Jhalak Dikhhla Ja 5


Jhalak Dikhhla Ja 5
Jhalak Dikhhla Ja 5

Superficiality and tricks in dance?[ DT NOTE P16] (Page 8)

TheRager IF-Addictz

Joined: 04 October 2004
Posts: 67987

Posted: 20 July 2012 at 4:03am | IP Logged
@Topic maker: You have nailed it. While everyone is awed by Isha-Salman I just dont see the point. Isha is more a gymnast than a dancer. Where is the dancing in their performance? When Isha's debut movie had released I remember one critic making the same comment about her 'brilliant' dancing. I see that over the years nothing has changed.

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ashlatore Groupbie

Joined: 03 January 2008
Posts: 95

Posted: 20 July 2012 at 5:04am | IP Logged
I really think a performance's goodness depends on the person who is looking at it. Unless you are doing a classical form (Indian like Bharatnatyam or Western like Ballet) where it is very important to be true to the style, it is ok to take liberties. If you have ever looked at So you think you can dance performances, a lot of Sonya Tayeh's choreography is around shapes and flow and if those who says Isha didn't do dance sees them then will say Sonya also doesn't choreograph dances but only gymnastic / circus acts. Whereas Sonya is regarded as one of the best and most innovative choreographers that is there now. So I think Salman, and all other choreographers, should be allowed to interpret dance forms.

For example, an aerial act is also a lot of gymnastics and acrobatics and no dance because you are not "dancing" when attached to bungee strings. But if it looks nice we call it dance.

I am not a die-hard Isha fan and neither do I think she is bad. I like some of her performances, just like I said each performance is differently perceived by different people. So I think this is a fight (about the horror performance) that will never end. So we should just let it be, agree to disagree and not make it so ugly.

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LeadNitrate IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 28 March 2007
Posts: 14663

Posted: 20 July 2012 at 5:46am | IP Logged
 DT Note:

Just a friendly reminder guys, shakti mohan is not a part of JDJ. While posting her performances to get to the point of what paso doble is and what you think the performance should be is just fine, comparing jdj contestants with her is not. She is  and was not a part of jdj so please keep that in mind.
While you are entitiled to your opinion, please remember, trying to shove it down through some one else's throat might cause discomfort for all of you.

Edited by tannipartner - 20 July 2012 at 6:11am

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nikitagmc IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 01 January 2009
Posts: 16304

Posted: 20 July 2012 at 10:55am | IP Logged
 I don't think anyone here intends to 'shove opinions down anyone's throat'. At least not me, and I saw Himani too agreeing to disagree in a very friendly manner in one post. I request everyone- whether or not they agree with my/our views, people from both sides actually, not to look at the debate as  an attempt to shove opinions down anyone's throat or take any arguments personally, it was simply a discussion, a difference of opinion and has been very civil till here. I personally liked reading all the different view points whether or not I agreed with them. This is the first time I actually got so involved in JDJ forum this season.
Peace from my end, and it was nice to discuss with all of you.

Edited by nikitagmc - 20 July 2012 at 10:55am

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zainab_sushita2 Goldie

Joined: 24 June 2011
Posts: 1092

Posted: 20 July 2012 at 11:19am | IP Logged
sushant shampa act ws jst awww...brilliant...can't be comparable
NoComments Senior Member

