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Aparna_BD

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Aparna_BD

Joined: 01 July 2005

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Posted: 19 June 2006 at 7:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Buffie

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

Buffie i think you are confused between two roles. One is a guardian - a keeper , protector for a child. And the other is a mentor- A person who teaches another one who needs learning.

The couple you described , it clearly sounds that her husband was her mentor. The woman sounds like an intelligent woman who needed a mentor not a father. She got a mentor in her husband. She may have been a "babe in the woods" but she certainly must not be dumb. So even when she married her husband she could still as an adult understand and make decisions. In such cases a partner will explain the pros and cons and will make suggestions. He will tell her that these are the advantages and these are the disadvantages . As my partner what do you suggest. As a guardian he will not be making a decision and imposing it on her.

 

 

So are you defending the parents who enforce their grown up kids??iBuffie i adult does not ...honey he/ she does not nead a guardian . Even if he/she is financially dependant. That will simply make him "financially dependamt"!!snt that too abuse of a sort..then how can we say that when parents enforce or beat their kids up,A parents beating up a grown kid is NEVER O.K ...yes its 100% abuse and in the U.S you can be jailed for it. its OKAY..ofcourse, notwithstanding the decisions parents make for their toddlers( a ka choice of the school, choice of clothes, choice of name etc)Although in case of a child, maybe under tean he/she may nead physical enforcement. I may need to force my child and make him sit down quietly on a plane, thats not abuse anywhere!!.…….and about the guardian, the counter example is cited in the next parragraphSmile…..Agreed, a woman with subnormal intelligence can be mentored, but a woman who has zilch knowledge in certain realms such as investment etc cannot be mentored....she can be gradually taught things, but there is no point in discussing things with her about which she knows nothing......She can be taught those things, and then be consulted...But initially, she cant! Buffie i imagine an average couple has two people of minimum average intelligence. They aren't of below Average intellignce. Now there is a diffrence between intelligence and knowledge. I hope you understand what i mean. I am intelligent enough but i have no knowledge about several things like financial matters. If my advisor/ mentor/ husband explains to me patiently. I may not understand every thing but i will try and use my brains and follow this stuff. Its like my mom,a simple lady, not very wordly wise and smart,  to her a computer was nothing but this weird tiny T.V that did something. In about 2 weeks i taught her to log into India- forums and view Videos while in the U.S. If you meet my mom she is such a simple lady that one can't believe that she will be able to understand computers. But being simple did not mean that she lacked grey matter. She was sufficently intelligent enough to pick up internet usage when taught very simply.

My point being , that unless a person is IQ challeneged, he/ she as an adult has sufficient capablity to be a partner in her husbands decision if her partner helps explain to her the issue in a simple term.

 

 

You are talking about a couple who know atleast "something" about the concerned matter…What if a Wharton graduate marries an illiterate village girl who has never been to school in her life(a very very far fetched example)Yes Buffie this too far fetched!!..Do you think he would be explaing finance to her???Would she understand even one bit of anything like " how to invest to get the best tax consessions…….."..In such cases, when the wife is a complete ignoramus when finance or investment is concerned, would the husband be discussing those matters with her….wouldn't he decide without discussing something which will sound Greek to her…in that case, doesn't he become her guardian?????I think you mean to say the woman has no capablity of understanding financial matters. So lets say in this case in matters like "shall we buy a house " or "shall we rent" . A spouse should be including his wife in these decision makings. Even if she is a villager and he is a Wharton School grad like you put it.Smile because he's her equal , her partner. Will this villager wife ask her husband shall i use mustard oil or Coconut oil for our baby's massage. Maybe not. But will she ask when do i stop nursing this baby. Most likely yes.

My point being like the Wharton grad will not make his Villager wife get into intricacies of finance. The wife who is clever with raising babies will not do the same. BUT they will consult each other on major decisions!! Thats why they are equals even the Wharton guy and his Villager wife .....no matter how weird the relationship sounds.LOL

 

 

Originally posted by Buffie




 

I might not be maried, but I'm not a nincompoopLOLLOL

I know you aren't a nincompoop , but after you experience a marriage you can understand what a breaking of marriage could feel like better.  Till then you know it "theoratically " ONLY!!

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

There are no times when wife deserves a slap. If she is cheating on her husband then the marriage got over the day she crossed her limits.

 

But the husband is not a robot…say the husband loved the wife like mad, he did everything to please her and keep her happy….he has never before raised his voice, let alone hand….but one fine day, he realizes that she has  been cheating on him for the past 7 years…. ….He cant calmly take the rough as he does with the smooth….the unfaithful wife whom he loved and trusted so much does deserve a slap ..more about this has been said in the following paragraphs...

