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The myth of ''reverse discrimination''!

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Idle Skepblun

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Posted: 09 July 2012 at 6:02am | IP Logged
I am sorry if anyone feels offended - though I am not writing this to offend anyone. 

I read posts here, comments on other blogs, news websites and social networks like FB and Twitter. And I was surprised and rather amused to see the kind of comments people from supposed upper castes were making - saying ''real issue'' is that of caste reservations or ''casteism is due to reservations'' (!) or that Aamir's episode was ''one sided''  and ''what about discrimination of upper caste''!Dead

Sorry to say, but I completely disagree with such comments and notion of so-called reverse discrimination!

- First, casteism is not a result of reservations. It is reservations which came about as a result of casteism which had continued to exploit an entire population of people for thousands of years!

- Second, the so-called ''suffering'' which ''upper castes'' go through is nothing compared to sufferings which the 'lower castes'' and tribes had to go through for thousands of years. 

What do we guys have to face? Some frustration at not being able to secure seats at premier institutes due to reservations? That is all. We were never asked to clean toilets at our nursery school the way ''lower caste'' kids are still compelled to do in various parts of the country. We don't get labelled as ''chooda'' or ''chamaar'' or judged by our appearance. Our elders are not handed jhaadu-pocha to clean the building in which we live. We aren't denied accommodation only on basis of our caste. No one ostracises us, ridicules us or performs some ''purification'' ceremonies at places we have stayed or even sat! 

How the hell can upper castes compare their so-called suffering to the suffering which lower castes and their ancestors had to go through? The lower caste ones are still ridiculed - even if they succeed on their own merit, or are assumed to have less intellect, less ''class'' - just dismissed as inferior! 

Some years ago, an SC had made it to Top 10 rankers in a prestigious national level entrance test for law. And looking at rank list, so-called high class people were wondering how come an SC made it to top 10! They are supposed to make it ''only through reservation''!Angry Another time, a police officer from ''low caste'' had ranked #1 in IAS exam - his selection was also met with surprise only. So the lower caste one is humiliated even in success achieved on his own merit when people express wonder at how he achieved it ''despite his caste''!Shocked

A person from ''lower caste'' even if he makes it on his own merit is looked at either with surprise or people think he was given top marks because exam board was ''favouring'' his caste!Dead

Still the so-called higher caste ones think it is they who are ''suffering'' due to reservations?! ''Choodey toh Raje hain aaj kal!'' - that's how they dismiss them!Thumbs Down

The upper caste made it worse for lower caste even after reservations. Now they say it's reservations which cause casteism! ClownHa! It's we guys who made it worse for lower castes by alleging they get everything ''easily'' and have no merit. 

My question for all ''upper castes'' is why blame ''lower castes'' and ''STs'' to hide your performance in an exam? Also, if the upper castes continued to blame, bully and dismiss lower castes as brainless for centuries, and thought of themselves as superior in terms of intellect, then why can't they top exams, get top scores on their own merit and make it to top colleges irrespective of reservations? 

- ALSO, MAIN POINT - Why and HOW do upper caste ones or their supporters reduce issue of casteism to just reservation debate eh?! How come you ignore or wish to divert attention from humiliation, stereotyping and ostracism which people from ''lower caste'' are subjected to, whether they have achieved something in life or not? How can you ignore excesses committed against Dalits by rich and so-called high class people in remote villages of India - raping, disrobing women, literally buying Dalit kids as slaves, bonded labour, torture, lynching, public humiliation by village mob?!
How you try to hide how lower caste students are ridiculed in urban areas also, bullied or forced to clean other students' rooms and toilets in hostel?! Or isolated in mess and common hall?

Then ''upper'' caste ones try to mix poverty with casteism - though they are interrelated BUT DIFFERENT issues altogether! Brahmins or other ''high castes'' being poor or ''poorer'' does not imply that issue of casteism is not there at all, or that higher castes suffer ''as much'' or ''more than'' the ''lower castes''! No excuse to paint ourselves as bigger victims of ''reverse casteism''!

