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Women on physical abuse (Page 3)

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Aparna_BD

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Aparna_BD

Joined: 01 July 2005

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Posted: 19 June 2006 at 7:38am | IP Logged
O.K two things here Buffie .

Firstly - Let me correct you all over again . A husband is NEVER a wife's guardian!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Period !! She could come to the U.S and not speak English, drive, or work. That makes her dependant on him . That makes her depenadant on her PARTNER !! When we use the term partner , it means equal footing with the other. When we say "guardian" it does push you back to being not just dependant but under the shadow of some one. A guardian is some one from whom you must take permissions about most things. While a partner is some one with whom you mutually come to an agreement with. A guardian will say "This is where we will live now". A partner will ask " whats your opinion of this city and this house ? Do you think we should live here ?"

 As a partner , in our marriage our men swear to look after us. While we women make other promises that we'll take care of them. The promises our mutual from both sides. Thats the institution of marriage for you.

Secondly- How .....tell me how will slapping a woman who is abusing the husbands parents make her see her wrong ways??????????????????????? Confused

She will feel physically subjugated and may quiet down then. But will that changer her opinion ????? Will it alter her behaviour ?????????? I think "Not"!! The only way 2 adults (not matter how immature one of them is) solve problems and issues is through conversation. If words don't help, you may use counselling in these situations.If counselling doesn't also help..........man then you should be headed for a divorce. Ouch

But use of a slap will neither solve a husband-wife problem nor will make the marriage stronger.

Take this from a married woman. Wink

Also i want to ask you if i man is told he can lift his hand if the woman misbehaves, then where do we draw the line about what is actually misbehaviour and whats not. In a husband - wife relationship will society be standing judgement about what is happening privately ??? No they won't even come to know that easily. Man can take advantage of such a acceptance provided by society and be encouraged to use physical force even when its not required.

Lastly why isn't the rule same for woman. You may say yes a woman should also hit the man if he goes out of line . But really can a woman who is a weaker built and atleast  30- 40 (more or less)pounds lighter than her . Can she take advantage of the same rule ?????? No since she can't. That weapon needs to be taken away from all . No justification and acceptance should be given to use of "slaps" in a marriage.


Edited by Aparna_BD - 19 June 2006 at 8:28am

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insouciance

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insouciance

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Posted: 19 June 2006 at 10:29am | IP Logged
yuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk...i type this reply, and when i post it, IF logs me out and thus whatever i typed is lost CryDead ..and i am too tired today to type everything again...atleast not today

mkzara

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mkzara

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Posted: 19 June 2006 at 11:32am | IP Logged

sorry buffie i cudn't quote u cause my comp's dumb and wont let me quote such a large message so i am just gonna copy and paste and reply Smile

no,NOT the man..the society...each human must abide by certain rules of the society....and If a woman or a man conducts himself/herself in a manner that is just so very heinous, he/she ought be corrected by the spouse....We must realize that there are times when women act in the most repugnant and reprehensible manner..... for a hypothetical example, suppose a wife was extremely spoilt in her childhood..her parents were running behind money and in the process forgot to inculcate any good values within her...she's diabolically WICKED and never misses an oppurtunity to malign her MIL(who is a benign old woman)....and she badgers her husband to shove his parents into an oldage home......he has put up with the crap for say years....and her "guardians" dont care a damn and make no effort to drill sense into her head.....one day , things go really overboard, she has crossed all limits of tolerance, she has insulted his parents using the the most detestable words...and should the husband brook all the tongue lashing targetted at his parents??..doesnt she deserve a slap??????..actually NO, because such women are not worthy of the slap(if the husband happenes to be an altruist otherwise)...There are women who fake pregnancies on television....just to cheat their husbands....Dont they deserve a slap??...and another thing is we are talking about a television serial here...and 95% of what is shown on television is quite preposterous......Dont the vamps who plot and leave no stone unturned to ruin the family deserve a slap????Stereotyping wouldnt do...Saying that men have to tolerate whatever his wife does only because she is a "WOMAN" sounds so asinine....In that way, we too end up being chauvinists....When a woman kills a man for self defense, she is exculpated,But the society would never believe it if a man ever accuses a woman for sexual harrassment(It does happen)........ 85% of the women suffer due to the male chauvinistic attitude, the remaining 15% too ride on a wave of sympathy and are protected EVEN if they are at fault only as the majority suffer
First of all society isnt always right and when they rnt right we shoud try to change them rather than saying "oh well this is what society believes and we have to live with it". Society isn't fair to women and men and that is the first rule of it so if we r gonna do that we might as well go back in the homes and leave our careers and our lives and become baby making machines who should be walked over. okay if someone's wife is a b*tch who has no values then they shud leave her rather than saying "here b*tch let me slap u around and show u how the right way to live is" and second if a man kicked out his parents because of his wife then he is much more at fault than she is because she owes his parents no loyalty, they didn't give birth to her but to him so if he leaves the people who gave birth to him and raised him for some woman then he is at fault rather than her. she could be a horrible person but she is not responsible for his parents, he is responsible for them. If his wife treats his parents badly he shud talk to her and if nothing comes out of it say "sayonar loser" but he has no right to hit her. Hitting her will not make her nicer or make her love his parents. As Aparna said it will only subjugate her and she wont change her mind or anything. why do we always blame the woman in the matter of Mother in law it is the son's responsibility to handle them both fairly and if he is a loser who cant then he has no right to take it out on his wife.
No, honour killing connotes barbarism and beastliness...and that, is not pardonable......your question"When does she deserve this beating"......she deserves it when she has not been brought up properly and thus has no respect for the elders, or for values, or for ethics and continually insults and maligns the elders which would go on to have a very pernicious effect on her kids.....She deserves a censuring(or if needed a slap) if she's on drugs and refuses to co-operate with her rehabilitation....
Okay if she hasn't been brought up properly hitting her wont make her good or proper. It'll make her mad or just make her someone who loses soul and does everything without thinking. Hitting definitely does not stop u from doing something, it just makes u look for ways to do that thing without getting hit. I am so sorry that u feel that beating the tar out of someone will teach them values and morals.
Yes...If the daughter is allready married, and if she is sleeping with her neighbour, she deserves a slap from her father(and husband)....You may call it her choice, but if she really has not even an ounce of interest left in her marriage, she can as well call it quits...But cheating on the husband, by sleeping with another guy in his abscence and then putting on the garb of a "perfect wife" when he's around is NOT pardonable....such an act by her is nothing short of an anathema to the family...yet, I do strongly believe that honour killing is WRONG, but a slap at the spur of the moment is not wrong!!....and even otherwise, if the daughter isnt married, and yet has a platonic affair with her neighbour, who happens to be a hooligan or a rapist or a molester, and if the father slaps her, I wouldnt call that "WRONG"
See right there u said that if the daughter has no interest in her marriage then she shud end it, why not the same for the man if ur wife is a Wh*re or a b*tch leave her rather than knocking her around. a slap is a slap is a slap and no it isnt okay at the spur of the moment. I dont know how many ways i can say this husband and father different. Her father is her guardian he has to imbibe values in her but her husband is a partner who has to accept the values she has or leave her if he cant.
But a characterless woman who has cheated her husband and has slept with his friend behind his back deserves a slap........
No that characterless woman deserves divorce not a beatdown to show her how wrong she was and that she shudn't have cheated on the husband who will beat her.
but there are certain other contexts DO!
no context under any circumstances shud ur husband ur partner have the right to beat u. he is not ur superior so he cant beat u.