O.K just to meet you half way i imagine this man is having a break down. Right ???? If he has lost all senses. Then even the court of law will probably be more leniant saying was a crime of passion if he kills her. Not every spouse has a mental break down when they discover an affair. There may be different degrees of emotions. But unless this man has had a serious break down......then it could be looked at differently.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 If she never adjusted with the husbands family and is abusive at all times. And a talk with her and even counselling hasn't helped. Then Buffie its time to seperate. This "slap" will not make her change her behavior.

 

It wouldn't..i never said that just one slap would metamorphose the bitchiest of the bitchiest into a seraph…..but a not so good, not so bad wife, may change when sense is drilled into her head…Perhaps she would be enraged at the moment, but later when she ponders in solitude about whether she was right or wrong, it may dawn upon her.Buffie it doesn't work like that. An angry wife will not be pondering her husbands slap and then learning from it. Take it from a wife who has had her normal share of fights with her husband. ….There are women who dont let the husbands have a word in between when they talk....…..now if he very cooly corrects her saying"hey look honey..i know you have problems, but please sort it out"…would it really have an impact on the stubborn wife…..Ofcourse, her basic nature wouldn't change if she is spanked, but atleast she would think twice before denigrating her in laws in futureBuffie wrong again, If he tries to speak to her it may help( considering she isn't that Hindi serial Vamp) That slap will not get him anywhere.........he may be fast headed for divorce this way. But if he tries the "talk and counselling". He can save it . But if thats still not working. Nothing will!

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

I have several good friends who are already divorced in their early 30's. So i know from speaking to them that divorce wasn't an easy solution. But when circumstances lead up to it. Then sadly thats whats got to be done. No amount of spanking the wife will change her behaviour for the better.

 

Divorce is the outcome when the marriage has reached an impasse situation…even if the couple have the slightest nkling that their marriage can be worked out if they make a few compromises, then I say make them…… I am not saying a an unfaithful husband needs to be forgiven....and at the end of the day, it differs from individual to individual...some wives may forgive, some may not....so that's subjective

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

I want to ask you have you ever heard of a man who slapped his wife and was really able to put sense in her head ?? I haven't heard of it and i am older than you. Even in Hindi soaps when the hero slaps his bi*chy wife . He is unable to knock sense in her head.So what makes you think this will work in reality?

 

But do we always think a thousand times before we say or do anythingTongueTo most people words pour out first, even a stupid action. And a "slap" is a bad action. So it could happen. But its not justified.(actually we must beTongueLOL, but then we are human beings, and not always can we carry ourselves to perfection)…..another example(and I promise you this is my last exampleTongueLOLEmbarrassed) ….a wife who has been nagging her hubby to shove his parents into an oldage home…She has been egging him on for months..he has tried explaining to her,he has done everything possible under the sun…..Yet again one fine day she  brings up the same topic again, and this day she crosses all her limits……and he cant take it anymore….he spanks her……No, his spank wouldn't change her attitude, it wouldn't make her love her inlaws whom she has only hated till then….but then, how could we expect him to keep his cool 24-7…there are limits of tolerance,and when a woman crosses all knows limits of decensy, it wouldn't be wrong if she slapped….Yes its still wrong. If this man can't convince his wife . And this man knows his priorities. Then he will have to choose between two relationships. This "slap" of your will not solve any issue.

Another thing is, not  every action would garner the desired consequence……and just because an acion does not have a consequence, it wouldn't become an "abuse" ……Just because nothing is going to be achieved by slapping a woman who faked to be a wonderful wife(but in reality was a  tramp), the entire act of slapping her for her infidelity wouldn't become an "abuse" or a "waste"....in that way, there are so many things that a re nothing but wastes...girls drool over john abraham..now no one is going to get him....what do girls achieve by drooling???..NOTHING!!!....so logically speaking, the drooling over is a waste....…when it comes to venting the emotions, the brain takes the backseat...all logic fails You are comparing John Ab harmless drooling with  physical abuse!!??!!LOL

Originally posted by Aparna_BD



Buffie what makes you think the cheating husband won't block his wifes slap and probably throw her around. What makes you believe that lecture and a slap will make him break up his extra marital relationship ?

No, I never said anything about the consequence of the slap or what really is going to be achieved…Its an instantaneous reaction, when the person who slaps is wallowing in hurt/dejection/anger/bitterness/loss of faith etc etc…and the person concerned really cannot think logically then…..tell me, do WE always follow our head???…don't we follow our heart too…..and when the faith and the love the husband harboured for the wife for years is shattered, the brain takes the backseat and he really wouldn't be able to use logic and wonder as to what is to be done next…cant a human being be entitled to even feel sad, to feel deceived???? Its like 2 wrongs do not make a right!! Same way just because the wife was wrong , the man lost his cool and slapped her. It should be O.K!!  If he lost his cool and hit her , it may happen ......but its not right!!

