Mythological Masti

   

Prahlad's teachings against the practice of 'SATI' (Page 2)

Post Reply New Post

Page 2 of 2

Page 1
Page   of 2

ShivangBuch

Goldie

ShivangBuch

Joined: 31 August 2009

Posts: 1045

Posted: 05 March 2012 at 8:09am | IP Logged
Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath

I'm just replying separately since all those colors are confusing me.LOL

I do agree with what you're saying, and I definitely acknowledge that romance is not the only element in Ram-Sita or Radha-Krishna relationship, but I still categorize those relationships differently from Ram-Lakshman or Ram-Hanuman, simply because one treats their brother or friend differently from their wife or husband...one relationship is not greater than the other, and Ram gave importance to all the relationships in his life, but he also treated his wife different from his brother, his brother different from his father or mother, etc. While it is true that Ram and Krishna are incarnations of Vishnu, they were human incarnations and therefore felt human emotions while on Earth. I think of Vishnu differently from Ram, because Ram felt all the human emotions as per his avatar whereas Vishnu is beyond comprehension and he doesn't feel emotions like a human. So while I also give equal importance to the devotion between Ram and Sita, Radha Krishna just as much as romantic love, I feel that Ram's devotion to Sita portrayed through his attempting to massage her legs is not against the customs of Treta Yug.

Also, Ram did not stick to all customs, especially those which were wrong. He ate the berries of Shabari though she belonged to the lower class, whereas others avoided her and even insulted her. The customs of Treta Yug were to elevate the higher classes and stay away from the lower classes, and Ram showed everyone how wrong that was by giving respect to Shabari. So if it was a custom of Treta Yug to say that husbands should never massage their wives even when they are in pain, I don't think Ram would have agreed with it, so that scene from ASR is not unbelievable to me.

Moreover, I don't think any of us will ever know what the customs of Treta Yug or Dwapar Yug really were, except for the major ones written in the scriptures, so when it comes to things like, did husbands ever press their wives' legs or backs when they were in pain, it is such a small thing that we won't really know, so as long as the characters of Ram and Krishna are kept intact when showing such scenes, I wouldn't make deal out of it. I know you consider that to be out of the character of Ram in that scene from ASR, but I didn't so in this we should just agree to disagree.SmileLOL

Btw, you mentioned about Lakshman being in pain and Ram putting his hand on his head...if Lakshman ever was in pain, I think Ram would do anything to make him feel better, same with Hanuman, Bharat, Sugreev, or his other devotees and brothers. Ram was not that high and mighty to expect others to serve him and not return the service when his devotees are in pain. Just like he ate the half-bitten fruits of Shabari, I feel that Ram would not have hesitated to serve any of his brothers, friends, and devotees if they were in pain and came to him for comfort. Putting his hand on his devotees' head is more to assuage mental pain, not really physical...if his devotees were in physical pain, I believe that the Ramji I believe in and pray to would have served them like a devotee himself. That's how I define the statement 'God is a servant of his devotees'.

It's true that God's touch is enough to rid people of both mental and physical pain, but taking it in the sense that Ram was born a human and kept within the limitations of a human life, he would not have performed miracles like Krishna by touching people's heads and ridding them of physical pain. At least, this is what I believe.Smile
Definitely agree to disagree. That scene is just silly and unwanted for me and will remain silly howsoever rigid you may be despite my arguing attemptsLOL. I will be equally rigid.LOL And Ram would have been ready to massage the legs of Lakshman or Hanuman even. 100% agree. But he wouldn't have done it probably because he wouldn't have made their devotees feel ashamed. Fine enough that Ram didn't actually do it here also and just offered to do it. But still it looked too much artificial and fictitious that's it. And Treta customs we can't know but we know about orthodox families where husband-wife maintain maryada in the presence of elders. That can very much be connected with old eras easily. It is very much evident from Ram's behaviour in Pushpvatika and in Swayamvar. Very controlled. And there is nothing right or wrong about this custom. It has its own sweetness. Probably when alone, their freedom can be different which is shown in the scene but still it doesn't seem to be real. Let's see what others opine. Semanti has read the entire epic from 3 sources. Let's see how she sees to this. And of course Ram was human so what? Why can't he heal through physical touch? Even people today can do it through that therapy. Ram was master of it with born natural gift due to his divine origin which he was also being modest about. Ahalya and Sugreev are the classic examples and so as the monkey army after war. He just had to touch to remove all the pains and show all the care and love. And love can be communicated through the eyes even. Even that action of attempt of massaging the feet was enough. No such debate between Ram-Sita in the form of dialog was required. Lola's favourite scene of Vasudev comforting Devaki is the classic example of it. And Ram treated all relations with equality I feel. For him all were his sakhas. Dashrath also, Sita also and Hanuman also. Just that other person had different bhav and he had to respond accordingly like in that scene he was stopped by Sita and like Hanuman says "Let me be at your feet only O master." In short gesture of Ram is all fine. But the following dialog and debate looks ordinary as if we are not watching a mytho but a social drama. At that place and from those characters, it doesn't look as natural and relevant as Dashrath-Kaushalya or Dashrath-Janak discussions about how daughter in law should be treated in the husband's house.

