantastic post as always. 

I am pretty big doof when it comes to the medical aspects to the entire cancer, the treatments and basically the factual side to it. There are some obvious bloopers which even an idiot would pick but my knowledge on the other possible treatments is minimal so I would take your word for it. They probably could show an alternate treatment rather than going down the donation route but the only reason I look past this fact is because I think this was always part of the story since it's conception so in my mind it's always been inevitable.

The ace card the writers have is the emotional aspect like you said (even though recently that lost its touch too). They will be thriving on that for sure especially for the main relationship of the show.

Assuming J does abort (she may miscarry the child instead) ...Is it fair or just that Jeevika gives up the child's life for her sister? There is no right answer to that and I think when the time comes, I would love to discuss the ethical side to the whole issue but for that I have to wait how it's all played out. They CANNOT mess it up...! BUT at the end of the day, it IS a fictional show so this child v sister scenario may be a very extreme one but kudos to the original writer for coming up with such a plot. We always want see different stories to be told right?

I already feel that emotional connection the characters are having with this unborn child and ironically it's Manvi who is the happiest of them all. Now she would totally understand WHY Jeevika would take such a step but yes it could turn out to be EXTREMELY strenuous for their relationship itself. We all know that it's kind of obvious that Viren will be distraught (and how!!) but how will Manvi be able to face Jeevika after this? How will they and their families ever be able to move on normally? How will they be understanding of such a relationship?

I think if there has been any relationship in this show which has been shown in a 'not-so-positive' light, it is that of the Behnas hence they attract criticism too. But like you said, it's not about whether we like it or not, it's about the extent they can go for each other and what happens as a result of it.
 
Ok post became too long! Night :)) Please forgive the spelling/grammatical errors.
Edited by *Reemz* - 11 years ago
Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by *Reemz*



Between guests and Iftar and what not, haven't had the time to come online so this post is a couple hours late :L But yup basically, it's the old game of wait and watch. Will come back to your reply later so goodnight :)

(Just noticed the time, blah it's 12!)
Edited by sabeeha - 11 years ago
Posted: 11 years ago

I really don't know how to comment on your marvellous topic. Such I great post :D

I personally have very limited medical knowledge all I know is what I seen in shows and through my education.

 

Medically this show has not been strong. It has been disappointing, as it has such a chance to show not only the emotionally side of cancer, (which they have done beautifully) but also the medical side of it. In regards to diagnosing, treating and the physical effects to the person.       

 

The pregnancy and cancer track as opened the writers up with many options, but in their case they all seem dangerous. As you said it may not have been necessary to show a women having to choose between her child or sibling. That being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Abortion is not something that can be taken lightly, it effects lasts a lifetime not only for the women but in this case her entire family.  But can the writers be trusted to show their dilemma and this issue with the sensitivity it deserves?

Agreed Maanvi's character would not agree to the fact, but will she be in a state to argue?

Stem cell transplant is something which is I think relatively unknown to many, and could be a great use of medical knowledge and expertise. But will it infuse drama for the show? Which is what the writers are always looking for, rather than the fundamental side. (On a side note, for stem cell transplant to be effective, does the cells need to be scanned before fertilisation? Sorry if my wording is incorrect)           

 

Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by -Pj-


I really don't know how to comment on your marvellous topic. Such I great post :D

I personally have very limited medical knowledge all I know is what I seen in shows and through my education.

 

Medically this show has not been strong. It has been disappointing, as it has such a chance to show not only the emotionally side of cancer, (which they have done beautifully) but also the medical side of it. In regards to diagnosing, treating and the physical effects to the person.       

 

The pregnancy and cancer track as opened the writers up with many options, but in their case they all seem dangerous. As you said it may not have been necessary to show a women having to choose between her child or sibling. That being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Abortion is not something that can be taken lightly, it effects lasts a lifetime not only for the women but in this case her entire family.  But can the writers be trusted to show their dilemma and this issue with the sensitivity it deserves?

Agreed Maanvi's character would not agree to the fact, but will she be in a state to argue?

Stem cell transplant is something which is I think relatively unknown to many, and could be a great use of medical knowledge and expertise. But will it infuse drama for the show? Which is what the writers are always looking for, rather than the fundamental side. (On a side note, for stem cell transplant to be effective, does the cells need to be scanned before fertilisation? Sorry if my wording is incorrect)           

 


Hey thanks for the reply :) But like Reema, I've got an early morning too :L

So I'm just gonna reply back to the bit in bold for now :)

Stem cells don't just include the cells that make up feotuses. Stem cells are generally any 'immature' or unspecialised cells. One of the treatments that's used quite commonly for leukemia in adults is stem cell transplantation where either the patient themselves or the donor are injected with growth injections under the skin. This stimulates the growth of stem cells which are then collected via a machine that works a bit like a kidney dialysis machine in that the blood is pumped round the machine and the stem cells separated. This is one of the more widely used treatments as opposed to bone marrow transplant.

