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MYSTICAL Masti instead of Mythological Masti (Page 2)

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vedantka

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vedantka

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Posted: 20 January 2012 at 12:50am | IP Logged


Quote:

 We all here are full of pride about our HISTORICAL stories and would now be very serious about the point you have drawn our attention to for which we were casual and now very very thankful to you. But that was more the peaceful nature of Hindu rather than casual. The heritage should be preserved by us from generations to generations. that is our duty without doubt and we accept it. That's one aspect of looking at it. And the absolute TRUTH is never going to die and needs no evidence or justification. That is also another aspect of it and way of looking at it.
[/QUOTE]

Dear ShivangBuch,

a peaceful nature does not have to mean that you accept any nonsense introduced by Westerners/foreigners.
You don't have to please them by accepting their incorrect ideas.
You don't have to correct them either, let them think whatever they want to think so you do not go into any confrontation unnecessarily but you should stick to the proper terminology regarding your scriptures for your own dignity and for the sake of truth.

I know that Vedas are eternal breath of God so there is no way they can vanish from human culture.
But I believe that we also have to make an effort to preserve it properly and not leave everything to God.  Otherwise, your peacefulness will be used and is already used by those who want to mock Hinduism. Remember that there is a destiny but there is also free will, they both are very interconnected. My guru says that your tomorrow is your yesterday modified by today. So nothing is 100% written in stone, many things can be changed at least a bit.

I'd never like that something dear to me is ridiculed and for sure I'd never participate in it by accepting and using terms that are very unjust to Divine Scriptures.

I know this is not your intention but who can read your minds?

We are not God so we judge others by their words and actions (and not by their unspoken intentions) so the ones who don't like Vedic Sanatan Dharm simply enjoy your naivety.

Even Wikipedia uses this term, it is used everywhere on internet for Hindu historical events.
And absolutely no one bothers to correct it .
It looks outwardly that India accepted Western opinion/judgement about your scriptures.

You can correct it in a very peaceful and graceful way, it will take time for sure but eventually the results will show up and I'm 100% sure , you will enjoy it and it will make you more peaceful and more dignified.

You simply make an effort and leave the results to Krishn.

Jai Shree Krishn!



Edited by vedantka - 20 January 2012 at 1:13am

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ShivangBuch

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ShivangBuch

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Posted: 20 January 2012 at 4:21am | IP Logged
Originally posted by vedantka


Dear ShivangBuch,
Just call me Shivang or Dear Shivang and address me like you may be addressing your child.

a peaceful nature does not have to mean that you accept any nonsense introduced by Westerners/foreigners.
You don't have to please them by accepting their incorrect ideas.
You don't have to correct them either, let them think whatever they want to think so you do not go into any confrontation unnecessarily but you should stick to the proper terminology regarding your scriptures
for your own dignity and for the sake of truth.
Agreed. By peaceful nature I mean not careless but happy with own faith and devotion. What you say is correct. I was just expressing or describing Hindu nature in general by that word and was not just justifying the action of any particular member or group of members here by that word. That peaceful nature may extend further to avoid war like Yudhishthir was avoiding even when the attack was there on his dignity. That is where awakening call of Krishna was there for him to fight for the right but that doesn't mean his peaceful nature until then was wrong. Hindus are also committed to fight for their dignity when they realize the threat which probably was not known here and not interpreted in this manner literally in that word 'Mythology' due to its origin unknown.


I know that Vedas are eternal breath of God so there is no way they can vanish from human culture.
But I believe that we also have to make an effort to preserve it properly and not leave everything to God.  Otherwise, your peacefulness will be used and is already used by those who want to mock Hinduism. Remember that there is a destiny but there is also free will, they both are very interconnected. My guru says that your tomorrow is your yesterday modified by today. So nothing is 100% written in stone, many things can be changed at least a bit.

I'd never like that something dear to me is ridiculed and for sure I'd never participate in it by accepting and using terms that are very unjust to Divine Scriptures.

I know this is not your intention but who can read your minds?

We are not God so we judge others by their words and actions (and not by their unspoken intentions) so the ones who don't like Vedic Sanatan Dharm simply enjoy your naivety.

