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Hema and Judges (Page 15)

ummm Senior Member
ummm
ummm

Joined: 25 February 2005
Posts: 964

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 8:45pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by realmusic

Originally posted by ummm

3. When Debu made a mistake, I called it a mistake. Same with Vinit. Hema is no exception either. But if I am not mistaken, in our previous discussion on Mitwa, you did not agree that Hema had lost sur in the tananana lines. If you happen to revisit the thread, you'll notice others (incl some Hema fans) agreeing that he lost sur there. We can get into a good technical discussion (esp since you have a classical background too) if we leave biases aside and see white as white and black as black. Then probably we can talk about technical superiority in general and wrt Hema, Vinit and Debu.

4. Reagrding my statement on ignoring Debu's cracked voice : In Saathiya, hema got a 10 even when he had a cracked voice, he missed lyrics and had diction trouble. But as I have said before, these mistakes were worth ignoring (in that particular song, if I may emphasize) simply because he showed the courage to attempt such a difficult song live and did justice to it for most part. If you look at the bigger picture of Debu's qawwali recital, you'll probably agree that that one cracked voice mistake was worth ignoring as compared to the justice he did to the rest of the song. But there's a big difference in these 2 situations - while Hema's mistakes were overlooked by the mentors, Debu's were not! He got a 6. Any guesses on who should cry injustice? Smile


I llistened to the Mitwa - Tananana part, Hema does not really lose sur . He sings that very quietly so it appears so. You have to listen to it aloud - preferably with headphones.

Debo's qawwali song was a brave attempt, but he was out of his league. He did well in parts, but for the most part he totally lost the rhythm of the song; and in some places, the sur. That is why he was judged harshly.

If you listen to the original and take the swars from it, and take swars from Hema's version, you'll find a difference in the two.

Again Debo's league is a very subjective matter, and I haven't been able to identify what's his league and what's not.



Edited by ummm - 03 April 2006 at 8:46pm

sarangee Newbie
sarangee
sarangee

Joined: 17 January 2006
Posts: 20

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 9:22pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ummm

Originally posted by autmother

agree with Madhavi. this is an unending discussion. But one thing is sure ummmmmm whatever you say, I dont think your analysis is based on music. YOu probably got a few set ideas from someone who knows a little music and you are set on them, about the diction, voice cracking and the same stuff.
I am too old to be fan and stuff like that. But hema's voice is unique. You just are making a point to criticise him with whatever little you can find. I could agree more if you made an intelligent musical analysis as opposed to saying the same things the mentors are saying all along with no substance. I definitely think the judges were biased with Hema just like you. I dont know what you keep harping about Tanhayee. He never slipped sur. HIs voice cracking was a natural phenomenon, but that is not the same as slipping sur, you need to know the difference, but cant say the same about 27 year old Debojit. His voice cracked because he couldnt singthe notes and it was not even that high an octave. I am not criticising Debojit He still sang pretty well. But it is not injustice since he did not sing well. You know this will go on and on and I dont want to keep harping on it.
But you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine.

For your kind information by first choice would be Nihira and Nihira only. I do like Hema's voice a lot and his singing too. Nobody is saying he is the best, but yes he is the best among SRGMP 2005 boys/men. You need to have a valid point when you make your comments,not generic, which we have been hearing from judges already.

Please feel free to disagree, but I would appreciate you not making "guesses" about my musical background, especially in careless words. Thanks in advance!

 

Ummm,

Please don't get me wrong but if you are not really trained in music, please don't make judgments and statements about the finer variations in music as though you are trained and know a lot about music. It is great that you are a music lover and that you have a strong opinion. I respect that but to be on a fault finding mission about a singer like Hemu who knows much more about music than you do, you must have good knowledge. Otherwise it is better not to say so much about stuff about which you are not really an expert.

I know a wee bit about music and have sung in orchestras and I have to say that of all the male singers in Saregamapa, Hema and Abhijeet Ghoshal were the two singers who rarely went off sur. Vinit and Sharib will come after that. Debojit was a major culprit because of tension and also because he was uncomfortable at really high notes.

Hema's only two mistakes were Bachna Ae Haseenon (where he forgot the song and missed a beat) and the Karma song (where he forgot the lyrics and was unsettled afterwards). In sur, laye and taal he was very very good and absolutely fantastic in feelngs. He was bad in diction initially but has gradually improved. I am sure he lost a lot of marks due to diction. I felt like laughing when someone pointed out Tanhayee, Mitwa and Saathiya (which actually moved Kunal and the guests to goosebumps). These were some of his best performances. Please don't make statements like that because it does not put you or whoever said that in good light. Tanhayee was so good that Hema managed to stamp his individuality on a Sonu Nigam song. He was magnificient. Also most people will agee with me that Hema and Nihira were the best among the boys and girls. That is why depite the pitiful numer of votes from South, Hema was in the top 3. That shows his all round popularity.

