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Shakuntala, a real mother (Page 3)

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Posted: 23 July 2012 at 10:48am | IP Logged
Originally posted by corvette

Thrustiing yourself upon someon is never going to necessarily endear you to that person or his family
 
If love and acceptance is what ASY wanted He could have gone about it another way
 
As for Shakuntala - I totally agree that her quiet dignity is appealing,
 
But at the same time, her son rode roughshod over her when he overreached her and demanded to stay in the Haveli - exactly why would she support her son for this?
 
Isnt it insulting in a way to al the sacrifices she no doubt made - as if to say having a loving mother is simply not enough? I have to discover the father that rejected me in order to feel whole?
 
I think it is...
 
ASY isnt the first and wont be the last - but as an educated man he should have held his head high, been proud of his mother and declared he doesnt need an absent father of the blood - his mother did a grand job of mother and father all of her own. No way does society require you to have to decalre whether or not you are illegitimate in order to get somewhere in life.
 
 
 
 
I agree that thrusting yourself on someone and his family isn't necessarily going to endear you to them.  But Abhimanyu knew the kind of people was dealing with from the beginning.   However, based on your first point, what about what Krishna did to Pratigya and the entire Saxena family?  He stalked her, kept her from leaving the city, getting engaged, and pretty much doing anything.  Do you think anyone was happy about that wedding?  Even Krishna's own parents objected to it because of caste.  And then, eventually Krishna did get his hard-won acceptance from the Saxenas and his own wife.  He won her heart, in fact as we all saw during the consummation scene on the rooftop.  It's not like Abhimanyu took a gun and forced SS to announce to everyone who he was.  He didn't file a case against him either.  How would Abhimanyu's tactics be any less forceful than his half-brother Krishna?  I would not expect Shakti to ever accept this man, because all he really cares about is money and wealth.  I don't know about the rest, as it's up to the cvs. 
 
 
As for Abhimanyu "going about it another way", that statement could apply equally to Krishna.  Krishna went out of his way to call up Pratigya's house and tell her he didn't like beauty parlor-styled hair, he stormed in the middle of her sangeet with his friends, he beat up her fiance and ruined her name by doing so, and thrust a gun on them in a city bus.  Would you expect Pratigya and her family to accept Krishna and run into his arms based on everything he had done?  She wouldn't so much as accept a chocolate bar from him, let alone a 22K gold necklace when they first got married.  He alienated her not unlike the way Abhimanyu alienated the Thakurs.  
 
 
I could half agree with your point about Abhimanyu standing up and saying a loving mother is enough.  However, if SS conceived him out of love, then shouldn't he stand up for that love?  After all, the man conceived three children with Amma and we have all seen how little respect he has given the woman in the past.  She seems little more than an incubator to me.  The way he has treated Shakuntala is different, it's actually affectionate relatively speaking.  He doesn't treat her like a low-caste woman, he treats her like a woman.  Period.  It's a person's inclination whether a mother is enough, or a father is enough.  Not every child is blessed with two parents in his or her life.  However, SS is still alive and kicking and one could argue that Abhimanyu has not only a right to know his real father but a right to his name.  I don't think he is trying to say his mother's love isn't enough, his mother seems to have the biggest heart I have ever seen.  I think he felt it was an insult to both of them to have to carry on the charade of having Sudama Yadav's name as that was a lie and the whole village knew it.  You think noone in a small village is going to notice SS visiting Shakuntala?  As ThatOneGal has stated in her post, it is a male-dominated society in much of the world, including rural India.  So in that respect, noone is forcing Abhimanyu to declare illegitimacy why should he be forced to declare his adopted father as his real one?  This man has gone through an identity crisis, one serious enough to make him seek out his real father and endure multiple beatings, a poisoning, and then being dumped from his hospital bed while unconscious.  In many major cities in India, the first question strangers will openly ask you is what your father does for a living.  Never mind what the mother does, it's always the father.  It may be an idealism to say that one's legitimacy is not an issue in getting somewhere in life.         
 
 
I think SS secretly respects Abhimanyu for having the guts to stand up to him, and the brains to make something of himself.  Whether or not he confirms this, we will all see.  The man was ready to give anything just to save the guy when he was badly injured, even so far as pleading with his favorite son to give it.  You don't do that unless you really care about someone. 