Point is, the women activists are basically there to help out the down trodden woman....but there are cases when its the man who is opressed... we should not tar every man with the same brush, and the same applies to women too......there are women who are almost abject in their respect for their wonderful in-laws...There are women who tyrannize men.......

Nobody is saying that men rn't oppressed and that we shud automatically say a man is wrong but if he hits his wife there is no way around that and he is wrong. If a woman is bad leave her (i dont think i have ever advocated divorce this much before) but dont beat her. If she treats ur parents bad learn to stand up for them rather than physically assaulting ur wife.

and if it the woman in question who is at fault, then i wouldnt defend the owoman only because she is a "WOMAN"

we are no defending women because they are women we are defending them because they are teh victims of a society which says ur husbands are superior and have a right to beat u if they think u have crossed ur limits which we made to be unfair by the way. so sux to be u.

But do you think human beings think so much at the spur of the moment...suppose a man finds his wife in a compromising position with his friend, do you think he would be tranquil, and would serenly say"hey get dressed..lets talk about it when we reach home"....It would be an understatement to say that he would be shocked out of his wits....He would be wallowing in hurt, deceit,the shattering of his mammoth trust..Is it possible for the husband to stomach this fornication...I mean, how could he be pacific and collected........and mind you, even the wife would feel extremely guilty...and I really dont think the man would become an abuser or a chauvinist if he slaps her while uncovering her infidelity
NO SLAPS. PERIOD. he can be mad and break things and throw things at the wall but he has no right to hit her. He should get a divorce, take the kids and make sure she gets none of their money or house or any alimony but NO SLAPS.
.....suppose the couple move to a foreign country where only the husband and the wife are residing.....the wife is YET too toooooooo green....isnt it the responsibility of the husband to guard her against all evils????isnt it his responsibility to protect her.......If a woman kills the ruffian, in order to save her chastity, she is exonerated of her sin....Analogously, if a man slaps(just a slap and NOT a brutal onslaught) a woman, inorder to protect her from the impending evil, I wouldnt call that "abuse"
and yes there are men who are sexually harassed it is on the news all the time and they do win cases when they sue. okay if someone's wife was kidnapped then she is his partner and u do things to save ur partner from peril, dealing with kidnapper is one of them. If a woman is going to go out and drive when she is pregnant and the doctor has said no driving for u the husband has the right to try to stop her by stalling or talking but not by hitting her. hitting says u have to obey me and listen to me because i know more than u. While the man's motives r right his way is wrong, i dont think anyone said a husband cant tell his wife that she's wrong but he can't physically or forcefully correct her.
ReallySo what about the husband who has moved into a foreign country with his wife(who does NOT know the language, or isnt smart enough to differentiate between right and wrong)...Isnt he her guardian...Now tomorrow, if she's kidnapped, would it be acceptable if the man says "Hey look, I'm NOT her guardian....her DAD is her guardian..so let him fly down here and save her...".....Isnt she his responsibility?......If yes, then he can correct her
He cant correct her he can teach her what she wants to learn and he can tell her that she's wrong but he cant correct her.



Edited by mkzara - 19 June 2006 at 11:38am

mkzara

Goldie

mkzara

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Posted: 19 June 2006 at 11:41am | IP Logged
Aparna said the rest about the difference in parents and husbands very well. as well as the institution of marriage very well. and i trust her cause she is married. LOL

insouciance

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insouciance

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Posted: 19 June 2006 at 2:07pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

O.K two things here Buffie .

Firstly - Let me correct you all over again . A husband is NEVER a wife's guardian!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Period !! She could come to the U.S and not speak English, drive, or work. That makes her dependant on him . That makes her depenadant on her PARTNER !! When we use the term partner , it means equal footing with the other. When we say "guardian" it does push you back to being not just dependant but under the shadow of some one.

