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\|/Doubts & Discussions about Lord Shiva Part-1\|/ (Page 101)

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Posted: 27 June 2012 at 2:40pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Vibhishna

Originally posted by narangi_77

Wow! Congrats for 100 pages!

I have a question about the depiction of Shiva as a baby/child. I had never seen this depiction until I went to Kerala.

Even there, I saw it in what seemed to me recent calendar type art. I am wondering if this isn't a 20th c innovation. Or is there a long tradition of such depiction in some parts of India?

Are there any older depictions of the child Shiva that you know of ? Have seen?

Thanks!

Mira


Congrats on 100 pages, everyone.

About your question Mira, I am just speculating.

Thought the art may be recent, its inspiration may have come from ancient Tamil Literature. There is a form of literature called 'Pillai Thamizh' in which the author chooses a hero/heroine for his work, visualises the hero of his creation as a child and describes the various stages of the child's growth - as a baby, a toddler, a kid, etc. All this is written in poetic form in definite stanzas. For example, if a poet wants to choose Lord Shiva as the hero of his/her epic, then he/she will envision Lord Shiva as a baby, a toddler, a kid and write verses about it. The verses wont describe the events of child's life but only the qualities of the child and the leelas. This literature is sometimes speculative and sometimes a creation based on historical facts. The hero/heroine can be anyone - a god or human. I've heard of Pillai Thamizh literature on Lord Skanda, Lord Ganesh, some famous kings, sometimes about Lord Srinivasa and the Goddess Ambika but not on Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu. It is possible that someone may have written about Lord Shiva as a child and an artist had depicted it or the artist could have taken the inspiration from the literature itself.


I cannot recall any other references to Lord Shiva being a kid except the times (2 instances) when the three Gods tested Anusuya and Pattinathaar's story.

I'll post the stories too, if required Smile



I have heard of Pillai Tamizh lit of course. But never connected the two. Thanks a lot! That's very interesting!


Edited by narangi_77 - 27 June 2012 at 2:40pm

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vanadhi

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Posted: 27 June 2012 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by subha2601

I hv seen some paintings where Lord Shiva who is a kid is sleeping on a tiger skin.
 
Here's da story behind it.

One of the lesser known incarnations of Lord Shiva is a Child. Shiva took the form of a child to pacify Goddess Shakti, who took the form of the ferocious form of Goddess Chamunda to kill the demons Chara and Munda. After annihilating Chara and Munda, Goddess Chamunda looked around the earth and realized that the real demons are ego, avarice, jealousy, anger and lust which has overwhelmed the mind of human beings and decided to destroy the universe. Goddess Shakti, the mother of the Universe, thus decided to take up an unusual role of the destructor of the Universe.

Sensing the impending danger, Lord Shiva decided to take the form a child. Soon Mahadeva took the form a baby and began to cry. His cry echoed through the universe and Goddess Chamunda looked around and found Shiva in the form a child.

Goddess Shakti experienced pangs of motherly love and soon approached the child with an urge to nurse him. Child Shiva was soon able to pacify the ferocious Chamunda.

While nursing the child Shiva, Goddess Shakti realized that she was the mother of the universe and her rage turned to affection.

  

Thanks a LOT Subha! That;s one of the pics I was thinking of too!

Do you have a source for the story? Is it S. Indian?

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Vibhishnavanadhi-Tulips-

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 12:47am | IP Logged
Subha,

Thanks for the info. This story is entirely new to me. Is it from the Puranas?

I thought the name Chamundi or Chamunda was given to the fierce-some form of the Goddess Shakthi or Parvati because She had destroyed the demons Chanda and Munda.





Edited by Vibhishna - 28 June 2012 at 12:49am

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 3:41am | IP Logged
Mira

Congratulations on the 800th post - the first one on this page

Originally posted by vanadhi

Originally posted by .Vrish.

Wow!  100 pages Clap

Samana

That question should actually go in this thread in the mytho forum.


Some people can address it there.  I believe there are a few people from DkDM who are present there as well.

Thanks for the link , I forgot to book mark it , last time.
Why it is not displayed in first page like other columns ?Ermm
accessing is hard !


It's been discussed a bit - it certainly doesn't belong in the foreign & popular TV section.  But on pg 1 of this thread, we have links to all the mytho D&D threads on I-F (I had forgotten one about Hanuman from the Mahavir Hanuman forum - here it is - Doubts & Discussions about Hanuman Mythology).  The Ramayan & Krishna threads are now frozen, which is why any discussions on them go into the above thread.  Or else, Samana's question could have gone to the Ramayan D&D thread, had it still been open.


Edited by .Vrish. - 28 June 2012 at 4:05am

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whatthewhatvanadhiNandiniRaizadaa

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 3:50am | IP Logged
I have a different question - which I recalled seeing the ridiculous precap of Rati cursing Parvati Wacko

Question is this - when Shiva was reminded after his marriage to provide the Devas w/ his son to lead them, he used some sparks to be given to Agni & Vayu, who took it to the Ganga, who took it to Shravan, and from where Kartikeya was born.  Parvati was not 'needed' at all for Shiva to have his son.

So question is - why did the Devas have to wait for who knows how long for Mahadev to marry?  Once Tarakasura had been given his boon, the Devas could have approached Mahadev for a son, and Mahadev could have done the same thing he did anyway - gotten the sparks, given them to Agni & Vayu and so on.  Only that there would have been no Parvati to claim parentage, but Mahadev would have been available to take little Kartikeya, and raise him.  Just cut the wait, and let Parvati get united w/ him whenever he felt like it (like he ultimately did), w/o delaying the destruction of Tarakasura.

And as for Ganesh later, since he was specifically created to obstruct Mahadev, I guess Parvati getting Mahadev to give her a son for that purpose would have been too ridiculous?

Anyway, particularly for my question about Kartikeya above - given what ultimately happened, why was it necessary for Mahadev to marry in order to give the Devas what they needed?

Oh, and an aside - was there any particular reason that Mahadev & Parvati didn't have any uterine babies?

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vanadhi-Tulips-NandiniRaizadaa

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 7:06am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Oh, and an aside - was there any particular reason that Mahadev & Parvati didn't have any uterine babies?

To answer your last question:

Parvati, in her Divine Primordial form is considered to be an eternal virgin. 

Among the sevaral names used in her worship are Brahmacharini, Nitya Youvanna, Kanya Kumari, etc all pointing to her "virgin" status. The Gayatri Mantra used to invoke her is "Katyayanyai Vidmahe Kanyakumari cha Deemahi Tanno Durge Prachodayat" 

She is the incarnate of Prakriti itself. She herself symbolizes the process of creation. The human process of procreation is for, well, humans. As the Supreme Goddess, She possesses other methods to create new lives. The uterine way would be degenerating her Divinity.

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:00am | IP Logged
Thanks for this reply.  Incidentally, is the same thought to be true about Lakshmi & Saraswati - them being eternal virgins?

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vanadhiNandiniRaizadaa

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:08am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Thanks for this reply.  Incidentally, is the same thought to be true about Lakshmi & Saraswati - them being eternal virgins?

Lakshmi- in her Divine Form, yes. Anyway, I don't think the Sanskrit Puranas mention Lakshmi ever having children. But when she took a human form, for e.g Sita, then she had to resort to the human process of giving birth.

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