Originally posted by varaali
We seem to be going around in circles.
Well I and Vrish and earlier I and Janaki were replying to each other in continuous flow 1-1 points. So it was natural flow of discussion actually with every post to be response to other's post or clarification of own previous post. I never aimed at concluding or expected the conclusion of this thread so early actually so perhaps it seemed that we were going in circles. Actually more clarifications were happening and were ongoing. But anyway I am truly enjoying all these systematic summary posts of yours and Bhas1066.
Presently the question in circulation seems to be twofold :
- Whether Buddha was an avatar of Vishnu or not
- If so, does he figure in the top 10, or in the larger group of 22?
Let me try to summarize everybody's arguments:
Vrish 's : objection to Gautama Buddha is that in his search for enlightenment, he abandoned his family / kingdom midway without providing for their future. This act of renunciation / abandonment is not sanctified by scriptures, hence this counts against him. Verdict : Cannot be considered an avatar
Janaki : allows Buddha to be an avatar but in the larger group of 22, not in the Dasha Avatar subsect
Is it so? I thought Janaki is of the firm view till the end that Buddha can be any noble or sage soul like any rishi of our epics but not Vishnu. So not even in 22.
Shivang : Not all the avatars of Vishnu need to have had identical philosophies. Each avatar was distinct / different from each other. Similarly, despite all the arguments marshalled against Gautama, he can be considered an avatar. Verdict : Can be considered an avatar , that too in the top ten.
Yes. I am actually open to count him in either top 10 (no problem for sure) or in 22 (if not in top 10) and my consideration through most of the discussions in the thread has been on the acceptance or belief of 22/24 avatars and often I brought forward names of Kapil, Dattatreya, Rishabhdev, Vyas etc along with those links. And Balram I consider to be incarnation of Vishnu jointly with Krishna like Vrish said if at all we count him in top 10. In 22 avatars, he is clearly separately counted and it doesn't make any difference really over there since it doesn't distort the premise or theory of 4:3:2:1 in that total counting.
Varaali : Now,first of all, I would like to ask who's word do we take as the final authority? For me, I would like to consider Srimad Bhagavatham / Veda Vyasa as the guiding source. And here, there are answers to the questions raised in this thread.
As I said earlier, SB mentions 22 avatars of Vishnu. Let us forget the subsect of Dasha Avatars for a minute and concentrate on the bigger list of 22. In that list, there are avatars as diverse as Kurma (who did nothing but to support the mountain) , King Prithu, Sage Kapila , Mohini and the four Sanat Kumaras.
It is in this list that Buddha is included. Our problem in reconciling with Buddha seems to be the fact that the tenets that he preached seem to go against the pillars on which Hinduism stood . My answer to that is this was what he was supposed to do anyway. His birth and his preachings had been predicted at the dawn of Kali Yuga itself.
Srimad Bhagavtham, Veda Vyasa and Suta Goswami had no problems with accepting the fact that in His next incarnation as Buddha, Vishnu is not going to talk about the Vedas, yagnas, rituals, etc but will preach on more basic, fundamental social ethics.
It is also said in SB itself that such an unique / different avatar will be required because of the turbulent times the world will be passing through. Scientific knowledge would have advanced so much that men would be shooting invisible rockets / missiles into outer space which will hold a threat of not only destroying life on Earth, but lives(if at all) on other spheres as well.
So I am not going to reject Gautama Buddha's claim to avatar hood just because he did not give importance to what is considered sacrosanct in Hinduism. If SB, Vyasa and Suta have allowed him to be an avatr who am I to question it ?
Perfect. But that doesn't mean I am going to start celebrating Buddha Jayanti with gusto (except maybe to wish Shivang on his birthday ) . Idhar bhi nahi bhule!!!!! Waise let me clarify that this is not the reason why I have no problem in considering him Vishnu avatar.