Cant a wife ever  be under the shadow of her husband???……citing the real life example of one of my mother's acquaintances….. here is the real life story of this lady whose father was  The superintendent of a factory which was located in a rural area ….the girl was born and raised in a rural area….She was married off at the young age of 18 to an army officer(and he agreed to the proposal as he was smitten by her looks….he was around 29-30)….She moved into Delhi, and the girl DIDN'T KNOW A THING about a metropolitan city like Delhi……She was extremely nave,didn't even know the basic table manners of the etiquettes or the army protocols….She didn't know how to conduct herself or how to interact with people ..She had just passed her school and immediately she was married off…….The husband took her under his wings..he assumed the role of a guardian, and taught her everything from how to eat food  using a spoon  without spilling it to how to pronounce certain words(her diction I believe was pathetic)….Initially it was the husband who took all the major decisions, mainly because the wife wasn't mature enough to decide on certain issues…….he egged on her to pursue her studies, she did her MA, and started working in a school..She was later promoted to the office of the Principal..She went to the US to specialize in a specific field, and today she runs her own school and makes whopping money….The husband has retired,and NOW, he doesn't intefere even a bit in her work as he feels that wife is competent enough…It would be hard to believe that this woman who once couldn't even spell the word "believe" is not the author of around 6 books…She owes all her success to her husband…..her husband was her friend, philosopher and guide..He was her guardian angel when she was gullible and nave..he kept a tight rein on her when she wasn't mature enough to take her own decisions….Husbands can be much more than mere partners…..husbands can mould wives into successful entreprenures/successful teacher/lawyer etc etc

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 A guardian is some one from whom you must take permissions about most things. While a partner is some one with whom you mutually come to an agreement with. A guardian will say "This is where we will live now". A partner will ask " whats your opinion of this city and this house ? Do you think we should live here ?"

Well, lets consider the case of the nave girl who has just moved into an alien city….shouldn't it be the responsibility of the husband  to "tell" her which areas to avoid in the broad daylight ….is it wrong if he tells her "you will NEVER mosey into that street because its inundated with hooligans"…in such cases, doesn't he become her guardian……

Originally posted by Aparna_BD


 As a partner , in our marriage our men swear to look after us. While we women make other promises that we'll take care of them. The promises our mutual from both sides. Thats the institution of marriage for you.

and isnt telling the wife as to what is appropriate and what isnt(incase she doesn't know)  "looking after the wife"…"looking  after" means taking care…and don't people ever take precautionary measures while "taking care"..afterall what's the need for a guardian…A guardian is there to protect the kid, as the kid cannot differentiate between right and wrong…I'm not saying that EVERY HUSBAND MUST ASSUME THE ROLE OF A GUARDIAN…I'm only saying that if needed, a husband can be a guardian………A husband as such can play many roles…the role of a friend, a guardian, a lover, a guide etc etc……

Originally posted by Aparna_BD



Secondly- How .....tell me how will slapping a woman who is abusing the husbands parents make her see her wrong ways???????????????????????

She will feel physically subjugated and may quiet down then. But will that changer her opinion ????? Will it alter her behaviour ?????????? I think "Not"!! The only way 2 adults (not matter how immature one of them is) solve problems and issues is through conversation. If words don't help, you may use counselling in these situations.If counselling doesn't also help..........man then you should be headed for a divorce.

Divorce is easier said than done…….There are times when the wife deserves a slap but not a divorce……There are mnay things which can be set right if a man choses not to be hen pecked……and for such issues, sending the wife a divorce notice isnt needed……

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD



Also i want to ask you if i man is told he can lift his hand if the woman misbehaves, then where do we draw the line about what is actually misbehaviour and whats not. In a husband - wife relationship will society be standing judgement about what is happening privately ??? No they won't even come to know that easily. Man can take advantage of such a acceptance provided by society and be encouraged to use physical force even when its not required.

and thereby hangs a tale……There are certain issues which cannot lie In the grey area…they are either "RIGHT" OR WRONG"……infidelity , promiscuity are such issues where there is no room for debate…….as I said, nagging, carping, whining etc cannot be called "misbehaviour" …but cheating on the spouse,disrespecting the elders,doing drugs,dipsomania,behaving in a morally incorrect fashion etc etc come under the category of "misbehaviour"…Society cannot be fully blamed too….certain things that the society has laid down are correct…. The society opposes infidelity, and that is right……..and you made another point" In a husband - wife relationship will society be standing judgement about what is happening privately ??? No they won't even come to know that easily"…..don't you think its better to correct the wife before it becomes a public mockery?????.Isnt it better to correct the abberant wife before she throws the parents out of the house….isnt it better to root the issue out in the premature stages before it snowballs……

Originally posted by Aparna_BD


Lastly why isn't the rule same for woman. You may say yes a woman should also hit the man if he goes out of line . But really can a woman who is a weaker built and atleast  30- 40 (more or less)pounds lighter than her . Can she take advantage of the same rule ?????? No since she can't. That weapon needs to be taken away from all . No justification and acceptance should be given to use of "slaps" in a marriage.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gancer… Ofcourse she can slap him if HE IS COMPLETELY 200% WRONG....and in such cases, men really don't retaliate……A  woman finds her 10 year marriage on the rocks when she suddenly sees her husband sleeping with anther woman……till then, the husband has put up a faade of a one woman man…..and out of the blue, she uncovers his true colours….Now I wouldn't really think that husband would assualt her and brutally beat her up if she slaps him…he would be embarrassed as he is at fault……..and the same applies to a man too…if he slaps hiw unfaithful wife, I wouldn't call that an abuse…yeah, he can talk to her about it…but try to imagine the man's mental state…..Wouldn't it be  bolt from the blue???Would he be calm and collected  or would he be sucked into a maelstrom of emotions……ranging from anger, to deceit, to hurt, to anguish,  to shock…..would he be in his full senses and tsay to himself"yes, now I will divorce her..story over ..i have to be the "perfect man" by acting in the most cool and composed manner...that would win me many an applause...Dead"…..For heavens sake, he's a man, not a robot..... at the end of the day, everyone(man and woman) are humans…….