Definitely enjoying. Me too.Big smile Hug But missing you on personal chat. We just can't manage at the same time.


Edited by ShivangBuch - 05 March 2012 at 8:18am

Dear Guest, Being an unregistered member you are missing out on participating in the lively discussions happening on the topic "Prahlad's teachings against the practice of 'SATI' (Page 2)" in Mythological Masti forum. In addition you lose out on the fun interactions with fellow members and other member exclusive features that India-Forums has to offer. Join India's most popular discussion portal on Indian Entertainment. It's FREE and registration is effortless so JOIN NOW!

..RamKiJanaki..

IF-Stunnerz

..RamKiJanaki..

Joined: 20 August 2008

Posts: 44270

Posted: 05 March 2012 at 1:26pm | IP Logged
^^ Yup, agree with you on most of those points. About knowing treta yug customs through orthodox families, I agree and disagree, because the history of India shows us how we've adopted the customs of the persians through the mughal rulers who ruled India for so long and forced their practices on the common public. Many of the customs and traditions people have adopted now are not originally there in the Hindu scriptures, because they came from other groups around the world...not only the Mughals but also the British and other foreign groups who ruled India after the Rajput Kings. So I don't think all the customs of the orthodox families were originally there in the dwapar yuga and treta yuga, which is why I'm saying we'll never really know 100% what the customs were during the yugas before kali yuga. In fact, we don't even know the customs of the earlier kali yuga, which was actually very similar to the end of the dwapar yuga.
 
And I agree that Ram putting his hand on his devotees' heads must have a heeling effect as he still is God though an avatar, but just that the other services he could have offered would have been equally sweet and loving. I just don't think he'd have limited his love to his family, friends, and devotees to just one gesture.
 
Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that scene as we could go on forever debating it.LOL

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

ShivangBuch

ShivangBuch

Goldie

ShivangBuch

Joined: 31 August 2009

Posts: 1045

Posted: 05 March 2012 at 9:24pm | IP Logged
^^^^Agree. Not all the cultures (like paradanashin, not talking directly to elders) but I just gave the example from RCM. And anyway, the point is that the dialog wasn't required. Simply the gesture even was enough. The message would have been conveyed. Even if the portrayal was not wrong (I have never been that strong on that part of the argument) but was NOT NEEDED and was ARTIFICIAL LOOKING and therefore not very good looking. At least you can agree that Vasudev Devaki scene of the same message was better being without any dialog than this one with unnecessary topic discussion from a divine couple (Dialogs created from a big influencing character of Ramji - and not in a Fanfic creation but a compilation of authentic sources).

Edited by ShivangBuch - 05 March 2012 at 9:26pm

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

..RamKiJanaki..

..RamKiJanaki..

IF-Stunnerz

..RamKiJanaki..

Joined: 20 August 2008

Posts: 44270

Posted: 06 March 2012 at 5:31am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ShivangBuch

^^^^Agree. Not all the cultures (like paradanashin, not talking directly to elders) but I just gave the example from RCM. And anyway, the point is that the dialog wasn't required. Simply the gesture even was enough. The message would have been conveyed. Even if the portrayal was not wrong (I have never been that strong on that part of the argument) but was NOT NEEDED and was ARTIFICIAL LOOKING and therefore not very good looking. At least you can agree that Vasudev Devaki scene of the same message was better being without any dialog than this one with unnecessary topic discussion from a divine couple (Dialogs created from a big influencing character of Ramji - and not in a Fanfic creation but a compilation of authentic sources).


Yes, I agree that the VD scene from SK was conveyed better than this one from ASR...it is often said that actions convey more than words, and instances where either the husband or wife is suffering and the other comforts them through actions like hugging, stroking their head, or letting them place their head on their lap (like in VD's case), is often more comforting than saying things like "It will be alright" or "Everything's going to be fine" etc.Smile

In general, ASR had more dialogue than was necessary sometimes...and I thought about this when watching the show and thought that maybe it was because today's audience doesn't understand some gestures...people today talk more than they shouldLOL and they call some of the gestures onscreen, like eyelocks or whatnot, boring without any dialogue. Again, the creatives of ASR probably catered to these interests, and the dialogues of some of those scenes weren't really bad...they just further explained the scene when it was not really needed.