The discussions which take place in this forum, the contents here if you notice will assure you that members here try to take all the care to feel the grace of being an instrument for that motive of spreading God's name and Hinduism's richness. It's just the title which you may say is disturbing to the mind and pleasing the outsiders who want to criticize Hinduism. But even with the name 'Mythological Masti' given to the forum, if they search and see it on the internet and enter, they will see all the contents in all the threads which will disappoint them. I am sure there will hardly be any single post in this forum raising doubts on the existence of Ram/Krishna or doubting the reality of Ramayan or Mahabharat. Not a single member in the forum you will find probably who doesn't strongly believe in the reality of Ram/Krishna. They are careless probably because they are comfortable with own faith and own closed home of religion and it doesn't matter what others unfortunate believe about it. And also I don't think people even intend to mean the literal meaning of the word 'Mythological'. They have just accepted that word because different Purans describe different forms of God to be Supreme and are contradicting. But they always use the word EPIC for stories of human incarnations of God (Even if stories of Ram/Krishna are also there in Vishnu Puran, Bhagwat Puran, Brahm Vaivart Puran, Padma Puran etc.) They really don't mean what the word means. And their unspoken intentions can't be misinterpreted by outsider as I said eventually (Only on the face of it) because the outsider is also going to see the inside contents and the insider contents of the forum explicitly and confidently speak high about faith on the history of events with full dignity. And myths can be characters and events but not the theory of formless Supreme. Hinduism also accepts that and excels in that as well.

Even Wikipedia uses this term, it is used everywhere on internet for Hindu historical events.
And absolutely no one bothers to correct it .
It looks outwardly that India accepted Western opinion/judgement about your scriptures.

You can correct it in a very peaceful and graceful way, it will take time for sure but eventually the results will show up and I'm 100% sure , you will enjoy it and it will make you more peaceful and more dignified.
As I said, I am with you and will always be very conscious and careful not to use this word again in public discussions. If it becomes necessary reference to explain to others my point, I will try to use the Hindi word PURAN now onwards.

You simply make an effort and leave the results to Krishn.
Only additional point in this line is that effort shouldn't be avoided out of laziness and effort should only be made as a naturally realized duty when felt from within or made felt by someone inside.

Jai Shree Krishn!
Jai Shree Krishn!


Edited by ShivangBuch - 20 January 2012 at 4:59am

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Posted: 20 January 2012 at 5:23am | IP Logged
@Vedantka,
 
Believe me, I know a great deal about many of the atrocities that western missionaries committed in India, dear, and it makes my blood boil to no end, but at the same time I leave their karma to them. They will receive the fruits of their ignorance and sins soon, so why should we interfere?
 
But at the same time, I also agree that we should preserve our religion for future generations like Shivang said, but I do that more by spreading the stories of the puranas than changing the title 'mythological', but even you have made a correct point that the term 'mythological' is still offensive a term to describe the stories of Hindu scriptures.
 
But more than Mystical Masti, I think we should choose a title that makes it easy to find for people who use google and other search engines, to let them know that they are entering a forum for Hindu scriptures, something that also has a ring like 'Mythological Masti'.
 
I think we should ask Lola, our viewbie, if it is possible to change the title of our forum, and if so, to what?

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vedantka

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vedantka

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Posted: 20 January 2012 at 8:23am | IP Logged
Dear Shivang,


Quote;

 They have just accepted that word because different Purans describe different forms of God to be Supreme and are contradicting. But they always use the word EPIC for stories of human incarnations of God (Even if stories of Ram/Krishna are also there in Vishnu Puran, Bhagwat Puran, Brahm Vaivart Puran, Padma Puran etc.)
end of Quote

That's the magic of accepting a genuine guru that is the one who is God realized (a saint)  and who has absolute/complete knowledge of Vedic scriptures. He will reconcile all apparent contradictions in a manner that will leave no doubt to you. He will grace you will clarity and understanding that Vedas are Divine, written in a divine (coded , with multiple meanings depending on the context) language so it can be correctly interpreted ONLY by a Divine personality (that is by someone who has divine mind, our minds are mayic).

Our minds are limited (mayic/material) so they are bound to make mistakes, even the greatest Vedic scholars will make mistakes in their interpretations because how can limited understand unlimited? You cannot fill the little basket (our mind) with the ocean.