 

i"ll reply to the other post tomorrowSmile



Edited by Buffie - 19 June 2006 at 5:17pm

Aparna_BD

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Aparna_BD

Joined: 01 July 2005

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Posted: 19 June 2006 at 2:29pm | IP Logged
Buffie i think you are confused between two roles. One is a guardian - a keeper , protector for a child. And the other is a mentor- A person who teaches another one who needs learning.

The couple you described , it clearly sounds that her husband was her mentor. The woman sounds like an intelligent woman who needed a mentor not a father. She got a mentor in her husband. She may have been a "babe in the woods" but she certainly must not be dumb. So even when she married her husband she could still as an adult understand and make decisions. In such cases a partner will explain the pros and cons and will make suggestions. He will tell her that these are the advantages and these are the disadvantages . As my partner what do you suggest. As a guardian he will not be making a decision and imposing it on her.

In financial matters i am as dumb and stupid as a villager. My hubby is really good with these things as he reads financial magazines for investement purposes etc. Now when important financial decisions are made - they are made jointly. He explains to me what is benefical to us and whats not. He does influence my decision on these matters as i know he knows better. But we jointly decide if we should invest in such a thing or not. That does NOT turn him into my guardian. Just because he knows more than me. As a woman i may know more in some matters say like house keeping, cooking and child rearing.  Thats what makes us a equal partner. He may be good in things outside the home. But as a wife , some one may be good at keeping a neat cupboard, cooking, washing clothes, how to massage a baby, when to burp a baby, how to hold a baby. This is what makes a man and a wife equal.

Buffie says "Divorce is easier said than done…….There are times when the wife deserves a slap but not a divorce……There are mnay things which can be set right if a man choses not to be hen pecked……and for such issues, sending the wife a divorce notice isnt needed……"

Yes Buffie who would know that better than a married person. TongueThere are no times when wife deserves a slap. If she is cheating on her husband then the marriage got over the day she crossed her limits. If she never adjusted with the husbands family and is abusive at all times. And a talk with her and even counselling hasn't helped. Then Buffie its time to seperate. This "slap" will not make her change her behavior. I have several good friends who are already divorced in their early 30's. So i know from speaking to them that divorce wasn't an easy solution. But when circumstances lead up to it. Then sadly thats whats got to be done. No amount of spanking the wife will change her behaviour for the better. I want to ask you have you ever heard of a man who slapped his wife and was really able to put sense in her head ?? I haven't heard of it and i am older than you. Even in Hindi soaps when the hero slaps his bi*chy wife . He is unable to knock sense in her head.So what makes you think this will work in reality?

Buffie says"

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander… Ofcourse she can slap him if HE IS COMPLETELY 200% WRONG....and in such cases, men really don't retaliate……A  woman finds her 10 year marriage on the rocks when she suddenly sees her husband sleeping with anther woman……till then, the husband has put up a faade of a one woman man…..and out of the blue, she uncovers his true colours….Now I wouldn't really think that husband would assualt her and brutally beat her up if she slaps him…he would be embarrassed as he is at fault……..and the same applies to a man too…if he slaps hiw unfaithful wife, I wouldn't call that an abuse…yeah, he can talk to her about it…but try to imagine the man's mental state…..Wouldn't it be  bolt from the blue???Would he be calm and collected  or would he be sucked into a maelstrom of emotions……ranging from anger, to deceit, to hurt, to anguish,  to shock…..would he be in his full senses and tsay to himself"yes, now I will divorce her..story over ..i have to be the "perfect man" by acting in the most cool and composed manner...that would win me many an applause...Dead"…..For heavens sake, he's a man, not a robot..... at the end of the day, everyone(man and woman) are humans……."

Buffie what makes you think the cheating husband won't block his wifes slap and probably throw her around. What makes you believe that lecture and a slap will make him break up his extra marital relationship ? Now you are completely thinking of what is an "ideal" reaction from the cheating husband. Life doesn't work that way. If the man has had the guts to cheat around and he will believe he may be able to get away from this bullsh*t then what makes you believe he will take his wife's slap and lecture lightly and not fly into rage of his own. Maybe he'll blame her for not being an adequate woman . Maybe he will tell her to take what ever action she wants , well aware that his wife may not be able to break a marriage and take away his children.

When a man finds his wife cheating. Yes he will go through a range of emotions. But a man who has never in his life lifted his hand will still be unable to do so. He may hate her , he may beg her to stay , he may say he doesn't want to see her face. But what i want you to know Buffie words are powerfull enough for all those emotions to be expressed. Yes they are ,you feel to show a power of the emotion words must be supplemented with a slap. Don't forget a pen is mightier than a sword. What words can express , the use of physical force can never do so.

Nothing will help a marriage thats in peril but a good chat or counselling. Certainly not a slap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Edited by Aparna_BD - 19 June 2006 at 3:17pm

insouciance

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insouciance

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Posted: 19 June 2006 at 5:59pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

Buffie i think you are confused between two roles. One is a guardian - a keeper , protector for a child. And the other is a mentor- A person who teaches another one who needs learning.

The couple you described , it clearly sounds that her husband was her mentor. The woman sounds like an intelligent woman who needed a mentor not a father. She got a mentor in her husband. She may have been a "babe in the woods" but she certainly must not be dumb. So even when she married her husband she could still as an adult understand and make decisions. In such cases a partner will explain the pros and cons and will make suggestions. He will tell her that these are the advantages and these are the disadvantages . As my partner what do you suggest. As a guardian he will not be making a decision and imposing it on her.

