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Superficiality and tricks in dance?[ DT NOTE P16] (Page 4)

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Posted: 19 July 2012 at 12:07pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by RadhaHiBawari

As a former Pavitra Rishta fan, I have got to say, I loved Sushant's performance. He is a terrific dancer and Shampa is a genius choreographer. But, in no discernible way, can you say that Salman's and Isha's performance was copied from that. As you pointed out, there were Salsa steps in the Shampa's choreography, and Salman's didn't have that. There was only one thing that I found similar, which was the fact that Isha walked backwards on all fours like Shampa did. But, IMO, Isha did that step better. If what you consider "plagiarizing" is the fact that both of them did a horror themed dance, then you should also know the fact that both jodis were assigned that theme. They'll have a jodi next season who does a horror dance as well, so will that be considered copying?

Now talking about dance'After I read this, I went on to youtube once again to watch their performance. Was it just me, or was Isha actually lip synching most of the time? And yes, Salman tried to show off Isha's flexibility, but isn't that what a choreographer is supposed to do? Showcase his dancer's strengths? Shampa did it with Sushant's jazz. And all the movements were well synchronized. All of her steps went with the beats of the music. But I think that since the main theme of the dance was horror, the performance should have scared the audience at least. I wasn't at all scared with Sushant's and Shampa's dance performance, not even at the end when she choked him. Salman's and Isha's performance was much more true to the theme.


Exactly my thoughts. Sushant and Shampa's performance was amazing, but I wasn't scared. Isha and Salman's actually scared me. And their dance form was contemporary - which is probably the most encompassing dance form I know. 

Also, its not like Shampa invented the back walk? Everyone that thinks horror, thinks of the backwalk in exorcist, even Vaishnavi did that in Dance Ke Superstars. Backwalks are common and the fact that Isha did it better and turned with it, that was fantastic.

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Posted: 19 July 2012 at 12:12pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ashlatore

Originally posted by AreYaar

Ahh they got the horror theme to do? Well Sushant-Shampa were given salsa to do and they wove a story about horror into it...I find that far more creative and worthy of praise than using Isha's contortion skills and amazingly BLANK plastic face to portray her as a zombie...doesn't require that much from her side...


By the way is this a DANCE show or a THEME show?  Is the point supposed to be about combining dance WITH theme or just putting up the props for a theme and getting lauded for that? If it's the latter, then in that case, my apologies...Salman-Isha totally lived up to the "level" of the show this yearClapLOL

FYI, the theme they were given was horror, not Salsa and they did Salsa in the theme. So it was similar to this year. Not the other way around as you seem to think.
 
Last year the contestants were given BOTH a dance form AND a theme. Like Daya was given Tango and suspense. Similarily Sushant Shampa were given Salsa and Horror.

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Posted: 19 July 2012 at 12:21pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by nikitagmc

Originally posted by RadhaHiBawari

As a former Pavitra Rishta fan, I have got to say, I loved Sushant's performance. He is a terrific dancer and Shampa is a genius choreographer. But, in no discernible way, can you say that Salman's and Isha's performance was copied from that. As you pointed out, there were Salsa steps in the Shampa's choreography, and Salman's didn't have that. There was only one thing that I found similar, which was the fact that Isha walked backwards on all fours like Shampa did. But, IMO, Isha did that step better. If what you consider "plagiarizing" is the fact that both of them did a horror themed dance, then you should also know the fact that both jodis were assigned that theme. They'll have a jodi next season who does a horror dance as well, so will that be considered copying?

 
It's not just about the theme yaar, its about the concept. What was Sushant-Shampa's concept-  girl is killed by her lover, and then the ghost of the girl comes back to take revenge. Salman and Isha's act had the same concept. Surely they could have chosen another story/concept, it's not like this is the only storyline/concept available to make a horror performance?  Even the song is from the same film- Raundhe hai and Pyaar tune kya kiya focussing on the girl crying for her lover. The camera effects are quite similar too. Isha's step of walking on all fours like Shampa is the same too. Even if one tries it is hard to ignore the uncanny resemblences, whether intentional or not. And if one says that this is a common concept and hence is no plagiarism, then again it goes on to show the lack of novelty in the act in choosing a concept already performed on the same stage before.
 