I belong to so-called upper caste and I do not think I suffered anything except in case of admissions. And even that, while I admit I feel bewildered to see some people with lower marks get into top institutes due to reservation - I do not deny even my own responsibility. I probably should have worked harder or attempted the paper better according to my category.

I have seen even top professors being ridiculed by their own colleagues as ''chooda'' or ''chamaar'' in front of them and behind their backs. I've seen students trying to insult professors based on their so-called ''low caste''. Censored

This is casteism. You get bashed, humiliated even if you're established in your profession and made it on your own merit. Casteism is not just about reservations.

- We also complain of our so-called ''religion'' or ''religious texts'' being ''insulted'' or ''misinterpreted''. So what is the right or true reading of your ''religion''? And more importantly, why do religions, which had no mention of caste continue to practise caste discrimination?! 

What is the excuse or explanation for humiliating and torturing an entire section of population for centuries? 

Has any upper caste (be it rich or poor) ever suffered so much torture simply or humiliation simply on basis of his/her caste? Did people of their own community and religion, disrobe their women simply on basis of caste?

I would really like to know what so-called ''reverse casteism'' or ''reverse discrimination'' the ''upper or middle level'' castes (!) are facing! And is it comparable to casteism and discrimination faced by lower castes?

- Why object only at caste reservations? Why no hoopla over reservations based on domicile, gender, foreign/NRI background and so-called management quota?! Dead In some universities there is quota even for employees' kids! Why not bash such quotas also?

- The issue of reservations is highly debatable. In some ways it exacerbated casteism and made us more conscious of our labels. It is used for vote bank politics. I would basically favour abolition of notion of caste altogether (tradition or culture is no excuse). Perhaps it is right to expect reservations to be scraped altogether. But does it mean casteism will stop and state of lower caste people would be improved? 

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE to this notion of ''reverse casteism'' or ''great suffering'' of upper caste and reducing complex issue of casteism to reservations debate and ignoring all humiliation and torture which lower caste persons have to go through!




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Idle njani123

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Posted: 09 July 2012 at 6:27am | IP Logged
Great Comment! I do even think "Lower caste" people suffer a lot than upper caste people and you are right reservation is only becasue of the casteism in India.
 
I too belong to Upper Caste Brahmin category but I would say even they are humans and should be treated equally.
 
But it is not only limited to India. Not only we Indians practice casteism.
 
If you see white people, they discriminate black and brown people. The Muslims of Middle East do not let  Hindus follow their religion.
 
Women often discriminated for being a girl.
 
The whole world is divided into religion, caste, color, sex, race.
 
So its all people's mentality that needs to be changed and the whole world needs to change.

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Idle Skepblun

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Posted: 09 July 2012 at 6:52am | IP Logged
I know discrimination exists everywhere. But that is no excuse to justify, explain, rationalise or brush aside caste discrimination.

In this case we are discriminating against people of our own country, colour and religion merely on basis of ''caste''.

Also, caste multiplies all problems further. Already we have discrimination against women, the poor and regional bias. Caste only adds to their woes! A woman like Kaushal (in yesterday's episode) has a triple times tougher life being a woman, from poor background and of a lower caste! 

And if she had gone to South, there she'd have faced added humiliation or bias on account of being a ''Northie'' - because we great Indians are not devoid of regional bias either.

Two-three wrongs do not make a right. Nor are they an excuse to feign helplessness and slip into inaction.

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Idle parri814

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Posted: 09 July 2012 at 7:36am | IP Logged
Much needed post Annika.  Thank you!

I also read a lot of comments regarding reservations on all the mediums you mentioned above and was frankly flabbergasted.  

This is a common occurrence amongst majority of people who when shown the mirror, turns round and cries foul.  It becomes a 'pissing' contest of who is the bigger victim and as a result, perspective is lost and focus diverted from the original issue at hand.  All this 'victim' claims by the 'oppressors' just stall transformation and sometimes completely derail progress.

I have to admit, yesterday's episode left me quite distraught and feeling very negative about our existence.  I gues it was an accumulation of all the episodes and I feel very overwhelmed.  As the one gentleman stated, what kind of world are we leaving for our future generations?