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 Now you are completely thinking of what is an "ideal" reaction from the cheating husband. Life doesn't work that way.

That's what I'm sayingLOL….The ideal reaction would be to just walk out on the cheating husband/wife, and file a court case…the realistic reaction would be a slap, or a dose of wailing, ranting whatever one fanciesLOL

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

If the man has had the guts to cheat around and he will believe he may be able to get away from this bullsh*t then what makes you believe he will take his wife's slap and lecture lightly and not fly into rage of his own. Maybe he'll blame her for not be an adequate woman. Maybe he will tell her to take what ever action she wants , well aware that his wife may not be able to break a marriage and take away his children.

 

Couldn't have disagreed with you anymore…….for starters , I'm wasn't talking about a man who abuses his wife even when he's wrong..such a man would be an abuser in daily life too, a chauvinistic pig who would be exercising his chauvinism in daily life matters too…..and when there's no real shock or jolt,I don't think a wife would get hysterical(unless she wants to create a melodramatic effect)….she would feel sad, but her shock would be definitely less than the shock a woman experiences, whose husband who was  supposed to be an " altruist and puritan"  cheats on her …and such a husband, who is otherwise a quite OKAY fellow, but whose only weakness is the opposite sex, wouldn't really hit his wife whe she accuses him of infidelity…….There are some men who are chauvinistic, promiscuous,egoistic,an alcoholic….and even if the battered wife of such a swine uncovers his infidelity, she wouldn't really be "SHOCKED" as she already knows what sort of a man he is as he hasn't put up any kind of a faade ….the women I'm talking about are those who were deceived into believing that their husbands are Sri Ram's, and those who have really held their husbands in high regard…when such a man's true colours comes out, it is extremely painful for the wife…and he himself would feel guilty, and wouldn't really reciprocate her slap….i'm not talking about the ruffians, I am talking about a man who has certain weaknesses, certain frailities but who has concealed his other side from his wife…he necessarily need not be a chauvinist,he might not be an abuser, but he might be unfaithful….and when such a man is rightfully slapped, he wouldn't slap his wife back You know you are assuming these reactions  and don't have any real experience of it. Well nor do i !! But  i think it will be better not to assume how the betrayed wife feels , the shamed husband behaves. We both are certainly speculating these reactions.

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

When a man finds his wife cheating. Yes he will go through a range of emotions. But a man who has never in his life lifetd his hand will still be unable to do so.

If the hurt and the deceit hits him with full force, why cant he ????circumstances bring out the best and the worst in a human being……I might have never even raised my voice in my life, but if my chastity is in danger, I might even kill my assaulter……Chastity or life in danger are likely to bring out different reaction from a person feeling betrayed.

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 He may hate her , he may beg her to stay , he may say he doesn't want to see her face. But what i want you to know Buffie words are powerfull enough for all those emotions to be expressed.

But at that point of time, when the truth about the husband/wife starkly stares at the spouse  for the first time, would he/she really be in a state of mind to even say anything…..do you think the husband/wife would be in a state of mind to give a lecture???/definitely not!! I can guess most likely the reactions are wailing, crying and shouting , throwing things. Its not neccesarily  always "hitting" !! Nor am i saying it doesn't happen. But it doesn't make it correct. It will solve Nothing !!




Edited by Aparna_BD - 19 June 2006 at 8:08pm

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Aparna_BD

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Aparna_BD

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Posts: 4926

Posted: 19 June 2006 at 8:27pm | IP Logged
Buffie now i am tired with this subject. I have repeated myself.LOL If i haven't been able to explain the husband - wife equation is not of a guardian but an equal in all situations. I give up!!!!!!!!!!

 I can only say when you experience it you will figure it out. SmileMarriage- divorce- husband wife situations can not be understood through theory or T.V Shows no matter what grade you get in studies. You could be very intelligent...but thats not enough. Only experience can truly make you understand. Hope i didn't hurt you. Embarrassed


Edited by Aparna_BD - 19 June 2006 at 8:35pm

insouciance

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insouciance

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Posts: 6876

Posted: 20 June 2006 at 1:30am | IP Logged

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

Buffie now i am tired with this subject. I have repeated myself.LOL If i haven't been able to explain the husband - wife equation is not of a guardian but an equal in all situations. I give up!!!!!!!!!!