Vinit was really bad in breath control and low notes. Also his landing notes were really abrupt and he used to shout at the higher notes. He needs some strong classical training as he is not a refined singer at all though he has talent. So my only advice to you is that please make some educated comments and you will see people giving you your due respect.

realmusic Senior Member
realmusic
realmusic

Joined: 20 January 2006
Posts: 212

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 9:26pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ummm

If you listen to the original and take the swars from it, and take swars from Hema's version, you'll find a difference in the two.

Again Debo's league is a very subjective matter, and I haven't been able to identify what's his league and what's not.

The original Tananana part was sung by a female, and Iam quite familiar with it. You really have to analyze it with headphones. Hema sings it at a quieter level, at a lower pitch. Please, this is nitpicking. Perhaps you'd like to apply such standards to other singers as well.

When I said "league", I meant that Debo picked an overly complicated song and got called for being mediocre in 75% of it. He could have chosen an easier song and sung it better.

autmother Senior Member
autmother
autmother

Joined: 04 February 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 9:37pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by realmusic

Originally posted by ummm

If you listen to the original and take the swars from it, and take swars from Hema's version, you'll find a difference in the two.

Again Debo's league is a very subjective matter, and I haven't been able to identify what's his league and what's not.

The original Tananana part was sung by a female, and Iam quite familiar with it. You really have to analyze it with headphones. Hema sings it at a quieter level, at a lower pitch. Please, this is nitpicking. Perhaps you'd like to apply such standards to other singers as well.

When I said "league", I meant that Debo picked an overly complicated song and got called for being mediocre in 75% of it. He could have chosen an easier song and sung it better.

exactly. But I think you should just ignore it, because we did this arguing with this person several times.  I have heard and infact played on the instrument to see if there are variations. But I did not find any. But again, I think it is better to ignore ignorance rather than fuel it. What say you?

autmother Senior Member
autmother
autmother

Joined: 04 February 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by sarangee

Originally posted by ummm

Originally posted by autmother

agree with Madhavi. this is an unending discussion. But one thing is sure ummmmmm whatever you say, I dont think your analysis is based on music. YOu probably got a few set ideas from someone who knows a little music and you are set on them, about the diction, voice cracking and the same stuff.
I am too old to be fan and stuff like that. But hema's voice is unique. You just are making a point to criticise him with whatever little you can find. I could agree more if you made an intelligent musical analysis as opposed to saying the same things the mentors are saying all along with no substance. I definitely think the judges were biased with Hema just like you. I dont know what you keep harping about Tanhayee. He never slipped sur. HIs voice cracking was a natural phenomenon, but that is not the same as slipping sur, you need to know the difference, but cant say the same about 27 year old Debojit. His voice cracked because he couldnt singthe notes and it was not even that high an octave. I am not criticising Debojit He still sang pretty well. But it is not injustice since he did not sing well. You know this will go on and on and I dont want to keep harping on it.
But you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine.

For your kind information by first choice would be Nihira and Nihira only. I do like Hema's voice a lot and his singing too. Nobody is saying he is the best, but yes he is the best among SRGMP 2005 boys/men. You need to have a valid point when you make your comments,not generic, which we have been hearing from judges already.

Please feel free to disagree, but I would appreciate you not making "guesses" about my musical background, especially in careless words. Thanks in advance!

 

Ummm,

Please don't get me wrong but if you are not really trained in music, please don't make judgments and statements about the finer variations in music as though you are trained and know a lot about music. It is great that you are a music lover and that you have a strong opinion. I respect that but to be on a fault finding mission about a singer like Hemu who knows much more about music than you do, you must have good knowledge. Otherwise it is better not to say so much about stuff about which you are not really an expert.

I know a wee bit about music and have sung in orchestras and I have to say that of all the male singers in Saregamapa, Hema and Abhijeet Ghoshal were the two singers who rarely went off sur. Vinit and Sharib will come after that. Debojit was a major culprit because of tension and also because he was uncomfortable at really high notes.

Hema's only two mistakes were Bachna Ae Haseenon (where he forgot the song and missed a beat) and the Karma song (where he forgot the lyrics and was unsettled afterwards). In sur, laye and taal he was very very good and absolutely fantastic in feelngs. He was bad in diction initially but has gradually improved. I am sure he lost a lot of marks due to diction. I felt like laughing when someone pointed out Tanhayee, Mitwa and Saathiya (which actually moved Kunal and the guests to goosebumps). These were some of his best performances. Please don't make statements like that because it does not put you or whoever said that in good light. Tanhayee was so good that Hema managed to stamp his individuality on a Sonu Nigam song. He was magnificient. Also most people will agee with me that Hema and Nihira were the best among the boys and girls. That is why depite the pitiful numer of votes from South, Hema was in the top 3. That shows his all round popularity.