This casteism is bullying of the worst kind.  It's consistent, persistent, in every facet of a lower caste's life.  These victims of reservations don't even experience an iota of what the lower's go through. They are so offended and outraged about reservations, imagine how much moupset raged the lowers should be for all the oppression over these thousands of years, over so many generations.

one interesting thing that stood out for me was how the MP was not allowed in the temple, and I asked my husband what if I went to that temple as a tourist, would I be turned away?  How would they know my caste?  Do they turn away the foreigners?  Do they question the Jaath of the foreigners?

Again, thank you.  The ignorants out there, the pervasive mentality of maintaining a regressive status quo, will only serve to keep progress out of reach.






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Idle bewafa

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Posted: 09 July 2012 at 7:55am | IP Logged
Originally posted by parri814

one interesting thing that stood out for me was how the MP was not allowed in the temple, and I asked my husband what if I went to that temple as a tourist, would I be turned away?  How would they know my caste?  Do they turn away the foreigners?  Do they question the Jaath of the foreigners?

Again, thank you.  The ignorants out there, the pervasive mentality of maintaining a regressive status quo, will only serve to keep progress out of reach.


You make a valid point there...LOL bechare pandits of the temple...their mandir is "ashub" without them knowing LOL

AKA it is all bullsh*t! 

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Idle Skepblun

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Posted: 09 July 2012 at 8:19am | IP Logged
Originally posted by parri814

Much needed post Annika.  Thank you!

I also read a lot of comments regarding reservations on all the mediums you mentioned above and was frankly flabbergasted.  

This is a common occurrence amongst majority of people who when shown the mirror, turns round and cries foul.  It becomes a 'pissing' contest of who is the bigger victim and as a result, perspective is lost and focus diverted from the original issue at hand.  All this 'victim' claims by the 'oppressors' just stall transformation and sometimes completely derail progress.

- ABSOLUTELY!!


This casteism is bullying of the worst kind.  It's consistent, persistent, in every facet of a lower caste's life.  These victims of reservations don't even experience an iota of what the lower's go through. They are so offended and outraged about reservations, imagine how much moupset raged the lowers should be for all the oppression over these thousands of years, over so many generations.

- TOTALLY! Why don't they think from the oppressed community's POV? They are angry at just reservations! And exaggerate so-called ''suffering'' in career on account of reservations! As if they would have topped all exams and been at IITs if it was not for reservations! And as if there problems are comparable to oppression Dalits are subjected to from centuries! Angry

one interesting thing that stood out for me was how the MP was not allowed in the temple, and I asked my husband what if I went to that temple as a tourist, would I be turned away?  How would they know my caste?  Do they turn away the foreigners?  Do they question the Jaath of the foreigners?

- DITTO!!!! Would they ask us our castes also if we go there? And what's their criteria to treat foreigners?! Disallowing Dalits or even an MP on basis of caste! Disgusting! Dead

Again, thank you.  The ignorants out there, the pervasive mentality of maintaining a regressive status quo, will only serve to keep progress out of reach.

- Thanks for your response as well. Smile Seeing those foolish comments on social media, SJ website and Youtube made me speak out! How can people be so selfish and think their so-called suffering is similar or perhaps more than what Dalits suffer? And how can they assume whatever that was shown in Satyamev Jayate was ''exaggerated'' or nautanki? Beta you do it! These are your actions caught on camera! Why scared to see your own face, stripped of all make up in the mirror? That is my reply to all those so-called ''general/upper'' castes who think they or their religion was attacked!

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Idle SudhaSangeet

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Posted: 09 July 2012 at 11:34am | IP Logged
I am astonished that how people have reacted to this issue...(needless to say who are offended)
You demand equality and you even want reservations...as if its dhamkaofying like if reservations are not given up, caste system wont stop!!!
The tradition which didnt see its deat in last 3000 years, you feel it will get vanished without any efforts.