On the other side, you can have cord blood transplantation. The umbilical cord and placenta contain plenty of stem cells which can be utilised effectively if the patient and donor are a match. I think nowadays, there's a whole social taboo on the words 'stem cells' because they're related to the fertilisation and destruction of embryos in labs but stem cells are produced naturally in the body.

PS: My medical knowledge is based upon what doctor's have told me and the research I've done into this so please don't expect this to be 100% accurate :L The best person to ask would be someone with real medical authority :)
Posted: 11 years ago
First of all, what an excellent post! πŸ‘

When I started watching this show, I always hoped that they would take the issue of cancer seriously and in some cases they do but it always seems to me that it is a little half-hearted. What I mean to say is that they will take a track such as finding treatments for her cancer but then after a few episodes, they will conclude it by stating that it isn't possible for her to be treated in that certain way and she would be better off with her old treatment. However, as you mentioned above, there are a few different treatments available. I would have preferred the CVs to probably try and research a few of these alongside having an emotional track with other characters. It would almost become a balance. I'm not the greatest with medical knowledge (heck I have absolutely no knowledge in it) but you did mention that there are the Stem Cells and T-cell therapy which are worth a research.  

However, again as you mentioned, the winner for this drama is the emotional bonds in it. Now an abortion track would guarantee them a lot of emotion but I think the CVs should understand what they are picking up here. Another controversial issue! There will be ethical and moral issues attached to this and it's extremely complicated because either way Jeevika will be the most affected. It will cause martial problems as Viren will definitely be distraught and I don't think Manvi would stand for this either. Either way, it would be a loss to Jeevika which I think is the most upsetting part. Although, the USP of this drama was and still is the behna's rishta which I think the CVs will try to live upto, but should it really be at the expense of a child? It's just too much of a sensitive subject, in my opinion. If the CVs do choose this path, kudos to them if they get it right and also for trying to show something different in this drama. 

BUT alas we shall never know until they decide to write it and air it! it is a drama afterall, anything can happen! 

Once again, an excellent post *applause* πŸ˜Š
Posted: 11 years ago
almost a MONTH back in zainabs post (current) on the medical perspective.. I had said the VERY SAME THING.. about placental stem cell therapy (not even going into the induced pleuripotency route or the embryonic stem cell debate) wld be the best option and its a practical option in India itself.. and I said the very same thing about BMT esp in progressive AML but then again.. I will never expect desi tv to really respect science and medicine.. we are but a bunch of goofs to waste our entire life working towards human welfare exploring options while media (indian or international) only sensationalizes it and alienates society more from the real science by showing weird mutations and clones etc..

I personally have a threshold and on principle ground will not sit through a trivialized abortion track.. and end up feeling bitter.. am pro-choice.. (as in not strictly pro-life) but the choice needs to be validated.. I sincerely cant help not feel bitter about the behna or for tht matter Jeevika if such happens.. and its hypthetical.. idk I was already ranting to few friends - what kinda options I would explore if I were viren at that point and I so hope they show him flawed and real than the supporting joan of arc and live up to the best pati tag. .there's a limit to everything really.. and without conviction character is but a mere sketch.. but oh well they may just show miscarriage .. even at my optimistic best i dont expect sensitivity.. it'll just be wayyy too many tears masking the sensibility 
Posted: 11 years ago
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Sonali...Hi...I am kermit the hermit..I find what I am looking for ..and then I can't stop croaking..πŸ˜†
 
So good to see you..
 
am not going in the details of stem cells ..did it to death in my post..
 
had to say...
 
KHOON KA RISHTA HAI HAMARA...I am almost certain that it means Jeevika will somehow be giving a marrow transplant to Maanvi...i e...she will be the donor..Cord cells..hah..CV's don't know it exists..
 
They have been very telescopic in their vision...Yes they depicted Maanvi's pain very well but the rest of the scnario leaves much to be desired...
 
The diagnosis...the fact Maanvi seems to be having chemo..but it seems to stuck in time with no continuity...apart from hair loss and joint pain...nothing else...The is no clear charted plan for her..
 
Jeevika is worrying about her sister..Viren is relying on GOD..and Virat is wooing his girl..
 
Arrey what happened to the damned Internet...and Google..How about looking at research..
 
But I forget it is not a medical show..so i sit back back and let all the oddities pass over me..
 