Joined: 04 November 2010
Posts: 984

Posted: 20 July 2012 at 12:24pm | IP Logged
To the Topic Maker and all contributors - Thank You for the very logical debating.. Enjoyed reading almost every single post - Something rare on this forum..
Now about the topic - I think we started with the comparison of the horror act between Sushant-Shampa and Salman-Isha, and then moved to Isha the dancer and her performances. I would like to add my $0.02 for both.
First, I have to admit that I did not follow JDJ4 and hence had not seen this performance. Thanks for sharing the link. Thoroughly enjoyed the dance. Yes, there was a good story and a lot of dance to it. Sushant being the contestant, Shampa needed to add dance there to give him some focus before the twist. But the BIG issue with the act was that there was no horror. Shampa never looked or performed like a ghost and Sushant never looked scared. I mean - I did not sit up at the end of the performace. Whereas, for the fist time - Isha made me do that.. The act was scary from beginning to end.. The beginning and end was superb especially and though it may not have had conventional dance forms like a Salsa or anything, it was coreographed brilliantly and agreed that coreographed to Isha's strengths. Also - Sushant and Shampa are not the first to invent the story of Boy kills girl and girl reappears as ghost and takes revenge - this has been done many times over and Isha Salman also redid it.. I would not say it was copy from Sushant and Shampa.. If it was a copy, it was a copy of a horror fable by both.. Coreography is all about dance, steps, expressions and everything - and at least on this act, Isha did it brilliantly!
And this brings me to the 2nd point that this was the only act of Isha which I liked. I agree to many other member posts from before that she may have a lot of technical perfection, but there is something about Isha and her performances that I have never been able to connect with her... I would agree that it is the lack of grace.. I would agree that it is the lack of expressions.. Isha and her acts have always appeared very cold to me.. The audience connection does not happen since I have never found soul in her dancing.. And that could be one good reason why she outperformed as a ghost.. If we have to talk about grace this season - It is / was Pratyusha, if it is spunk - it is Shibani, if it is expressions - it is Jayati.. Isha scores above them because she does dancing for a living and the others dont.. But, will I be able to connect to another act from Isha - i will have to wait and watch.. So far it has not been the case baring the Ghost act.

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pigbelly4myfeet IF-Rockerz

Joined: 02 January 2008
Posts: 5197

Posted: 22 July 2012 at 9:16pm | IP Logged
 Oh wow...this is so exciting! Thanks for all the replies everyone! :D Appreciate it. 

Heyyy I see familiar faces!! :D *waves out* :D 

Sorry for the delay in replying...

@quarky: LOL you are confusing me dude...first you post that amazing SYTYCD performance...and then actually hold this lame Salman-Isha act to that kind of a standard!??! What BLASPHEMY!!! Ok now I am doubting your taste...:P 

lol...just kidding...but really how can you even begin to compare the two. In simple and short terms...that Sonya routine has GENIUS in it...whereas this Salman-Isha duet...not even close. Thumbs Down

Anu/Himani: I can always count on you guys! Hug YAY...awesome points as always! Ahh...spoke my mind, thank youuu! Hug

Niki: Heyyy! Hug LOL I am toh very flattered indeed jee!  Blushing Thank you for stopping by! But are you sure you didn't just watch this performance more out of curiosity to see how it was copied from Sushant-Shampa's performance? :P lol 

Hey Tani! LOL of course we disagree...that is our usual. :P Are you still watching DID or did you move on to JDJ instead? Waisse to be frank, I didn't quite understand why the posts were edited out...the discussion seemed pretty civil to me. :S And I didn't see anything wrong with bringing DID/Shakti in for making-a-point-purposes but hey, that's just me. *shrugs*

Ok now coming to the topic...I'll try to address all the points made by everyone in one post so please bear with me:

Honestly, my main problem with ALL of Salman's choreography has been that he never frickin' LISTENS to his music!

For all the people appreciating this choreography...I'd like to ask...couldn't these SAME steps be repeated for ANY frickin' song? Do these steps really correlate with THIS particular song? Nope. Salman could use those exact tricks he made Isha do on any song. And in fact he does. I watched that "paso doble" act too...and that is not paso doble. It's not. Isha's expressions (or lack of) were just laughable there.  She just isn't THERE with her performance...she's just doing the moves mechanically...no soul to it whatsoever. So superficial and boring! And you can totally tell when the "expressions" are superficial like that. It's like she suddenly remembers OMG I have to look "fierce" here I better do that. It's so choppy and random and unconvincing. Thumbs Down I felt like laughing watching those "fierce" or whatever you'd name them expressions. Like does she even realize how ridiculous she looks?

Yana from last season was better than this girl even. And just ridiculous because she is supposedly trained in Kathak too. What a waste! There are FAR more talented people out there and she isn't one of them. As far as dance/art goes atleast. She is talented in gymnastics and acrobatics of course. I honestly can't understand HOW people can say that her level of dancing is so high. It's not. She's MAJORLY amateur. 

And her bad luck too that she got a super boring and superficial choreographer like Salman. Who has trouble listening to his music. What lacks in his choreography is the genius. The art. The MOMENTS. The details. The intricacy, the layers. His choreography is so surface level. No depth to it. 