When this clause of reservation was introduced in Constitution, an Ultimatum was set up by Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar that if this works within 30 yrs and all will come to level of equality, we will be all happy to scrap up this clause...
But alas it was not achieved, even after 55 years of introduction of Constitution...thanks to all the pundits like one was shown in SMJ and Manusmriti...and all the people who practice this in interiors of India...

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Idle Khushi.

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Posted: 12 July 2012 at 10:13am | IP Logged
I just have one single question , I agree with ALL your points and each and every word you said. Yes! The so called "low caste" people have suffered due to this stupid caste hierarchy in our society and i seriously feel to kick those who divided this world into castes and classes but as a human being and not as an upper caste i have this question that how would an 18 year old intelligent and able kid who is from a lower middle class family but of Brahmin caste feel when her Parents who have sold their chains and gold to get her books and she has studied in a not-so- hi fi school without any tutions when despite of getting a 98% in boards would NOT get admission in any good college and on the other hand an so called "low caste" kid with a 90% would get admission in the same college??!! We cant expect her to feel good about it..can we? She might have had the same resources as that upper caste Brahmin girl. Cant the upper caste people be poor?They can. I have seen soo many..soo many upper caste people who live in very small houses..have very little resources and have almost no income but somehow educate their kids- Like lower caste people do and still they face thsi situation. Yes! They dont undergo the humiliation and that devasting mental torture buthow is that even related to education? You just mentioned how even educated low caste profeSsors have to still hear about their caste? You saw how that IAS resigned from his post because he was facing discrimination!! Did education help him there?? It didnt! I am against teh reservation system..And i say this loudly! The government has itself created this discrimination. They are the people who are ruinign this situation and are just widening the line between low catse and upper caste , widenign the line between Indian humans! The govt. itself makes these OBC ,SC and ST certificates. In the admission list we have two coloumns GEN and OBC/SC,ST. In the cut offs we have the lists which come out in two different coloumns General and OBC,SC/ST..What's this doing? Is it helping teh low caste to get free from the mental torture?Yes , it is providing them with education and a chance to go ahead in life but is the MAIN motive being solved? It is NOT.

I feel that reservations should be there but not on the basis of caste but on the basis of income condition. There must be a reservation for poor kids (low and upper caste poor kids)right from KG1 in all schools and the govt. should pay for the education.When teh kids grow together , they will naturally learn how to respect each other and the whole caste thing should be abolished. The coutry prides itself and says that the old time "caste hierarchy" has now disappeared , if it has then whats this SC ,ST AND OBC tags??? and people favour these??Ha! If this system of reservation on basis of caste continues then nothing will happen , No change will take place! The low castes wills till suffer the torture. You just mentioned about the IAS exam. A general category candidate is allowed 4 chances , the medical requirements are tougher for them and the age limit is 30. For OBC its 7 chances , lesser medical requirements and age limit of 33 and for SC,ST its Unlimited chances , even lesser medical requirements and age limit is 35!! A normal Indian gives the IAS exam only after completing the graduation in college where there is reservation on caste basis.Now the so called low caste people get their right and get educated in good colleges,very good colleges through reservations.. right? Now all the candidates graduate and this includes both upper and lower caste , then this reservation in the IAS exam aswell?? Now they've received the same education then WHY not place the same requirements for all Indian citizens? WHY treat them as special and just widen this mental difference line? Duh! I seriously feel that reservations , if not at the KG level happens like i just said then it should happen at the college level but NOT on teh basis of caste but on the basis of income.
 And you also talked about how people of teh upper caste often point their fingers at teh capability of teh low caste and reason out teh success to be due to reservation then let me give you an example of my life itself- I have a friend. She belongs to a rich household , a house richer then mine. She has bigger car , a bigger house and better clothes AND She is a OBC and i didnt know this until i went through the admission list , Now how did i get to see this OBC tag ? Because she took admission in the OBC qouta! Why> was she deprived? didnt she have resources? didnt she have money to get better tutions and study? She did!! but she used this qouta and MANY people like her use it too and they are termed as the creamy low caste layer.You expect me to like her now? Sorry i dont! This is why i say that this whole system just widens the line of humanity between individuals of India.


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