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reality of Mhatma ... (Page 9)

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Posted: 08 April 2012 at 12:28pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by zorrro

Originally posted by Tannistha

Originally posted by zorrro

Originally posted by Tannistha

I am personally not a big follower of Mahatma Gandhi. He committed a lot of political mistakes, his ideology was a large utopian idea with no practicality, he did nothing to prevent the atrocities of surahbardi and let bengal suffer, he indulged jinnah and  stoked Ego of Nehru, he marginalised subhas bose and forced  him to give up his right ful position as congress president to satisfy Nehru, else things would have different.

As a man he had his failings, and because of the influence he had, his failings have had bigger impacts.
However it is not wise to bring his personal life here according to me. His personal life is rife with controversies and there can be an altogether different topic and i rather not discuss anyones private and personal life.

All said and done, we cannot ignore his contributions , he definitely set a separate and different path. Although now , when i am no longer an innocent school child, i can not say he is the father of the nation.

TO those who say things are not mentioned in school text book, please do not trust them blindly.
Gandhi ji's focus must have been the whole of India and not west Bengal or Paschim Banga. I dont think he had anything against that state.

Tell that to those unfortunate people who were the sufferers and who were promised safety and relief by him . This is how politicians talk.
That is a lame excuse, specially when whole of India was quite stable  compared to bengal and punjab.
edited to add: FYI, Bengal pre partition was not just  paschim banga or west bengal

It is never any use telling anything to people who are in the victimization mode. If the whole of India was stable other than Bengal or Punjab  why lay the blame about their condition on one person, Gandhi? He could have easily chosen to suffer the British atrocities in a more laid back manner  like the unfortunate people you mention. What did he gain anyway? And FYI even pre partition India was much more than what it is now and certainly not confined to one particular state.


I simply refuted your statement about gandhiji's focus.
Did i blame Gandhi for their condition : no. I said he let bengal suffer when he could have stopped surahbardi and its a fact. You can check it yourself.
Did i dispute  his contributions: No
You were the one who mentioned west bengal,saying his focus must have been whole of India, so i had to tell you what you call west bengal was not the Bengal that suffered. The fact that noakhali riot happened, a genocide happened , which he could not do anything to prevent and he visited the place after everything was over and sat for a fast there which did not solve anything: I count that as failure.
he was a great man with great failures. Why is it so hard for you to accept that some people might not view him as the MAHATMA?
 

Some people might oppose your view and to support it they might have posted the view of Nathuram Godse's view, that does not entitle you to mock them and their view in anyway.

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Posted: 08 April 2012 at 12:39pm | IP Logged
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Posted: 08 April 2012 at 12:58pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by zorrro

 
If people have the liberty to mock a man that is revered the world over should I too not have the liberty to mock those who mock Wink LOL
 

Let's get something straight, he didn't mock anyone, he presented his views and the base on which his views are founded. If you don't agree with him, present your counter views. There is no need to 'mock' anyone.

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aanyakunat

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Posted: 08 April 2012 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by zorrro

Awesome. I am impressed.  How about transferring the title of Mahatma from Gandhi to Nathuram Godse for his brave and Mahan act Big smile That should make Gandhi's detractors happier LOL

Where did the idea of conferring 'Mahatma' title for Nathuram Godse come from?

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Posted: 08 April 2012 at 1:14pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by zorrro

It is never any use telling anything to people who are in the victimization mode. If the whole of India was stable other than Bengal or Punjab  why lay the blame about their condition on one person, Gandhi? He could have easily chosen to suffer the British atrocities in a more laid back manner  like the unfortunate people you mention. What did he gain anyway? And FYI even pre partition India was much more than what it is now and certainly not confined to one particular state.


Why is it no use to tell anything to those people who actually were a victim and not just feigning to have been victimised?

If you're asking why Gandhi is to be blamed, let's also ask why he shouldn't be blamed. Gandhi chose to lead the Congress and a movement. He chose to be the person who will negotiate with the Brits and the Muslims. The people of Bengal/ Punjab didn't force him to. Agreed that the people of Bengal/ Punjab are also to be blamed for causing riot, but as a party involved in all the politics, why give a clean chit to Gandhi?

When did anyone say anything about him gaining from the massacres? The question was about his failure as a leader. Some major incident happened which involved mass murder and rape, the self appointed leaders at that time failed to prevent it, therefore they should share the blame. Gandhi happens to be one of those leaders, and so, he should also share the blame. Do you agree to that?

From where have you come to this point about a state vs India? An incident will happen at some place. That place will be situated in some state. Citing that incident doesn't mean that one is only thinking about that state in particular. There might be dozen other incidents spread over dozen other states. What will you say, that they are the problems of each of those individual states? How long will you carry on that way? Till all the states that are there are covered and only then acknowledge that it's a problem that India shared and therefore the leader did fail?

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Pratameshaanyakunat-Doppelganger-Arwen.

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Posted: 08 April 2012 at 1:20pm | IP Logged
I never really understood this .. Why do people say that Gandhi ji could have prevented the hanging of Bhagat Singh Confused? Did he that kind of influence over the Brits or what Confused?



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Posted: 08 April 2012 at 1:31pm | IP Logged
Gandhi Ji was called the father of Nation and a Mahatma because people who followed him believed him to be, and they were not just handful , they were in millions, surely so many could not have been wrong.  His call for a Non-Violent movement appealed to many than the violent measures.  He had his flaws (personal) , as agreed by his grandson himself.  But they are less when compared to his contributions to the Independence Movement.  If he had gone to South Africa to make money and fame he would have done the same after come back instead of being clad in hand woven khadi and leading a comfort free life. 
 
 
Gandhiji and Irwin pact could have saved Bhagat SIngh,  But even if it did would Bhagat SIngh be proud of being pardoned, no, he had requested instead to be blown off as a warrior than being pardoned and he was right.  Gandhi's request to pardon the three heros written on the same day of execution obiviously could not have been of help.  Here I would say Gandhi ji thinking Bhagat SIngh's way of violence could not have brought independence is wrong. There is no one way to attain a goal.  Still he cannot be held responsible for not saving Bhagat SIngh. 
 
 
Along with Gandhi there are many heros who have contributed as a whole for the Independence.  But wihich was more popular and moved the nation as a whole - it was Gandhi's call and hence the credit he gets.  Even Netaji is believed to have said that he was amazed at the command Gandhi had on people and how they obeyed his call for non violent movements.  There are clashes of ideologies among all the freedom fighters ,  and each one has got credit for that.  We know Bhagat SIngh as Shaheed, Subhash Chandra Bose as Netaji, Nehru as chachaji,  Sardar Patel as the Iron Man, Gangadhar Tilak as Lokmanya, Gandhi ji as Mahatma. 
 
I believe everyone deserved the titles given to them.


Edited by kavyasam - 08 April 2012 at 1:32pm

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Posted: 08 April 2012 at 3:19pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by souro

Originally posted by zorrro

Awesome. I am impressed.  How about transferring the title of Mahatma from Gandhi to Nathuram Godse for his brave and Mahan act Big smile That should make Gandhi's detractors happier LOL

Where did the idea of conferring 'Mahatma' title for Nathuram Godse come from?
If Gandhiji has been touted as a womaniser, liar, corrupt politician who willingly let Bhagat Singh ji die...then the person who killed him can be touted as mahatma...going by the same logic...Dead

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