 

 

So are you defending the parents who enforce their grown up kids??isnt that too abuse of a sort..then how can we say that when parents enforce or beat their kids up, its OKAY..ofcourse, notwithstanding the decisions parents make for their toddlers( a ka choice of the school, choice of clothes, choice of name etc)…….and about the guardian, the counter example is cited in the next parragraphSmile…..Agreed, a woman with subnormal intelligence can be mentored, but a woman who has zilch knowledge in certain realms such as investment etc cannot be mentored....she can be gradually taught things, but there is no point in discussing things with her about which she knows nothing......She can be taught those things, and then be consulted...But initially, she cant!

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD



In financial matters i am as dumb and stupid as a villager. My hubby is really good with these things as he reads financial magazines for investement purposes etc. Now when important financial decisions are made - they are made jointly. He explains to me what is benefical to us and whats not. He does influence my decision on these matters as i know he knows better. But we jointly decide if we should invest in such a thing or not. That does NOT turn him into my guardian. Just because he knows more than me. As a woman i may know more in some matters say like house keeping, cooking and child rearing.  Thats what makes us a equal partner. He may be good in things outside the home. But as a wife , some one may be good at keeping a neat cupboard, cooking, washing clothes, how to massage a baby, when to burp a baby, how to hold a baby. This is what makes a man and a wife equal.

 

You are talking about a couple who know atleast "something" about the concerned matter…What if a Wharton graduate marries an illiterate village girl who has never been to school in her life(a very very far fetched example)..Do you think he would be explaing finance to her???Would she understand even one bit of anything like " how to invest to get the best tax consessions…….."..In such cases, when the wife is a complete ignoramus when finance or investment is concerned, would the husband be discussing those matters with her….wouldn't he decide without discussing something which will sound Greek to her…in that case, doesn't he become her guardian?????

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

Originally posted by Buffie



Buffie says "Divorce is easier said than done…….There are times when the wife deserves a slap but not a divorce……There are mnay things which can be set right if a man choses not to be hen pecked……and for such issues, sending the wife a divorce notice isnt needed……"

Yes Buffie who would know that better than a married person.Tongue

 

 

I might not be maried, but I'm not a nincompoopLOLLOL

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

There are no times when wife deserves a slap. If she is cheating on her husband then the marriage got over the day she crossed her limits.

 

But the husband is not a robot…say the husband loved the wife like mad, he did everything to please her and keep her happy….he has never before raised his voice, let alone hand….but one fine day, he realizes that she has  been cheating on him for the past 7 years…. ….He cant calmly take the rough as he does with the smooth….the unfaithful wife whom he loved and trusted so much does deserve a slap ..more about this has been said in the following paragraphs...

 

 

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 If she never adjusted with the husbands family and is abusive at all times. And a talk with her and even counselling hasn't helped. Then Buffie its time to seperate. This "slap" will not make her change her behavior.

 

It wouldn't..i never said that just one slap would metamorphose the bitchiest of the bitchiest into a seraph…..but a not so good, not so bad wife, may change when sense is drilled into her head…Perhaps she would be enraged at the moment, but later when she ponders in solitude about whether she was right or wrong, it may dawn upon her ….There are women who dont let the husbands have a word in between when they talk....…..now if he very cooly corrects her saying"hey look honey..i know you have problems, but please sort it out"…would it really have an impact on the stubborn wife…..Ofcourse, her basic nature wouldn't change if she is spanked, but atleast she would think twice before denigrating her in laws in future

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

I have several good friends who are already divorced in their early 30's. So i know from speaking to them that divorce wasn't an easy solution. But when circumstances lead up to it. Then sadly thats whats got to be done. No amount of spanking the wife will change her behaviour for the better.

 

Divorce is the outcome when the marriage has reached an impasse situation…even if the couple have the slightest inkling that their marriage can be worked out if they make a few compromises, then I say make them…… I am not saying a an unfaithful husband needs to be forgiven....and at the end of the day, it differs from individual to individual...some wives may forgive, some may not....so that's subjective

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

I want to ask you have you ever heard of a man who slapped his wife and was really able to put sense in her head ?? I haven't heard of it and i am older than you. Even in Hindi soaps when the hero slaps his bi*chy wife . He is unable to knock sense in her head.So what makes you think this will work in reality?

 

But do we always think a thousand times before we say or do anythingTongue(actually we must beTongueLOL, but then we are human beings, and not always can we carry ourselves to perfection)…..another example(and I promise you this is my last exampleTongueLOLEmbarrassed) ….a wife who has been nagging her hubby to shove his parents into an oldage home…She has been egging him on for months..he has tried explaining to her,he has done everything possible under the sun…..Yet again one fine day she  brings up the same topic again, and this day she crosses all her limits……and he cant take it anymore….he spanks her……No, his spank wouldn't change her attitude, it wouldn't make her love her inlaws whom she has only hated till then….but then, how could we expect him to keep his cool 24-7…there are limits of tolerance,and when a woman crosses all knows limits of decensy, it wouldn't be wrong if she slapped….

Another thing is, not  every action would garner the desired consequence……and just because an acion does not have a consequence, it wouldn't become an "abuse" ……Just because nothing is going to be achieved by slapping a woman who faked to be a wonderful wife(but in reality was a  tramp), the entire act of slapping her for her infidelity wouldn't become an "abuse" or a "waste"....in that way, there are so many things that a re nothing but wastes...girls drool over john abraham..now no one is going to get him....what do girls achieve by drooling???..NOTHING!!!....so logically speaking, the drooling over is a waste....…when it comes to venting the emotions, the brain takes the backseat...all logic fails

Originally posted by Aparna_BD



Buffie what makes you think the cheating husband won't block his wifes slap and probably throw her around. What makes you believe that lecture and a slap will make him break up his extra marital relationship ?