Unfortunately there are only few genuine gurus in India.


You guys may start even with correcting your own profiles where as interest you write "mythological stories? NO! mystical stories of puranas" or something like that.



Jai Shree Krishn!


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AishuHiBawari

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Posted: 20 January 2012 at 9:03am | IP Logged
The word "mythological" is not used literally here. We are using the word only because it relates to the hindu tv shows that we discuss here.

If you google "puraanic shows" or any variation of that, you get things like bhakti websites and links to online versions of the puraanas.
If you google "mystical shows" you get magic acts. And apparently, there is a band name "Mystical," so you would find videos of that band performing instead of what you want.
If you google "hindu shows," then you will find the bhakti shows which preach hinduism, but not things like Ramayan, Mahabharat, etc.

We only use the word because then it is easy for fans of the hindu shows to find us. The word mythological has been used for shows like this for so long, that we can't refer to them as anything else. Even the indian press, all the viewers, and bhakts use that word. I don't think it offends anyone.

And as for the westerners, the name of this forum is not going to change their view regarding Hinduism.

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varaali

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Posted: 20 January 2012 at 10:07am | IP Logged
What is even remotely "mystic" about our scriptures ?The word mystic is even more misleading .

Gosia, I do not know for how long you have been a follower of our beliefs, but we as Hindus have known for a long time how others view our religion. Why should it matter to us? Do we need an European stamp of approval? Our religion has survived for over 2000 years and will continue to do so...What difference does it make whether westerners classify our scriptures as mythological or historical? 

Hinduism is a way of life and it is not going to change just because a white skinned blonde haired cannot fathom its depths.

P. S - IMHO, the name of the forum is just fine... certainly not Mythical which has a different connotation altogether.

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Aradhana87

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Posted: 20 January 2012 at 2:08pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by AishuJSKfan

The word "mythological" is not used literally here. We are using the word only because it relates to the hindu tv shows that we discuss here.

If you google "puraanic shows" or any variation of that, you get things like bhakti websites and links to online versions of the puraanas.
If you google "mystical shows" you get magic acts. And apparently, there is a band name "Mystical," so you would find videos of that band performing instead of what you want.
If you google "hindu shows," then you will find the bhakti shows which preach hinduism, but not things like Ramayan, Mahabharat, etc.

We only use the word because then it is easy for fans of the hindu shows to find us. The word mythological has been used for shows like this for so long, that we can't refer to them as anything else. Even the indian press, all the viewers, and bhakts use that word. I don't think it offends anyone.

And as for the westerners, the name of this forum is not going to change their view regarding Hinduism.
I agree the term mythologicals refer to the tv shows based on epics and purans. I don't think it is necessary to change the name as many of us discuss the tv serials and its actors also.

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lola610

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Posted: 20 January 2012 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
^^ Thanks to one and all for weighing in on the discussion thus far. I've caught up on most of it, but the following reply addresses only the very first post and the thread that corresponds with it... and it is VERY long, so Gosia dear, you might want to have a cup of tea beforehand so you can get through all of it LOL

Pranaam Gosia,

Welcome to the forum :) We always feel blessed when this family of devotees expands and we gain new sources of insight and inspiration.  Thank you very much for sharing the information and sentiments that you have put forth in both this thread and the preceding one.  I am touched by the depth of your concern for the sanctity of the scriptures and the misinterpretation and disrespect they have had to endure throughout the years.  I would now like to present my own views on our use of the term "mythology" if it's ok with all of you; I hope you guys can forgive me if anything I say is expressed wrongly and please do correct me if that is the case.

First of all, I might be in the minority here, but I don't interpret the word "mythology" as synonymous with fiction, and therefore I don't find it offensive.  Words are indeed powerful, but their power stems from our intent while we invoke them.  Just recently, Shivang shared a news story with us about a (now resolved) controversy regarding the Bhagvad Gita in Russia.  The controversy was the result of people mistakenly taking one particular connotation of the words "Dharma", "Ishwar", "Devta", etc., and misinterpreting the scripture as a whole to be exclusivist and extremist.  We had a brief but very satisfying discussion in that thread in which we agreed that there are certain such words which have multiple definitions, some of which lead to unfortunate misunderstandings of divine texts and others which make the meaning come to life in the most valuable ways.  In my opinion, "mythology" is one such word.