 I can only say when you experience it you will figure it out. SmileMarriage- divorce- husband wife situations can not be understood through theory or T.V Shows no matter what grade you get in studies. You could be very intelligent...but thats not enough. Only experience can truly make you understand. Hope i didn't hurt you. Embarrassed

awwwww no, you didnt hurt me..and I hope i didnt hurt you.......and honestly speaking, even I'm tiredLOL.....Perhaps I'll learn more as i grow up, perhaps my opinions would change.....Smile

syrene

Goldie

syrene

Joined: 08 October 2005

Posts: 1653

Posted: 20 June 2006 at 5:56am | IP Logged
Really good and passionate arguments .... As a married woman I will say this - if my husband ever ever ever dares to even raise his hand against me ...then its "Hit the road Jack" time for him.

1. I strongly believe that marriage is a union of equals. You wouldnt even be friends with yout best friend if he or she slapped you..so why should you take physical abuse from your spouse? Confused

Also
2. Most women are physically weaker than most men. Its just not plain fair to pit a man's physical strength agaisnt a woman.

3. Anyway women go through far more physical discomfort and pain just as the price of being a woman...so men should respect that...If men were to give birth we would all be only children and that to C-section ones.

4. Respect among partners has to be mutual. If a wife is expected to respect her husband a husband should also respect his wife and then why would he raise his hand agaisnt someone he repsects?

5. There is no issue that cannot be sorted out by discussion....so why use physical force at all?

6. Marital rape is very heinous and just like in other cases of rape it cannot be justified by "she asked for it". No woman ever "asks" to be raped.

Morgoth

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Morgoth

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Joined: 01 June 2004

Posts: 6832

Posted: 20 June 2006 at 7:14am | IP Logged
I dont even need to say anything. Aparna, Zara and Minnie saved me from all the typing. LOL


Edited by T. - 20 June 2006 at 7:15am

MNMS

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MNMS

Joined: 15 December 2005

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Posted: 21 June 2006 at 5:50am | IP Logged
WHOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....WHT A DEBATE!!!!!Clap...I went away from the forum and THIS happened... Bravo... very good points .. very good!!!

Hehe...LOLLOL .. I completely agree with TanazLOL.. u people took my words... aah well at this point i do need mind-readers to type wht i wish to type and save my time and typingLOLLOL...OK... i have to go... u people enjoy debating...Wink... Happy debating!!Big smile

insouciance

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insouciance

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Posted: 05 February 2007 at 11:48am | IP Logged

Originally posted by MNMS

OK... i have to go... u people enjoy debating...Wink... Happy debating!!Big smile

LOL..Easy isnt it,Not getting your teeth into a debateTongue....But truly,one of the most memorable debates I participated in!!



Edited by Buffie - 05 February 2007 at 11:48am

mermaid_QT

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Posted: 05 February 2007 at 11:57am | IP Logged
A very well -written opening post MKZARA ClapClapClap

After reading the views,  agree with Aparna, Minnie and others.  Being married gives a completely different and correct perspective of "marriage and its rules"

I do think that somewhere on 2nd page Buffie's remark Guardian / husband was misconstrued.   In the post, she spoke of father and husband and I think she pointed at father being guardian, while husband being husband. 

Husbands are not guardiand and husbands have no right to teach anything that requires physical force Big smile  .  In fact, even mothers and fathers should use it LIMITED, keep it to an occasional spanking, and definitely stop it once the kid attains maturity to resolves matters verbally. 

Moving on to Kekta show.  I have seen Pushkar's character and Pia's character (lack of it).  For drama purpose, it was a well-situated SLAP.  Pia for no reason aborts his child, without his consent and this is when he reacts to the situation by slapping.  He has always been shown to be a loving husband and I would love to slap Pia for  him Wink 

YET, looking at the situation seriously, SLAPPING / ABUSE cannot be justified.  Dump the wife, pull her in court of law and torture her brain for her WRONG DOING for a justified revenge, but NO HURTING please!  Nobody should hit their spouse period.  Even when at times, they deserve to get beaten up.. LOL

It is very common in some parts of India and I was shocked to know that I know some women who think it is okay for thier husband to slap them Dead..  They do get slapped occasionally.  I am unfortunately not joking.  You will also see these abusive people actively performing Poojas and Hawans,  in case you wondered Confused

The reason why abuse is common is because women think it is okay and their relatives also allow it to happen - Sad and ugly face of some parts of the world.   Abuse if very common in the US as well, and it amazes me how WOMEN begin to believe that this is what they deserve.  To make the woman stand up against abuse is harder than harnessing her good-for- nothing spouse.

As for Kekta, she is really abusing everyone by showing these serials.  Then again, it is the audience that believe this is what they deserve..

It may be a little hard to control oneself, but one can just get out of the house, get off of the face, without raising a hand.  It cannot be impossibly hard!




Edited by mermaid_QT - 05 February 2007 at 2:00pm

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