 



Excellent points, NikitaClap   But I can already see that attempting to logically reason anything out here is a lost cause ...LOL...So apparently a ZOMBIE act is the ONLY act that can be done on a horror theme and Pyar tune kya kiya is the ONLY movie to get songs from...Truly "creativity" at it's bestClapLOL

post edited.


Edited by tannipartner - 19 July 2012 at 1:39pm

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Posted: 19 July 2012 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by nikitagmc

Originally posted by RadhaHiBawari

As a former Pavitra Rishta fan, I have got to say, I loved Sushant's performance. He is a terrific dancer and Shampa is a genius choreographer. But, in no discernible way, can you say that Salman's and Isha's performance was copied from that. As you pointed out, there were Salsa steps in the Shampa's choreography, and Salman's didn't have that. There was only one thing that I found similar, which was the fact that Isha walked backwards on all fours like Shampa did. But, IMO, Isha did that step better. If what you consider "plagiarizing" is the fact that both of them did a horror themed dance, then you should also know the fact that both jodis were assigned that theme. They'll have a jodi next season who does a horror dance as well, so will that be considered copying?

 
It's not just about the theme yaar, its about the concept. What was Sushant-Shampa's concept-  girl is killed by her lover, and then the ghost of the girl comes back to take revenge. Salman and Isha's act had the same concept. Surely they could have chosen another story/concept, it's not like this is the only storyline/concept available to make a horror performance?  Even the song is from the same film- Raundhe hai and Pyaar tune kya kiya focussing on the girl crying for her lover. The camera effects are quite similar too. Isha's step of walking on all fours like Shampa is the same too. Even if one tries it is hard to ignore the uncanny resemblences, whether intentional or not. And if one says that this is a common concept and hence is no plagiarism, then again it goes on to show the lack of novelty in the act in choosing a concept already performed on the same stage before.
 
 


When you think horror, you think ghosts. And either Salman or Isha could have taken that role. But Salman chose Isha because of her flexibility. He himself couldn't have been able to pull of what she did. So the fact that the female in both acts is playing the ghosts is copying?

The songs are quite different, actually. They might be from the same movie, but "Pyaar Tune Kya Kiya" was originally just a romantic number with Urmila Matondkar singing in a bathtub. Salman took it in a whole different direction. And as per the camera effects, then that's all up to the camera man. They might have the same guy from last season, who knows?

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Posted: 19 July 2012 at 1:00pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by AreYaar

Originally posted by nikitagmc

Originally posted by RadhaHiBawari

As a former Pavitra Rishta fan, I have got to say, I loved Sushant's performance. He is a terrific dancer and Shampa is a genius choreographer. But, in no discernible way, can you say that Salman's and Isha's performance was copied from that. As you pointed out, there were Salsa steps in the Shampa's choreography, and Salman's didn't have that. There was only one thing that I found similar, which was the fact that Isha walked backwards on all fours like Shampa did. But, IMO, Isha did that step better. If what you consider "plagiarizing" is the fact that both of them did a horror themed dance, then you should also know the fact that both jodis were assigned that theme. They'll have a jodi next season who does a horror dance as well, so will that be considered copying?

 
It's not just about the theme yaar, its about the concept. What was Sushant-Shampa's concept-  girl is killed by her lover, and then the ghost of the girl comes back to take revenge. Salman and Isha's act had the same concept. Surely they could have chosen another story/concept, it's not like this is the only storyline/concept available to make a horror performance?  Even the song is from the same film- Raundhe hai and Pyaar tune kya kiya focussing on the girl crying for her lover. The camera effects are quite similar too. Isha's step of walking on all fours like Shampa is the same too. Even if one tries it is hard to ignore the uncanny resemblences, whether intentional or not. And if one says that this is a common concept and hence is no plagiarism, then again it goes on to show the lack of novelty in the act in choosing a concept already performed on the same stage before.
 
 



Excellent points, NikitaClap   But I can already see that attempting to logically reason anything out here is a lost cause ...So apparently a ZOMBIE act is the ONLY act that can be done on a horror theme and Pyar tune kya kiya is the ONLY movie to get songs from...Truly "creativity" at it's bestClapLOL


If there are logical reasons, please respond to them instead of labeling posts are fangiri.
Thank you.