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

ShivangBuch

ShivangBuch

Goldie

ShivangBuch

Joined: 31 August 2009

Posts: 1045

Posted: 06 March 2012 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath


Yes, I agree that the VD scene from SK was conveyed better than this one from ASR...it is often said that actions convey more than words, and instances where either the husband or wife is suffering and the other comforts them through actions like hugging, stroking their head, or letting them place their head on their lap (like in VD's case), is often more comforting than saying things like "It will be alright" or "Everything's going to be fine" etc.Smile

In general, ASR had more dialogue than was necessary sometimes...and I thought about this when watching the show and thought that maybe it was because today's audience doesn't understand some gestures...people today talk more than they shouldLOL and they call some of the gestures onscreen, like eyelocks or whatnot, boring without any dialogue. Again, the creatives of ASR probably catered to these interests, and the dialogues of some of those scenes weren't really bad...they just further explained the scene when it was not really needed.
Now I think we have enough fun he he. Now we will come back to 'Sati' or we can allow others to agree or disagree on our points of the other topic generated from it. Lol. Yes today's audience needs lot of explanation and pampering may be to keep them interested towards true good lessons of life. I still think fictional characters are better in that with which one can better identify oneself and also wouldn't find strange about an event or dialog to have actually happened in Treta. Unwanted dialogs may have been just to elaborate the message a bit further fine. Question is whether this message itself first of all was required to be given through Ramayan? Anyway. I was just specific to this scene and not in general how ASR has been directed because I haven't watched it for more than a few scattered episodes. Just like for BRC MB examples also where I was specific about the scenes I mentioned and not general because in general I believe that BRC & Dr Raza have grabbed and shown the essence of Geeta too good in dialogs and characterization of Krishna. Just excellent!!


Edited by ShivangBuch - 06 March 2012 at 10:43pm

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

..RamKiJanaki..

..RamKiJanaki..

IF-Stunnerz

..RamKiJanaki..

Joined: 20 August 2008

Posts: 44270

Posted: 07 March 2012 at 6:09am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ShivangBuch

Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath


Yes, I agree that the VD scene from SK was conveyed better than this one from ASR...it is often said that actions convey more than words, and instances where either the husband or wife is suffering and the other comforts them through actions like hugging, stroking their head, or letting them place their head on their lap (like in VD's case), is often more comforting than saying things like "It will be alright" or "Everything's going to be fine" etc.Smile

In general, ASR had more dialogue than was necessary sometimes...and I thought about this when watching the show and thought that maybe it was because today's audience doesn't understand some gestures...people today talk more than they shouldLOL and they call some of the gestures onscreen, like eyelocks or whatnot, boring without any dialogue. Again, the creatives of ASR probably catered to these interests, and the dialogues of some of those scenes weren't really bad...they just further explained the scene when it was not really needed.
Now I think we have enough fun he he. Now we will come back to 'Sati' or we can allow others to agree or disagree on our points of the other topic generated from it. Lol. Yes today's audience needs lot of explanation and pampering may be to keep them interested towards true good lessons of life. I still think fictional characters are better in that with which one can better identify oneself and also wouldn't find strange about an event or dialog to have actually happened in Treta. Unwanted dialogs may have been just to elaborate the message a bit further fine. Question is whether this message itself first of all was required to be given through Ramayan? Anyway. I was just specific to this scene and not in general how ASR has been directed because I haven't watched it for more than a few scattered episodes. Just like for BRC MB examples also where I was specific about the scenes I mentioned and not general because in general I believe that BRC & Dr Raza have grabbed and shown the essence of Geeta too good in dialogs and characterization of Krishna. Just excellent!!
 
No, you're right. ASR did not show too many contemporary messages except the equality of man and woman, husband and wife, etc but other than that they stuck to actual Ramayan most of the time. A mythological show which did show waaay too much contemporary messages is BRC's Vishnu Puraan, which I'm watching right now with my family.
 