No, I never said anything about the consequence of the slap or what really is going to be achieved…Its an instantaneous reaction, when the person who slaps is wallowing in hurt/dejection/anger/bitterness/loss of faith etc etc…and the person concerned really cannot think logically then…..tell me, do WE always follow our head???…don't we follow our heart too…..and when the faith and the love the husband harboured for the wife for years is shattered, the brain takes the backseat and he really wouldn't be able to use logic and wonder as to what is to be done next…cant a human being be entitled to even feel sad, to feel deceived????

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 Now you are completely thinking of what is an "ideal" reaction from the cheating husband. Life doesn't work that way.

That's what I'm sayingLOL….The ideal reaction would be to just walk out on the cheating husband/wife, and file a court case…the realistic reaction would be a slap, or a dose of wailing, ranting whatever one fanciesLOL

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

If the man has had the guts to cheat around and he will believe he may be able to get away from this bullsh*t then what makes you believe he will take his wife's slap and lecture lightly and not fly into rage of his own. Maybe he'll blame her for not be an adequate woman. Maybe he will tell her to take what ever action she wants , well aware that his wife may not be able to break a marriage and take away his children.

 

Couldn't have disagreed with you anymore…….for starters , I'm wasn't talking about a man who abuses his wife even when he's wrong..such a man would be an abuser in daily life too, a chauvinistic pig who would be exercising his chauvinism in daily life matters too…..and when there's no real shock or jolt,I don't think a wife would get hysterical(unless she wants to create a melodramatic effect)….she would feel sad, but her shock would be definitely less than the shock a woman experiences, whose husband who was  supposed to be an " altruist and puritan"  cheats on her …and such a husband, who is otherwise a quite OKAY fellow, but whose only weakness is the opposite sex, wouldn't really hit his wife whe she accuses him of infidelity…….There are some men who are chauvinistic, promiscuous,egoistic,an alcoholic….and even if the battered wife of such a swine uncovers his infidelity, she wouldn't really be "SHOCKED" as she already knows what sort of a man he is as he hasn't put up any kind of a faade ….the women I'm talking about are those who were deceived into believing that their husbands are Sri Ram's, and those who have really held their husbands in high regard…when such a man's true colours comes out, it is extremely painful for the wife…and he himself would feel guilty, and wouldn't really reciprocate her slap….i'm not talking about the ruffians, I am talking about a man who has certain weaknesses, certain frailities but who has concealed his other side from his wife…he necessarily need not be a chauvinist,he might not be an abuser, but he might be unfaithful….and when such a man is rightfully slapped, he wouldn't slap his wife back

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

When a man finds his wife cheating. Yes he will go through a range of emotions. But a man who has never in his life lifetd his hand will still be unable to do so.

If the hurt and the deceit hits him with full force, why cant he ????circumstances bring out the best and the worst in a human being……I might have never even raised my voice in my life, but if my chastity is in danger, I might even kill my assaulter……

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 He may hate her , he may beg her to stay , he may say he doesn't want to see her face. But what i want you to know Buffie words are powerfull enough for all those emotions to be expressed.

But at that point of time, when the truth about the husband/wife starkly stares at the spouse  for the first time, would he/she really be in a state of mind to even say anything…..do you think the husband/wife would be in a state of mind to give a lecture???/definitely not!!

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

 Yes they are

They are, but not on the spur of the moment……

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

you feel to show a power of the emotion words must be supplemented with a slap. Don't forget a pen is mightier than a sword. What words can express , the use of physical force can never do so

But would a person be able to actually think at that moment???would he/she be in a state of mind to mouth a few rabble rousing lines…that migth happen on television, not in real life……..



Edited by Buffie - 19 June 2006 at 6:01pm

Minnie

IF-Veteran Member

Minnie

Joined: 20 September 2004

Posts: 8640

Posted: 19 June 2006 at 7:08pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Buffie

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

Buffie i think you are confused between two roles. One is a guardian - a keeper , protector for a child. And the other is a mentor- A person who teaches another one who needs learning.

The couple you described , it clearly sounds that her husband was her mentor. The woman sounds like an intelligent woman who needed a mentor not a father. She got a mentor in her husband. She may have been a "babe in the woods" but she certainly must not be dumb. So even when she married her husband she could still as an adult understand and make decisions. In such cases a partner will explain the pros and cons and will make suggestions. He will tell her that these are the advantages and these are the disadvantages . As my partner what do you suggest. As a guardian he will not be making a decision and imposing it on her.

 

 

So are you defending the parents who enforce their grown up kids??isnt that too abuse of a sort..then how can we say that when parents enforce or beat their kids up, its OKAY..ofcourse, notwithstanding the decisions parents make for their toddlers( a ka choice of the school, choice of clothes, choice of name etc)…….and about the guardian, the counter example is cited in the next parragraphSmile…..Agreed, a woman with subnormal intelligence can be mentored, but a woman who has zilch knowledge in certain realms such as investment etc cannot be mentored....she can be gradually taught things, but there is no point in discussing things with her about which she knows nothing......She can be taught those things, and then be consulted...But initially, she cant!

 

 

My answers will be in BLUE - or else it will be very very confusing....LOL

 

Buffie, when two adults meet for any reason, it can be possible that one of them might be very very ignorant of the ways of the other. He or she will be taught, and that role can be assumed by a friend, a husband, even a neighbour. That does not make the more knowlegeable person a 'guardian'. Once a person reaches an adult age, he or she might need the initiation to the ways of an alien world, but the dependence factor has to be by choice, not by default. You are talking about kids, who are considered teh responsibilty of a parent because the virtue of birth, and they are raised and guided and require permission for certain things as they are not deemed fit legally to take certain decisions. A company gives it's employees training, as they need it to carry the company policy forward. In this case, the company does NOT become a guardian by default. A husband is never ever a guardian, he is a partner, who is on the equal footing with his wife. Just as a man might train his wife to deal with the world he lives in, at times, a wife too might have to teach her husband things which he is not aware of (For eg, a girl living in US falls in love with an Indian Villager and brings him to US.......teaches him the ways of US.....she in no way becomes her guardian). None of it makes either of them a guardian to their other half.In fact, in Sanskrit, a wife has been called an ardhangini...........the other half....and that exactly what she is, no matter how young, naive or whatever she is when she gets married.