*post edited


Edited by tannipartner - 19 July 2012 at 1:40pm

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Posted: 19 July 2012 at 1:40pm | IP Logged

Welcome to jdj forum pallo.Hug

Seems our streak of disagreement will continue from DID here.LOL

So basically i disagree with you.

Why:

Dance to me is a very physical art, i am not saying do out and out stunt  and pass it off as dance,but if you can express yourself through  postures and stunts then why not? I think it was soumitra chatterjee, who said a dancer should be able to move every single muscle of his or her body and i am glad isha can do it and she uses her whole body to express dance. I would have died to be someone who can use her whole body to express her emotions.

Secondly, there were lots of expressions and acting, in one where she throws salman away and then sits and cries , for a couple of seconds, the expression of being betrayed/ murdered got to me totally.

Dance choreography is not just about  doing dance steps, its about telling a story and costumes, makeup, lighting, props all are and can be used to tell the story effectively. I think the whole red light gave the dance a whole new level.

 I thought there were enough dance, yes it was a bit stunt yoga based, but there was enough dance in it. I felt the usage of stunts and isha's flexibility to depict the unnatural ness of the ghost ie isha was quite good.


last season's sushan't act was wonderful no doubt and shampa choreographed a master piece too. But  apart from the theme and the girl playing ghost i really did not think it was shamelessly copied. 
the story was different, setting was different.
once the ghots comes in, whatever acting dancing sushant did was almost in equal amount to salman.
In total i think salman's act is applaudable  and it may be inspired, but it is not copied from sushan't act. Both the acts were good in their own way.
I would choose sushan'ts act to see a ballad and a story, and i would chose this act to see sheer passionate hate and anger and definitely horror depicted by the ghost and the murderer.

 



Edited by tannipartner - 19 July 2012 at 1:49pm

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Posted: 19 July 2012 at 1:49pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by RadhaHiBawari

Originally posted by nikitagmc

Originally posted by RadhaHiBawari

As a former Pavitra Rishta fan, I have got to say, I loved Sushant's performance. He is a terrific dancer and Shampa is a genius choreographer. But, in no discernible way, can you say that Salman's and Isha's performance was copied from that. As you pointed out, there were Salsa steps in the Shampa's choreography, and Salman's didn't have that. There was only one thing that I found similar, which was the fact that Isha walked backwards on all fours like Shampa did. But, IMO, Isha did that step better. If what you consider "plagiarizing" is the fact that both of them did a horror themed dance, then you should also know the fact that both jodis were assigned that theme. They'll have a jodi next season who does a horror dance as well, so will that be considered copying?

 
It's not just about the theme yaar, its about the concept. What was Sushant-Shampa's concept-  girl is killed by her lover, and then the ghost of the girl comes back to take revenge. Salman and Isha's act had the same concept. Surely they could have chosen another story/concept, it's not like this is the only storyline/concept available to make a horror performance?  Even the song is from the same film- Raundhe hai and Pyaar tune kya kiya focussing on the girl crying for her lover. The camera effects are quite similar too. Isha's step of walking on all fours like Shampa is the same too. Even if one tries it is hard to ignore the uncanny resemblences, whether intentional or not. And if one says that this is a common concept and hence is no plagiarism, then again it goes on to show the lack of novelty in the act in choosing a concept already performed on the same stage before.
 
 


When you think horror, you think ghosts. And either Salman or Isha could have taken that role. But Salman chose Isha because of her flexibility. He himself couldn't have been able to pull of what she did. So the fact that the female in both acts is playing the ghosts is copying?

The songs are quite different, actually. They might be from the same movie, but "Pyaar Tune Kya Kiya" was originally just a romantic number with Urmila Matondkar singing in a bathtub. Salman took it in a whole different direction. And as per the camera effects, then that's all up to the camera man. They might have the same guy from last season, who knows?
 
I have already answered your point in blue in my original post above, but I'll try to put across my point in another way again.
 