BRC did well with Mahabharat, but I believe his other shows like Ramayan (which I watced a few episodes before being discouraged from continuing) and Vishnu Puraan were not directed well. In Vishnu Puraan, they incorporate a contemporary message into every single one of Vishnu's avatars, and this serial is the one for which I created that father topic, when Lakshmi blatantly said a father's love is less to a mother's. So Vishnu Puraan was majoriy flawed, not only in direction, but also the amount of fiction it showed and how it interweaved so many contemporary messages that were inapplicable to those yugas.
 
Just yesterday, I was watching older Prahlad, who is now King, giving a bhashaan (did I say that right?) about female infanticide and how it's so prevalent and how it's a sin...yes, I agree that killing newborn girls is a sin, but was that prevalent in the satya yuga, which was supposed to be completely sinless?Shocked  That's a social message which shows today, like TMKOC and Chidiya Ghar like you said, should display, because it's an issue prevalent today and not back in the satya yuga.
 
So I do understand where you're coming from, and had ASR showed contemporary social messages like that, of female infanticide and all, I too wouldn't have liked those scenes since such problems did not exist back then, but to an extent, I do not mind some scenes advocating husband wife equality.

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

ShivangBuch

ShivangBuch

Goldie

ShivangBuch

Joined: 31 August 2009

Posts: 1045

Posted: 07 March 2012 at 8:53am | IP Logged
Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath

 
No, you're right. ASR did not show too many contemporary messages except the equality of man and woman, husband and wife, etc but other than that they stuck to actual Ramayan most of the time. A mythological show which did show waaay too much contemporary messages is BRC's Vishnu Puraan, which I'm watching right now with my family.
 
BRC did well with Mahabharat, but I believe his other shows like Ramayan (which I watced a few episodes before being discouraged from continuing) and Vishnu Puraan were not directed well. In Vishnu Puraan, they incorporate a contemporary message into every single one of Vishnu's avatars, and this serial is the one for which I created that father topic, when Lakshmi blatantly said a father's love is less to a mother's. So Vishnu Puraan was majoriy flawed, not only in direction, but also the amount of fiction it showed and how it interweaved so many contemporary messages that were inapplicable to those yugas.
 
Just yesterday, I was watching older Prahlad, who is now King, giving a bhashaan (did I say that right?) about female infanticide and how it's so prevalent and how it's a sin...yes, I agree that killing newborn girls is a sin, but was that prevalent in the satya yuga, which was supposed to be completely sinless?Shocked  That's a social message which shows today, like TMKOC and Chidiya Ghar like you said, should display, because it's an issue prevalent today and not back in the satya yuga.
 
So I do understand where you're coming from, and had ASR showed contemporary social messages like that, of female infanticide and all, I too wouldn't have liked those scenes since such problems did not exist back then, but to an extent, I do not mind some scenes advocating husband wife equality.

Yes. Absolutely. Giving contemporary messages in one or two scenes against giving them every now and then is different. Yes you got my intention and meaning. One more example I can give is that of Krishna waiting for Rukmi and Rukmi attending the marriage of Rukmini in DBSK, Devar Bhabhi pranks between Krishna-Revati in DBSK. Such scenes simply don't give the feel of divine show but a social drama. Man-woman equality message is fine but it is picturised by people in such a way that it gets mixed up between the equality of honour vs equality of functional duties and roles. It is picturized as if being house wife is inferior in respect and status than being a working woman and men do injustice with women by not giving them respect assigning for them inferior duties. Man-woman equality is in the respect of men and women in the society and not in what they do or can do or should do as their duties or their right to any profession. It is simply in the honour (equal pride on daughter and happiness to have a daughter, giving equal education to them and feeling greatness of motherhood) rather than diverted focus on "Women can work in any profession in which men can work" kind of indirect promotion for promoting equal education. And Ramayan gives that message of respect and equality naturally within its story itself (Self respect of man is wonderfully portrayed in Ram Ravan Battle and Agnipariksha scene of ASR itself and self respect of woman in Bhoomi pravesh scene of ASR itself apart from the former scene).


Edited by ShivangBuch - 08 March 2012 at 9:46am

Post Reply New Post

Go to top

Related Topics

  Topics Topic Starter Replies Views Last Post
Mouni Roy to play Sati in Star Plus's new mytho !!

2 3 4

...Mina... 27 2180 06 September 2011 at 8:35am
By -Gitanjali-

Forum Quick Jump

Forum Category

Active Forums

Mythological Masti Topic Index

Limit search to this Forum only.

 

Disclaimer: All Logos and Pictures of various Channels, Shows, Artistes, Media Houses, Companies, Brands etc. belong to their respective owners, and are used to merely visually identify the Channels, Shows, Companies, Brands, etc. to the viewer. Incase of any issue please contact the webmaster.