For example, even with this performance...so the song was "pyaar tune kya kiya"...there is this haunting sort of sadness to this song. Now if Salman really was creative.he would be able to CAPTURE that haunting sadness. AND that would be goosebumps inducing. There is this melancholy emotion in this song. This hollow. Salman doesn't show any of that. Where is HIS own interpretation to the music? His OWN creativity? There's nothing there. 

I mean, the song "ronde hai" and "pyaar tune kya kiya" are pretty different. The interpretation SHOULD have been different. But no, he uses the SAME story. And that too in a worse, unconvincing, random manner. 

Tani...like you mentioned...there SHOULD be storytelling in dancing. SOME sort of emotion portrayed. Where was that in this performance? Salman and Isha were just doing there own random things. They're supposed to dance TOGETHER no? There was ZERO chemistry or connect between these two. Randomness all over the place.  Was Isha taking a revenge on Salman? I suppose this was a "failed love story" types since the song went like "PYAR tune kya kiya" but Salman and Isha never convinced me of this "pyar". There was no angst between there characters...no push or pull. They were just doing their own things randomly. 

Ok just look at the CONNECT between these two here! I don't care that Salman "highlighted" Isha or whatever. There should STILL be a connect in a duet performance. 

And here...just see how Shampa is "controlling" Sushant and he is REACTING to it. It's brilliance. It requires dancing with the MIND as well as the body. Which Isha isn't able to do. And all this WHILE doing salsa. It's genius. Clap

That "torturing" idea was there in that SYTYCD performance too. That's what gives you the goosebumps. The sheer EVIL of it. Salman didn't look "tortured" AT ALL! Confused

And what was so scary about this performance, please enlighten me! People are saying that Sushant-Shampa's wasn't SCARY enough? Give me a break! I don't think horror DANCE performances CAN ever be scary in THAT sense. A horror act should be goosebumps inducing...you should be INVOLVED in the story...the characters should be convincing...the evil, the torturing, should be convincing. The body language of the dancer should be convincing...the expressions etc...THAT is the power. Not LITERALLY being scared. :S I wasn't "scared" by this Salman-Isha performance either! :S 

But this Salman-Isha duet didn't give me any goosebumps either. It wasn't INVOLVING enough. The characters were RANDOM, half-baked, NOT thought out well..therefore they were not convincing. Not to mention the acting/expressions...the DANCING...the execution lacked MAJOR flow. 

This Salman-Isha duet was all about the EFFECT. The superficial, surface level effect. Which people can so easily buy. And that's their point to no? Convincing people that this is SUCH an awesome act by creating that effect...when actually there is NO substance. As Terence would say, this was "all style and no substance". That is the perfect expression to describe this act really. No depth. These supposed "characters" of Salman and Isha were hardly FEELING anything. No layers in their body language as their dancing or layers in their emotions...in their interaction with each other. The "STORY" while dancing has to have a graph. A low point, a high point, and a conclusion. WHERE was all that in this performance? It was ALL one level! 

Just creating that "effect" is not enough. There has to be a POINT to it. A flow to it. 

And Isha ISN'T graceful man. She isn't. If THIS is what people equate to "grace", then God help our dance culture. Grace means flowy movements.. Isha is so choppy. You can see the preparation too. The EFFORT it takes her to transition from one move to the next. HOW is that good dancing? That is mediocre, AMATEURISH dancing at best. 

THIS is grace people Clap

And THIS is genius in choreography:

And I could care two hoots about Remo's opinion. I've never agreed with him anyways. But I'm surprised at Madhuri. She's like the epitome of grace, and ART. How she's liking this..

**edited offensive parts

Edited by tannipartner - 24 July 2012 at 8:31am

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TheRowdiest IF-Stunnerz

Joined: 17 February 2006
Posts: 30020

Posted: 22 July 2012 at 9:32pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by pigbelly4myfeet

Yes, granted that both Isha and Salman are very flexible. Especially Isha. And the tricks they can perform are commendable no doubt...but that is NOT dancing! 

till now NOT a single Gurmeet performance had Dancing ...yet he is getting 30 back to back LOL 

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