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD



In financial matters i am as dumb and stupid as a villager. My hubby is really good with these things as he reads financial magazines for investement purposes etc. Now when important financial decisions are made - they are made jointly. He explains to me what is benefical to us and whats not. He does influence my decision on these matters as i know he knows better. But we jointly decide if we should invest in such a thing or not. That does NOT turn him into my guardian. Just because he knows more than me. As a woman i may know more in some matters say like house keeping, cooking and child rearing.  Thats what makes us a equal partner. He may be good in things outside the home. But as a wife , some one may be good at keeping a neat cupboard, cooking, washing clothes, how to massage a baby, when to burp a baby, how to hold a baby. This is what makes a man and a wife equal.

 

You are talking about a couple who know atleast "something" about the concerned matter…What if a Wharton graduate marries an illiterate village girl who has never been to school in her life(a very very far fetched example)..Do you think he would be explaing finance to her???Would she understand even one bit of anything like " how to invest to get the best tax consessions…….."..In such cases, when the wife is a complete ignoramus when finance or investment is concerned, would the husband be discussing those matters with her….wouldn't he decide without discussing something which will sound Greek to her…in that case, doesn't he become her guardian?????

 

The same thing Buffie - what if an educated woman marries a simpleton and has to teach him the ways of the world ?? In fact she can be older to him too.................there are women who marry younger men.........it does NOT make her his guardian - just a partner who thinks her other half needs to be informed of some social ettiquetes of the modern world..........

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

Originally posted by Buffie



Buffie says "Divorce is easier said than done…….There are times when the wife deserves a slap but not a divorce……There are mnay things which can be set right if a man choses not to be hen pecked……and for such issues, sending the wife a divorce notice isnt needed……"

Yes Buffie who would know that better than a married person.Tongue

 

 

 

 

I might not be maried, but I'm not a nincompoopLOLLOL

 

yes, I can see that as well......but you are ignorant of the way husband wife equations work............

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

There are no times when wife deserves a slap. If she is cheating on her husband then the marriage got over the day she crossed her limits.

 

But the husband is not a robot…say the husband loved the wife like mad, he did everything to please her and keep her happy….he has never before raised his voice, let alone hand….but one fine day, he realizes that she has  been cheating on him for the past 7 years…. ….He cant calmly take the rough as he does with the smooth….the unfaithful wife whom he loved and trusted so much does deserve a slap ..more about this has been said in the following paragraphs...

 

Buffie, if a man is silent when the wife is abusing, he is at fault. He needs to lay down his pov in no uncertain terms, and THAT needs to be done in conversation. If a hen pecked guy turns around and slaps his wife because he knows no other way, it's not going to achieve a thing. She is going to become even more venomous, and perhaps even slap him back........if he has been henpecked, he had reasons to be so, and not having a spine is the biggest one of them.....and if he beats her because he is unable to counter her points verbally, then he simply misuses the physical power he has....I wonder if he would even dare to exercise that power if his wife weighs roughly 20 kgs more than him.....LOL.......ever notice fat wives never ever get beaten up by their thin hubbies??????

 

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 If she never adjusted with the husbands family and is abusive at all times. And a talk with her and even counselling hasn't helped. Then Buffie its time to seperate. This "slap" will not make her change her behavior.

 

It wouldn't..i never said that just one slap would metamorphose the bitchiest of the bitchiest into a seraph…..but a not so good, not so bad wife, may change when sense is drilled into her head…Perhaps she would be enraged at the moment, but later when she ponders in solitude about whether she was right or wrong, it may dawn upon her ….There are women who dont let the husbands have a word in between when they talk....…..now if he very cooly corrects her saying"hey look honey..i know you have problems, but please sort it out"…would it really have an impact on the stubborn wife…..Ofcourse, her basic nature wouldn't change if she is spanked, but atleast she would think twice before denigrating her in laws in future

 

Buffie, there are very very very few girls who set out to degrade their inlaws, no matter what's shown in the films. It comes from both sides. Sometimes independent gilrs speak their minds, and that is taken as an affront by the inlaws and deemed as disrespect........slapping around is not a solution. laying down rules are.

 

But those who are this way, trust me, no amount of beating is going to do the trick. It might subjugate her for a while, but she will not change. Scaring her into behaving well will not do anyone any good. And if she can be slapped for behaving bad, then I think the woman should have the same power as well. Get slapped, and slap back. Simple.

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

I have several good friends who are already divorced in their early 30's. So i know from speaking to them that divorce wasn't an easy solution. But when circumstances lead up to it. Then sadly thats whats got to be done. No amount of spanking the wife will change her behaviour for the better.

 

Divorce is the outcome when the marriage has reached an impasse situation…even if the couple have the slightest inkling that their marriage can be worked out if they make a few compromises, then I say make them…… I am not saying a an unfaithful husband needs to be forgiven....and at the end of the day, it differs from individual to individual...some wives may forgive, some may not....so that's subjective

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

I want to ask you have you ever heard of a man who slapped his wife and was really able to put sense in her head ?? I haven't heard of it and i am older than you. Even in Hindi soaps when the hero slaps his bi*chy wife . He is unable to knock sense in her head.So what makes you think this will work in reality?