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Posted: 23 July 2012 at 10:48am | IP Logged
Originally posted by corvette

Thrustiing yourself upon someon is never going to necessarily endear you to that person or his family
 
If love and acceptance is what ASY wanted He could have gone about it another way
 
As for Shakuntala - I totally agree that her quiet dignity is appealing,
 
But at the same time, her son rode roughshod over her when he overreached her and demanded to stay in the Haveli - exactly why would she support her son for this?
 
Isnt it insulting in a way to al the sacrifices she no doubt made - as if to say having a loving mother is simply not enough? I have to discover the father that rejected me in order to feel whole?
 
I think it is...
 
ASY isnt the first and wont be the last - but as an educated man he should have held his head high, been proud of his mother and declared he doesnt need an absent father of the blood - his mother did a grand job of mother and father all of her own. No way does society require you to have to decalre whether or not you are illegitimate in order to get somewhere in life.
 
 


@bold..Fully agree...If one has gone thru this one can understand this and know how wrong ASY has been in dealing and in someways disrespecting his mother's upbringing, only if one moves away from ASY as the face but look at what he has done to achieve it..No offense but my POV...

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Posted: 23 July 2012 at 5:14pm | IP Logged
Very nice post. Shakuntala n Abhi proved once again that they r far more civilized than the inmates of JN (janglee niwas). ASY addressing mean KN as bhaiya says a lot about the difference between a civilized human being n an uncultured beast.

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trina_saras

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Posted: 23 July 2012 at 5:49pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ssrbaqri

Very nice post. Shakuntala n Abhi proved once again that they r far more civilized than the inmates of JN (janglee niwas). ASY addressing mean KN as bhaiya says a lot about the difference between a civilized human being n an uncultured beast.
 
 
 
 
Thank you.  I agree with you, Abhimanyu giving this guy as much respect as he did says volumes about the kind of man he is, and what depravity Shakti represents.  My hat's off to him the way he handled them all.  Clap
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Posted: 24 July 2012 at 3:24am | IP Logged
Originally posted by trina_one

Originally posted by corvette

Thrustiing yourself upon someon is never going to necessarily endear you to that person or his family
 
If love and acceptance is what ASY wanted He could have gone about it another way
 
As for Shakuntala - I totally agree that her quiet dignity is appealing,
 
But at the same time, her son rode roughshod over her when he overreached her and demanded to stay in the Haveli - exactly why would she support her son for this?
 
Isnt it insulting in a way to al the sacrifices she no doubt made - as if to say having a loving mother is simply not enough? I have to discover the father that rejected me in order to feel whole?
 
I think it is...
 
ASY isnt the first and wont be the last - but as an educated man he should have held his head high, been proud of his mother and declared he doesnt need an absent father of the blood - his mother did a grand job of mother and father all of her own. No way does society require you to have to decalre whether or not you are illegitimate in order to get somewhere in life.
 
 
 
 
I agree that thrusting yourself on someone and his family isn't necessarily going to endear you to them.  But Abhimanyu knew the kind of people was dealing with from the beginning.   However, based on your first point, what about what Krishna did to Pratigya and the entire Saxena family?  He stalked her, kept her from leaving the city, getting engaged, and pretty much doing anything.  Do you think anyone was happy about that wedding?  Even Krishna's own parents objected to it because of caste.  And then, eventually Krishna did get his hard-won acceptance from the Saxenas and his own wife.  He won her heart, in fact as we all saw during the consummation scene on the rooftop.  It's not like Abhimanyu took a gun and forced SS to announce to everyone who he was.  He didn't file a case against him either.  How would Abhimanyu's tactics be any less forceful than his half-brother Krishna?  I would not expect Shakti to ever accept this man, because all he really cares about is money and wealth.  I don't know about the rest, as it's up to the cvs. 
 
 
As for Abhimanyu "going about it another way", that statement could apply equally to Krishna.  Krishna went out of his way to call up Pratigya's house and tell her he didn't like beauty parlor-styled hair, he stormed in the middle of her sangeet with his friends, he beat up her fiance and ruined her name by doing so, and thrust a gun on them in a city bus.  Would you expect Pratigya and her family to accept Krishna and run into his arms based on everything he had done?  She wouldn't so much as accept a chocolate bar from him, let alone a 22K gold necklace when they first got married.  He alienated her not unlike the way Abhimanyu alienated the Thakurs.  
 
