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Anti Quota stir - Join in and support it (Page 6)

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soulsoup

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soulsoup

Joined: 20 January 2006

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Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:26am | IP Logged
Originally posted by X-rebel

Originally posted by soulsoup


But before that let me spell out my perspective on this issue. I believe there is no problem with the Quota System for a country like India but there is a huge problem with the execution.  Don't get me wrong here I do believe in meritocracy but only when you start from the same line. Have you spend time with any real 'tribes' I did. And trust me they need an extra push. But alas all this quota system are popping from bad intend of increasing vote bank to start with and executed very wrongly as you pointed out.

Also why blame the politicians for everything? Look at today's political environment how many of educated young people you can find there? This is not the only burning issue there are many more! You are raising your flag here because this directly affects you! But ever thought of the future of this utter de-politicalization of today's youth! If every educated level headed person with a good heart and mind treat politics as a bad word to be associated with  and get as far as possible from politics the nature will fill the vacuum with garbage isn't it obvious?




Yes Anol i know abt the tribes,  but dont u hink they will benifit more if the reservations are on the basis of economic status.

About politicians, when educated leaders like Kapil Sibal oppose it, they are threatened to lose their job.


Who will implement that Amogh? Same politician, same bureaucracy, same red tape. Nothing will happen there too only some officials will get an extra chance to grab some more avenues of bribe!


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X-rebel

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X-rebel

Joined: 31 January 2006

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Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:30am | IP Logged
Originally posted by soulsoup

Originally posted by X-rebel

Originally posted by soulsoup


But before that let me spell out my perspective on this issue. I believe there is no problem with the Quota System for a country like India but there is a huge problem with the execution.  Don't get me wrong here I do believe in meritocracy but only when you start from the same line. Have you spend time with any real 'tribes' I did. And trust me they need an extra push. But alas all this quota system are popping from bad intend of increasing vote bank to start with and executed very wrongly as you pointed out.

Also why blame the politicians for everything? Look at today's political environment how many of educated young people you can find there? This is not the only burning issue there are many more! You are raising your flag here because this directly affects you! But ever thought of the future of this utter de-politicalization of today's youth! If every educated level headed person with a good heart and mind treat politics as a bad word to be associated with  and get as far as possible from politics the nature will fill the vacuum with garbage isn't it obvious?




Yes Anol i know abt the tribes,  but dont u hink they will benifit more if the reservations are on the basis of economic status.

About politicians, when educated leaders like Kapil Sibal oppose it, they are threatened to lose their job.


Who will implement that Amogh? Same politician, same bureaucracy, same red tape. Nothing will happen there too only some officials will get an extra chance to grab some more avenues of bribe!




Thats the tragedy here. But atleast we can stop them from further dividing the country by opposing them.

The reservations on economic basis shud be implemented at grassroot level. And its we and the media who should be alert that they are being implemented correctly.

X-rebel

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X-rebel

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Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:36am | IP Logged
Its conformed that a student named Subhas of AIIMS had died in the hunger strike.

The media is not covering the event. Angry Angry

insouciance

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insouciance

Joined: 10 January 2006

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Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:37am | IP Logged
               The truth is, the government is not doing the backward classes and tribes a favour by reserving seats for them......The government has increased the reservations in the IIT's to a whopping 49%..now passing the JEE exam is a helluva task...


              Students start preparing from the 8th grade, work day in and day out for like 15-16 hours everyday, shun all sorts of entertainment like music, television movies etc and work work work work work to get a rank...in short, they dont have a life and love not to have one Dead ..and such students(albeit not super genius yet too hard working...most of the IIT-ans are all spoon fed at the coaching institutions at kota, hyderabad, delhi etc and the JEE exam becomes a cliche for them...not all are the creme of the students....its all hard work....seen my brother do that Dead Dead ) can cope up with the pressures inside the IIT's....


              My brother is an IIT allumni and he has told me stories about people dropping out of IIT as they cannot cope up.......most of these drop outs being SC/ST's....they are delivered everything on a platter....all that the SC/ST's need to do is sit through 6 hours of torture called the JEE exam, just attempt the paper and guess answers, bingo Tongue , they are selected Tongue .....


             They are not competent enough,thus they cannot cope up, get traumatized inside the IIt's as there's no quota system or grace marks once you enter IIT, they dont understand a thing, and dont survive long...and those who come out act as though they are electrocuted or they have endured 4 years of excruciating suffering and turn out to bee zoombiesCry ......again, i'm not saying that ALl SC/ST's are drop outs but the majority of the drop outs are those who enter by fluke/quota system........


              If the government REALLY wants to help the backward classes, they have to start work in the grassroot levels.....first comes primary education...hell, see to it that every SC/ST goes to a goodgood primary school..then comes secondary education...first see to it that these SC/St's complete the schooling and pass out with flying colours(or at least pass the CBCE board exam with 50+ marks)...then make them competent enough to take exams such as the AIMS, IIT-JEE etc...that would help them in the longer run Big smile

just my views Embarrassed

sowmyaa

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sowmyaa

Joined: 23 August 2004

Posts: 3658

Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by soulsoup


Originally posted by sowmyaa

Originally posted by soulsoup




But before that let me spell out my perspective on this
issue. I believe there is no problem with the Quota System for a country like India but there is a huge problem with the execution.Don't get me wrong here "I do believe in meritocracy but only when you start from the same line. Have you spend time with any real 'tribes' I did. And trust me they need an extra push. But alas all this quota system are popping from bad intend of increasing vote bank to start with and executed very wrongly as you pointed out.