 Granted that it was more convenient to make Isha the ghost cos of her flexibility. But then where does the novelty remain in the act if everyone starts applying the same idea cos of the 'convenience' inspite of knowing it has already been done before just a season back? What is new and praiseworthy in the concept then, which is actually the soul in such acts? Why is the act then worthy of so much applause if all the choreographer has done is to stick to the conventional route, despite knowing that an act of this sort has ALREADY been done on this stage?! Obviously some people will feel that the act is not worth of a 30!! If this was the first act of this sort (like Sushant Shampa's) then people  would not point fingers, but when you know an act of this sort has already been done then why chose the same concept/storyline knowing there will be comparisons? You can't blame people for drawing comparisons/calling it plagiarism if you chose to do something so blatantly similar for whatever reasons! The onus to make the act look different in every whichever way falls on the choreographer, with or without the help of the cameraman, lightsman or whoever is involved, but certainly not the audience! They will obviously compare if similar concepts are chosen.
 
And it was not just about the female playing the ghost which is leading to people calling it copying of the concept. It was also about the female BEING KILLED BY THE ONE SHE LOVED and then taking revenge- a love-revenge-horror story that Sushant had written and made into a short film named Ignored Decibels. If Salman was so keen to show Isha as a ghost, there could have been so many ways he could ahve done it without making it seem similar to Sushant-Shampa's act of the love-revenge-horror story. Show the girl being killed by a cruel thakur, in a different setting, , a burnt house, a deserted villlage, show a spirit in a haunted house, heck there are a hundred ideas! Vampires are the latest trend, show vampires! Think out of the box, that shall always garner more praise!
 


Edited by nikitagmc - 19 July 2012 at 1:53pm

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Posted: 19 July 2012 at 3:17pm | IP Logged
Pallo!! Hug How are you?
 
Anyways, I finally caught this performance yesterday because everyone praised it so much so I wanted to see it for myself. I stopped wathcing JDJ weeks back..got way too bored. Anyways, getting back to Salman-Isha's performance: honestly I was pretty disappointed and upset at the similarities between Salman-Isha's performance and Sushant-Shampa's from last season. Normally I would have liked to have given Salman the benefit of the doubt, but there are too many for me to completely ignore.
 
The concept is essentially the same: Guy betrays girl and she comes back to haunt him and eventually kills him. Though this story is far clearer in Sushant-Shampa's case. The song is from the same movie. Camera angles are pretty similar. That backward crawling step also (not saying Shampa has a copyright on that step, but still). Obviously Salman was inspired by Sushant-Shampa's horror act and I'm not surprised...there really was something about that act. But I wish it wasn't so obvious...or that he gave credit at least. I wasn't looking for similarities..heck I didn't even know it was supposed to be similar, but I was instantly reminded of Sushant-Shampa.
 
I disagree that horror = ghosts only. There are plenty of scary things in this world: zombies, vampires, werewolves, snakes, creepy crawly insects, etc.. And fine if Salman wanted to go the ghost way, that's awesome. BUT there are plenty of different stories with ghosts that he can come up with. It doesn't have to be love betrayal --> haunting --> death.
 
I really wish Madhuri had pointed out the similarities. Out of Remo and Madhuri, Madhuri is the only one I would expect to point it out. Khair..guess I'm expecting too much from her. I've only been disappointed from her from whatever little I've seen of this season. :(
 
Judging separately: I did really like when Isha comes out of the bag--that was brilliantly executed...and as much a gimmick the last step was, and one that didn't really make much sense, it was done very well by Isha.
 
Though after a while, it became a bit gimmicky and I really did think the performance lacked dance in terms of steps. But I had the same problem with Isha-Salman's last performance I saw as well..I don't remember which one anymore..it was one of the first 2-3. Lack of actual dance steps, more theatrics to get the point across rather than the dance itself. 
 
Which one people liked better comes down to personal opinion. I prefer Sushant-Shampa's not because it came first but because I thought it came together much better. The concept/story was very clear, there was tons of DANCE in terms of steps, choreography was better IMHO and it was executed well too. I connected more to it.  
 
Anyways from whatever little I've seen of this season...it may be an unpopular opinion, but I think Shibani-Punit are better than Isha-Salman.

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