 
I could half agree with your point about Abhimanyu standing up and saying a loving mother is enough.  However, if SS conceived him out of love, then shouldn't he stand up for that love?  After all, the man conceived three children with Amma and we have all seen how little respect he has given the woman in the past.  She seems little more than an incubator to me.  The way he has treated Shakuntala is different, it's actually affectionate relatively speaking.  He doesn't treat her like a low-caste woman, he treats her like a woman.  Period.  It's a person's inclination whether a mother is enough, or a father is enough.  Not every child is blessed with two parents in his or her life.  However, SS is still alive and kicking and one could argue that Abhimanyu has not only a right to know his real father but a right to his name.  I don't think he is trying to say his mother's love isn't enough, his mother seems to have the biggest heart I have ever seen.  I think he felt it was an insult to both of them to have to carry on the charade of having Sudama Yadav's name as that was a lie and the whole village knew it.  You think noone in a small village is going to notice SS visiting Shakuntala?  As ThatOneGal has stated in her post, it is a male-dominated society in much of the world, including rural India.  So in that respect, noone is forcing Abhimanyu to declare illegitimacy why should he be forced to declare his adopted father as his real one?  This man has gone through an identity crisis, one serious enough to make him seek out his real father and endure multiple beatings, a poisoning, and then being dumped from his hospital bed while unconscious.  In many major cities in India, the first question strangers will openly ask you is what your father does for a living.  Never mind what the mother does, it's always the father.  It may be an idealism to say that one's legitimacy is not an issue in getting somewhere in life.         
 
 
I think SS secretly respects Abhimanyu for having the guts to stand up to him, and the brains to make something of himself.  Whether or not he confirms this, we will all see.  The man was ready to give anything just to save the guy when he was badly injured, even so far as pleading with his favorite son to give it.  You don't do that unless you really care about someone. 
 
Your tenacity is worthy of respect but I'm afraid I'm gonna beg to differ - we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
 
I dont live in rural India to have to understand this apparent injustice to Abhimanu - nor have the CVs depicted anything such as you have described by reading between the lines and arriving at your conclusions - "born out of love" "the injustice of being illegitimate" the latter in particular just sounds like something from a previous century to me...
 
As for the comparisons with Krishna - (why the comparison required to justify I'm not sure )  even if you do - two wrongs dont make a right in my book.
 
For me, the scene from yesterday did not make up for ASY's behaviour, neither did it make sense to me. Having caused the hungama he now proposes to make a quiet exit - what????? Youve got to be joking!!
 
So if it gave ASY some form of peace of mind - good luck to him - but the peace of mind still seems weird to me and he doesnt seem to have a conscience in considering what his single act has done to a whole load of others.
 
Your topic started out talking about Shakuntala - and I agreed this point already to a degree with you already - am not converted to the rest but hey ho!
 
@ssbaqri - dont even get me started!!!!LOL 

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Posted: 24 July 2012 at 3:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by trina_one

 
 
he beat up her fiance and ruined her name by doing so
When?I Think You Are Forgetting Something...Wacko


Edited by -aHnAf- - 24 July 2012 at 3:39am

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Posted: 24 July 2012 at 3:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by corvette

Originally posted by trina_one

Originally posted by corvette

Thrustiing yourself upon someon is never going to necessarily endear you to that person or his family
 
If love and acceptance is what ASY wanted He could have gone about it another way
 
As for Shakuntala - I totally agree that her quiet dignity is appealing,
 
But at the same time, her son rode roughshod over her when he overreached her and demanded to stay in the Haveli - exactly why would she support her son for this?
 
Isnt it insulting in a way to al the sacrifices she no doubt made - as if to say having a loving mother is simply not enough? I have to discover the father that rejected me in order to feel whole?
 
I think it is...
 
ASY isnt the first and wont be the last - but as an educated man he should have held his head high, been proud of his mother and declared he doesnt need an absent father of the blood - his mother did a grand job of mother and father all of her own. No way does society require you to have to decalre whether or not you are illegitimate in order to get somewhere in life.
 