There is nothing wrong with giving them extra push. But not on this level. Give them push on basic level. Give support on elementry level in school level, but certain NOT on higher education, or on getting jobs. Give extra push on "economic" basis but certainly NOT here.


<p>Again aren't your words are
flavored with urban snobbishness? Why only at elementary level?
That's the basic I agree, without providing the basics working on
only at top of the pyramid of life is dangerous -I know that too! But
trust me you need push from every level. Why? Let me ask you how
many son/daughter of a street vendor you've seen doing great in their
life? This change requires decades and generation. But without proper
execution and most importantly the intension NOTHING going to
work -that's for sure.
<p>



urban snobishness! then what would you call what abhijeet shukla wrote on page 4 of this thread. middle class students from low economic background suffer? don't "they" need "any" kind of push? if you work on your basic pillar of education and give them education in elementry level they can "prove" their intellectual. they can themselve apply to thse instituation if they are capable enough!! that's why i insisted on basic level. Talking about son/daugher of street vendor doing good question. so if you think that this system is working you please tell me why are they still not making great? and you think that not allowing them to be in IIM is the "only" reason they are not doing great? I don't agree here. I as average student cannot go in higher institutes 'coz I am not competent enough, but certain class can go 'coz they are from diff. class? this is partiality. and someone who is bright and intellegent from middle class have to go to ordinary college 'coz they are form middle class but these other class student gets to this college NOT because they are bright, NOT becuase they passed the test, NOT because they are intellgetn enough just 'coz they are from some other class. if they can reach till this level they should be treated on basis of intellectual level. Just imagine all the engineer, docs, that come our of college and do you imagine if they don't know their field or subject how good they will treat us??

X-rebel

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Posts: 4694

Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:46am | IP Logged
Arent there poor students among the upper classes. Do all the rich belong to the upper classes? Instead of reserving seats for the OBCs.

I am im touch with the Youth For Equality and willl post the latest updated here.

soulsoup

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soulsoup

Joined: 20 January 2006

Posts: 3490

Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:47am | IP Logged
Originally posted by sowmyaa

Originally posted by soulsoup


Originally posted by sowmyaa

Originally posted by soulsoup




But before that let me spell out my perspective on this
issue. I believe there is no problem with the Quota System for a country like India but there is a huge problem with the execution. Don't get me wrong here "I do believe in meritocracy but only when you start from the same line. Have you spend time with any real 'tribes' I did. And trust me they need an extra push. But alas all this quota system are popping from bad intend of increasing vote bank to start with and executed very wrongly as you pointed out.

There is nothing wrong with giving them extra push. But not on this level. Give them push on basic level. Give support on elementry level in school level, but certain NOT on higher education, or on getting jobs. Give extra push on "economic" basis but certainly NOT here.


Again aren't your words are
flavored with urban snobbishness? Why only at elementary level?
That's the basic I agree, without providing the basics working on
only at top of the pyramid of life is dangerous -I know that too! But
trust me you need push from every level. Why? Let me ask you how
many son/daughter of a street vendor you've seen doing great in their
life? This change requires decades and generation. But without proper
execution and most importantly the intension NOTHING going to
work -that's for sure.



urban snobishness! then what would you call what abhijeet shukla wrote on page 4 of this thread. middle class students from low economic background suffer? don't "they" need "any" kind of push? if you work on your basic pillar of education and give them education in elementry level they can "prove" their intellectual. they can themselve apply to thse instituation if they are capable enough!! that's why i insisted on basic level. Talking about son/daugher of street vendor doing good question. so if you think that this system is working you please tell me why are they still not making great? and you think that not allowing them to be in IIM is the "only" reason they are not doing great? I don't agree here. I as average student cannot go in higher institutes 'coz I am not competent enough, but certain class can go 'coz they are from diff. class? this is partiality. and someone who is bright and intellegent from middle class have to go to ordinary college 'coz they are form middle class but these other class student gets to this college NOT because they are bright, NOT becuase they passed the test, NOT because they are intellgetn enough just 'coz they are from some other class. if they can reach till this level they should be treated on basis of intellectual level. Just imagine all the engineer, docs, that come our of college and do you imagine if they don't know their field or subject how good they will treat us??


sowmyaa - you got my view totally wrong here!! I never said the system is working! It can't work - because to start with it never meant to be! It's just a politically motivated propaganda machine for the !@#$%

Also I am totally support meritocracy - I stated that before! But my experience of working with a particular tribe - near Santhal Paragana Bihar - tells me that these guys need a BIG push to come out of the vicious cycle carried forward by generation after generation!

I am from an Urban middle class family - so I know the pain there too!

Amogh: Atleast say a thank You to me - this post is going great in this section Smile. Not only 'I agree' type post - some great conversation!



soulsoup

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soulsoup

Joined: 20 January 2006

Posts: 3490

Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:49am | IP Logged
Originally posted by X-rebel

Arent there poor students among the upper classes. Do all the rich belong to the upper classes? Instead of reserving seats for the OBCs.

I am im touch with the Youth For Equality and willl post the latest updated here.


Totally agree here Amogh - see what happened in Communist revolution in Bihar or Andhra - class politics turned into caste politics!!

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