Its Greek root, "mythos", has a very neutral definition.  It merely means "story", without any further qualification as truth, fiction, or anything in between.  The encyclopedia entry on it states the following: "a myth is defined as a sacred narrative explaining how the world and humankind came to be in their present form… In a very broad sense, the word can refer to any story originating within traditions".  Again, it suggests nothing normative or offensive; narrative just means story, we do hold the stories contained in our scriptures as sacred, and they did originate within our tradition rather than being adapted from multiple origins.  That being said, we are not robots, so when asked to define a term in conversation rather than a research paper, we do work our own chosen connotation into our explanation.  Some may indeed add their own masala and say that myths are fictional, "make believe" stories that were just meant to teach lessons or answer questions but never actually occurred.  However, when I hear mythology, what I think of are narratives set in a time and place that seems so far removed from our own (in language, lifestyle, culture, opulence, etc.) that dwelling on them can be more enthralling than going to an amusement park, and that contain messages of such real insight and practical relevance that studying them even briefly teaches me more that I could ever have learned in +/-16 years of formal schooling.

You are correct in saying others may not be able to read my mind and know that this is how I personally interpret the term and are still susceptible to get the wrong idea about our scriptures and our acceptance of them as reality, but then, I think that a huge purpose for our discussions here is to forget about what those "others" think of us and strive only for the approval of our Lord – Shri Ram, Shri Krishna, Shiv Shankar, Durga Maiya, or however else we choose to address the Absolute.  For a look into what Shri Krishna might think of such a dilemma, I would like to cite a couple of examples from our favorite devotional serials.  Having read and enjoyed certain post at a neighboring forum, I figured these would suffice and I would not have to dig up textual examples for the time being :)  In the song Shyam Tere Kaam Bade Achraj Bhare from Ramanand Sagar's Shri Krishna, we have the line "dheet, anaari, chhaliya, jhootha, prem ki gaali khaaye… sakhiyon ne naam tere kya kya dhare!", telling us that the gopis of Vrindavan responded to Kanha's childhood pranks by affectionately referring to him as a trickster and a liar among other things.  These words mean something totally different when the gopis say them with love than when someone like Shishupal said them with spite, and Shri Krishna can tell the difference.  Similarly, the word "mythological" means something different when I use it than when a cynic does, and as long as Shri Krishna knows the difference, I don't care how "others" interpret my use of the word.

Also, there is one particular line in BR Chopra's Mahabharat that comes to mind – which happens to be one of Shivang's favorite dialogues from the show – which is perfectly applicable here.  It occurs when the Vrishnis are deciding what to do in response to Jarasandh's relentless (albeit failed) attacks on Mathura, and Shri Krishna suggests that they move to Dwarika.  Vasudev worries that this may cause people to derisively refer to his dear son as "Ranchhod", or one who fled from battle.  And Shri Krishna tells his father that he doesn't really care what people call him – what's in a name?  He has so many already; this would just be another one to add to the list.  And when people call upon him, even if they address him with this otherwise derogatory name, he would heed their call all the same.  And thus the term "ranchhod" was redefined – people no longer use it as an insult, but as a name of Krishna, and in fact some even give their sons this name in his honor (remember 3 Idiots, guys – Ranchhoddas Shyamaldas Chaanchad lol).

If you guys still think that the forum needs a new name, it can and will definitely be done.  We'll need a week or two to agree on a new one (may I suggest Devotional Dreamland), and then approximately 3 weeks for the website administrators to vet and make the change since they don't come online that often.  So we can either spend a month on these administrative formalities to address the possibility that our forum's members and activities are being misinterpreted by others because of one of the words that make up its name, or we can spend that time engaged in such devout discussions that – taking a cue from the original Ranchhodji – we end up redefining the connotation of that word altogether. At least among those silent readers of our forum who are willing to look deeper beyond the title and are thus actually worth convincing.  It's up to you guys, and I will gladly abide by your decision.

Sorry for the rant :)

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