 
 
 
I agree that thrusting yourself on someone and his family isn't necessarily going to endear you to them.  But Abhimanyu knew the kind of people was dealing with from the beginning.   However, based on your first point, what about what Krishna did to Pratigya and the entire Saxena family?  He stalked her, kept her from leaving the city, getting engaged, and pretty much doing anything.  Do you think anyone was happy about that wedding?  Even Krishna's own parents objected to it because of caste.  And then, eventually Krishna did get his hard-won acceptance from the Saxenas and his own wife.  He won her heart, in fact as we all saw during the consummation scene on the rooftop.  It's not like Abhimanyu took a gun and forced SS to announce to everyone who he was.  He didn't file a case against him either.  How would Abhimanyu's tactics be any less forceful than his half-brother Krishna?  I would not expect Shakti to ever accept this man, because all he really cares about is money and wealth.  I don't know about the rest, as it's up to the cvs. 
 
 
As for Abhimanyu "going about it another way", that statement could apply equally to Krishna.  Krishna went out of his way to call up Pratigya's house and tell her he didn't like beauty parlor-styled hair, he stormed in the middle of her sangeet with his friends, he beat up her fiance and ruined her name by doing so, and thrust a gun on them in a city bus.  Would you expect Pratigya and her family to accept Krishna and run into his arms based on everything he had done?  She wouldn't so much as accept a chocolate bar from him, let alone a 22K gold necklace when they first got married.  He alienated her not unlike the way Abhimanyu alienated the Thakurs.  
 
 
I could half agree with your point about Abhimanyu standing up and saying a loving mother is enough.  However, if SS conceived him out of love, then shouldn't he stand up for that love?  After all, the man conceived three children with Amma and we have all seen how little respect he has given the woman in the past.  She seems little more than an incubator to me.  The way he has treated Shakuntala is different, it's actually affectionate relatively speaking.  He doesn't treat her like a low-caste woman, he treats her like a woman.  Period.  It's a person's inclination whether a mother is enough, or a father is enough.  Not every child is blessed with two parents in his or her life.  However, SS is still alive and kicking and one could argue that Abhimanyu has not only a right to know his real father but a right to his name.  I don't think he is trying to say his mother's love isn't enough, his mother seems to have the biggest heart I have ever seen.  I think he felt it was an insult to both of them to have to carry on the charade of having Sudama Yadav's name as that was a lie and the whole village knew it.  You think noone in a small village is going to notice SS visiting Shakuntala?  As ThatOneGal has stated in her post, it is a male-dominated society in much of the world, including rural India.  So in that respect, noone is forcing Abhimanyu to declare illegitimacy why should he be forced to declare his adopted father as his real one?  This man has gone through an identity crisis, one serious enough to make him seek out his real father and endure multiple beatings, a poisoning, and then being dumped from his hospital bed while unconscious.  In many major cities in India, the first question strangers will openly ask you is what your father does for a living.  Never mind what the mother does, it's always the father.  It may be an idealism to say that one's legitimacy is not an issue in getting somewhere in life.         
 
 
I think SS secretly respects Abhimanyu for having the guts to stand up to him, and the brains to make something of himself.  Whether or not he confirms this, we will all see.  The man was ready to give anything just to save the guy when he was badly injured, even so far as pleading with his favorite son to give it.  You don't do that unless you really care about someone. 
 
Your tenacity is worthy of respect but I'm afraid I'm gonna beg to differ - we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
 
I dont live in rural India to have to understand this apparent injustice to Abhimanu - nor have the CVs depicted anything such as you have described by reading between the lines and arriving at your conclusions - "born out of love" "the injustice of being illegitimate" the latter in particular just sounds like something from a previous century to me...
 
As for the comparisons with Krishna - (why the comparison required to justify I'm not sure )  even if you do - two wrongs dont make a right in my book.
 
For me, the scene from yesterday did not make up for ASY's behaviour, neither did it make sense to me. Having caused the hungama he now proposes to make a quiet exit - what????? Youve got to be joking!!
 
So if it gave ASY some form of peace of mind - good luck to him - but the peace of mind still seems weird to me and he doesnt seem to have a conscience in considering what his single act has done to a whole load of others.
 
Your topic started out talking about Shakuntala - and I agreed this point already to a degree with you already - am not converted to the rest but hey ho!
 
@ssbaqri - dont even get me started!!!!LOL 
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