The pregancy track will somehow bring maanvi's trreatment to the fore..and also we get closer to the brother's fallout ..which they shall..Jeevika will naturally have an abortion..not a termination...but Maanvi will not accept it ...so it is all looking to be more doom and gloom and I guess the CV's are giving us the hype of Virman Shaadi to make up for the bloodbath..that follows..
Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by current


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Sonali...Hi...I am kermit the hermit..I find what I am looking for ..and then I can't stop croaking..πŸ˜†
 
🀣 I loveee the muppet show.. so I am not complaining here..
So good to see you..
 always a  pleasure πŸ˜Š
am not going in the details of stem cells ..did it to death in my post..
 
m one stuck-o-tape-meter when it comes to misuse science posts..πŸ˜† nothing gets me to post on this forum.. but m such a sucker for one topic on the medical aspect

had to say...
we DOπŸ˜†
 
KHOON KA RISHTA HAI HAMARA...I am almost certain that it means Jeevika will somehow be giving a marrow transplant to Maanvi...i e...she will be the donor..Cord cells..hah..CV's don't know it exists..
 
not once do I question or challenge tht path the CVs will take but like u mention the makers have lost sight of the goal in most of their track and here just on convictional ground I hope they turn schizophrenic againπŸ˜† its not so tough for them is itπŸ˜†

They have been very telescopic in their vision...Yes they depicted Maanvi's pain very well but the rest of the scnario leaves much to be desired...
 
The diagnosis...the fact Maanvi seems to be having chemo..but it seems to stuck in time with no continuity...apart from hair loss and joint pain...nothing else...The is no clear charted plan for her..

trust me.. never was the charted plan.. I almost have a feeling for 6 months till they revealed blood cancer they were toying with other options like brain tumor too.. I cant get over the only-symptom shown for the longest time was holding head and fever.. only when they took a pick did they show those spots etc ...

Jeevika is worrying about her sister..Viren is relying on GOD..and Virat is wooing his girl..
 
that cracked me up.. but sooo true.. and how saddd

Arrey what happened to the damned Internet...and Google..How about looking at research..

 but u see they did.. J spent all night reading recipes for cancer patient diet.. and Virat spent all night finding a gfn cancer research center that was just anal and not even objective about the future options.. m sure google is happy Viren didnt get to it.. one less abuse.. 

But I forget it is not a medical show..so i sit back back and let all the oddities pass over me..
 
The pregancy track will somehow bring maanvi's trreatment to the fore..and also we get closer to the brother's fallout ..which they shall..Jeevika will naturally have an abortion..not a termination...but Maanvi will not accept it ...so it is all looking to be more doom and gloom and I guess the CV's are giving us the hype of Virman Shaadi to make up for the bloodbath..that follows..

I swear I qs myself whyyy I took to a SP show.. their 'soch nayi' tagline is just as pretentious and pseudo.. as most of their shows are .. all about old wine new bottle.. yes the packaging is attractive (read presentation and the actors etc).. but they too can hold yer interest for that long.. i seriously cant or dont want to see another tear drop for a month.. without wanting to infect their rooms with nitrous oxide.. the amount they made ppl cry over heartbreak when cancer is busy twiddling thumbs .. sighhh

the other day a friend quoted a line from a recent movie- randomly.. (doubt she follows EHM) and I just could help laugh.. 

"Na salim na.. aur bhi gham hain duniya mein .. mohabbat ke ilawa" 

as for VM shadi.. the makers dug a hole with the bald track.. and I am curious to see how they fit in the SP-sque aesthetics or do they make it yet another exception making with a low key wedding if there is one in the offing.. as u say before the blood bath (khoon ka rishtas etc) unleashes on us mediocre souls.. 
Edited by sonali.19281 - 11 years ago
Posted: 11 years ago
@Sonali: haven't been on the forum for over a month now so it's good to see fans still debating the medical aspect of the show despite more or less knowing what to expect from the writers.

@current: would reply properly, but it is the early morning and I'm extremely tired but something you wrote forced me to reply.

In terms of dramatics, wouldn't a spontaneous abortion not merit the same degree of emotional turmoil that a full on termination would? The whole purpose of the show is undoubtebly to emphasise this one in a thousand relationship but a miscarriage doesn't really hold the same weight as an abortion would.

Jeevika's termination would be far more controversial and actually would bring forth the elements in which the writers want to show the usp of the show, but an 'act-of-God' wouldn't really do much for the story in regards to the sisters except opening the door for Manvi's treatment. The whole purpose of the show is to show the unique bond through the cancer, with the culmination of the tracks mounting up to Jeevika's 'sacrifice' and I dunno, it somehow doesn't seem as effective through a spontaneous abortion than it does a termination.

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