 

But do we always think a thousand times before we say or do anythingTongue(actually we must beTongueLOL, but then we are human beings, and not always can we carry ourselves to perfection)…..another example(and I promise you this is my last exampleTongueLOLEmbarrassed) ….a wife who has been nagging her hubby to shove his parents into an oldage home…She has been egging him on for months..he has tried explaining to her,he has done everything possible under the sun…..Yet again one fine day she  brings up the same topic again, and this day she crosses all her limits……and he cant take it anymore….he spanks her……No, his spank wouldn't change her attitude, it wouldn't make her love her inlaws whom she has only hated till then….but then, how could we expect him to keep his cool 24-7…there are limits of tolerance,and when a woman crosses all knows limits of decensy, it wouldn't be wrong if she slapped….

Another thing is, not  every action would garner the desired consequence……and just because an acion does not have a consequence, it wouldn't become an "abuse" ……Just because nothing is going to be achieved by slapping a woman who faked to be a wonderful wife(but in reality was a  tramp), the entire act of slapping her for her infidelity wouldn't become an "abuse" or a "waste"....in that way, there are so many things that a re nothing but wastes...girls drool over john abraham..now no one is going to get him....what do girls achieve by drooling???..NOTHING!!!....so logically speaking, the drooling over is a waste....…when it comes to venting the emotions, the brain takes the backseat...all logic fails

Originally posted by Aparna_BD



Buffie what makes you think the cheating husband won't block his wifes slap and probably throw her around. What makes you believe that lecture and a slap will make him break up his extra marital relationship ?

No, I never said anything about the consequence of the slap or what really is going to be achieved…Its an instantaneous reaction, when the person who slaps is wallowing in hurt/dejection/anger/bitterness/loss of faith etc etc…and the person concerned really cannot think logically then…..tell me, do WE always follow our head???…don't we follow our heart too…..and when the faith and the love the husband harboured for the wife for years is shattered, the brain takes the backseat and he really wouldn't be able to use logic and wonder as to what is to be done next…cant a human being be entitled to even feel sad, to feel deceived????

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 Now you are completely thinking of what is an "ideal" reaction from the cheating husband. Life doesn't work that way.

That's what I'm sayingLOL….The ideal reaction would be to just walk out on the cheating husband/wife, and file a court case…the realistic reaction would be a slap, or a dose of wailing, ranting whatever one fanciesLOL

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

If the man has had the guts to cheat around and he will believe he may be able to get away from this bullsh*t then what makes you believe he will take his wife's slap and lecture lightly and not fly into rage of his own. Maybe he'll blame her for not be an adequate woman. Maybe he will tell her to take what ever action she wants , well aware that his wife may not be able to break a marriage and take away his children.

 

Couldn't have disagreed with you anymore…….for starters , I'm wasn't talking about a man who abuses his wife even when he's wrong..such a man would be an abuser in daily life too, a chauvinistic pig who would be exercising his chauvinism in daily life matters too…..and when there's no real shock or jolt,I don't think a wife would get hysterical(unless she wants to create a melodramatic effect)….she would feel sad, but her shock would be definitely less than the shock a woman experiences, whose husband who was  supposed to be an " altruist and puritan"  cheats on her …and such a husband, who is otherwise a quite OKAY fellow, but whose only weakness is the opposite sex, wouldn't really hit his wife whe she accuses him of infidelity…….There are some men who are chauvinistic, promiscuous,egoistic,an alcoholic….and even if the battered wife of such a swine uncovers his infidelity, she wouldn't really be "SHOCKED" as she already knows what sort of a man he is as he hasn't put up any kind of a faade ….the women I'm talking about are those who were deceived into believing that their husbands are Sri Ram's, and those who have really held their husbands in high regard…when such a man's true colours comes out, it is extremely painful for the wife…and he himself would feel guilty, and wouldn't really reciprocate her slap….i'm not talking about the ruffians, I am talking about a man who has certain weaknesses, certain frailities but who has concealed his other side from his wife…he necessarily need not be a chauvinist,he might not be an abuser, but he might be unfaithful….and when such a man is rightfully slapped, he wouldn't slap his wife back

 

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

When a man finds his wife cheating. Yes he will go through a range of emotions. But a man who has never in his life lifetd his hand will still be unable to do so.

If the hurt and the deceit hits him with full force, why cant he ????circumstances bring out the best and the worst in a human being……I might have never even raised my voice in my life, but if my chastity is in danger, I might even kill my assaulter……

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 He may hate her , he may beg her to stay , he may say he doesn't want to see her face. But what i want you to know Buffie words are powerfull enough for all those emotions to be expressed.

But at that point of time, when the truth about the husband/wife starkly stares at the spouse  for the first time, would he/she really be in a state of mind to even say anything…..do you think the husband/wife would be in a state of mind to give a lecture???/definitely not!!

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

 

 Yes they are

They are, but not on the spur of the moment……

Originally posted by Aparna_BD

you feel to show a power of the emotion words must be supplemented with a slap. Don't forget a pen is mightier than a sword. What words can express , the use of physical force can never do so

But would a person be able to actually think at that moment???would he/she be in a state of mind to mouth a few rabble rousing lines…that migth happen on television, not in real life……..

My pov is, slapping when faced with infidelity or deciet can be and is often the most instantaneous reaction of a decieved person. I know that if I found my husband cheating, i might just launch on to him in outrage.........that's the human, basic impulse. But that applies to both men and woman. And all said and done, it solves nothing. if my husband is unfaithful, no amount of slapping will 'drill' senses into him. being physically stronger, he might just be able to ward off my blows, unless I manage to get a kitchen knife into him. In return, if I am unfaithful and he discovers, he might react the same way, and being physically much stronger, i might never make it to my doorway, and if I do, i will simply walk out for my life and not look back...............in short, slapping and hitting does not achieve anything.

And when it's done to subjugate someone, it's abuse. Plain and simple.

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