Vinit was really bad in breath control and low notes. Also his landing notes were really abrupt and he used to shout at the higher notes. He needs some strong classical training as he is not a refined singer at all though he has talent. So my only advice to you is that please make some educated comments and you will see people giving you your due respect.

Well said. ONe thing I want to add to your comments is that even if you have learnt classical music for few years it does not make you an expert, and also film music there is so much of overlap of swaras due to the music, it is hard to nitpick on that.

autmother Senior Member
autmother
autmother

Joined: 04 February 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 9:46pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ummm

Originally posted by autmother

agree with Madhavi. this is an unending discussion. But one thing is sure ummmmmm whatever you say, I dont think your analysis is based on music. YOu probably got a few set ideas from someone who knows a little music and you are set on them, about the diction, voice cracking and the same stuff.
I am too old to be fan and stuff like that. But hema's voice is unique. You just are making a point to criticise him with whatever little you can find. I could agree more if you made an intelligent musical analysis as opposed to saying the same things the mentors are saying all along with no substance. I definitely think the judges were biased with Hema just like you. I dont know what you keep harping about Tanhayee. He never slipped sur. HIs voice cracking was a natural phenomenon, but that is not the same as slipping sur, you need to know the difference, but cant say the same about 27 year old Debojit. His voice cracked because he couldnt singthe notes and it was not even that high an octave. I am not criticising Debojit He still sang pretty well. But it is not injustice since he did not sing well. You know this will go on and on and I dont want to keep harping on it.
But you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine.

For your kind information by first choice would be Nihira and Nihira only. I do like Hema's voice a lot and his singing too. Nobody is saying he is the best, but yes he is the best among SRGMP 2005 boys/men. You need to have a valid point when you make your comments,not generic, which we have been hearing from judges already.

Please feel free to disagree, but I would appreciate you not making "guesses" about my musical background, especially in careless words. Thanks in advance!

 

I dont really believe that everyonelearning music are expert judges. Please do not make any uneducated careless assumptions and analysis of singers who have done years of riyaaz, training and singing and it will be vice versa with us. WE all thank you in advance for considering that.



Edited by autmother - 03 April 2006 at 9:48pm
realmusic Senior Member
realmusic
realmusic

Joined: 20 January 2006
Posts: 212

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 9:48pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by autmother

Originally posted by realmusic

Originally posted by ummm

If you listen to the original and take the swars from it, and take swars from Hema's version, you'll find a difference in the two.

Again Debo's league is a very subjective matter, and I haven't been able to identify what's his league and what's not.

The original Tananana part was sung by a female, and Iam quite familiar with it. You really have to analyze it with headphones. Hema sings it at a quieter level, at a lower pitch. Please, this is nitpicking. Perhaps you'd like to apply such standards to other singers as well.

When I said "league", I meant that Debo picked an overly complicated song and got called for being mediocre in 75% of it. He could have chosen an easier song and sung it better.

exactly. But I think you should just ignore it, because we did this arguing with this person several times.  I have heard and infact played on the instrument to see if there are variations. But I did not find any. But again, I think it is better to ignore ignorance rather than fuel it. What say you?

Agree, thanks. When you scratch an itch, it only gets worse. Wink

sarangee Newbie
sarangee
sarangee

Joined: 17 January 2006
Posts: 20

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 9:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by autmother

Originally posted by ummm

Originally posted by autmother

agree with Madhavi. this is an unending discussion. But one thing is sure ummmmmm whatever you say, I dont think your analysis is based on music. YOu probably got a few set ideas from someone who knows a little music and you are set on them, about the diction, voice cracking and the same stuff.
I am too old to be fan and stuff like that. But hema's voice is unique. You just are making a point to criticise him with whatever little you can find. I could agree more if you made an intelligent musical analysis as opposed to saying the same things the mentors are saying all along with no substance. I definitely think the judges were biased with Hema just like you. I dont know what you keep harping about Tanhayee. He never slipped sur. HIs voice cracking was a natural phenomenon, but that is not the same as slipping sur, you need to know the difference, but cant say the same about 27 year old Debojit. His voice cracked because he couldnt singthe notes and it was not even that high an octave. I am not criticising Debojit He still sang pretty well. But it is not injustice since he did not sing well. You know this will go on and on and I dont want to keep harping on it.
But you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine.

For your kind information by first choice would be Nihira and Nihira only. I do like Hema's voice a lot and his singing too. Nobody is saying he is the best, but yes he is the best among SRGMP 2005 boys/men. You need to have a valid point when you make your comments,not generic, which we have been hearing from judges already.

Please feel free to disagree, but I would appreciate you not making "guesses" about my musical background, especially in careless words. Thanks in advance!

 

I dont really believe that everyonelearning music are expert judges. Please do not make any uneducated careless assumptions and analysis of singers who have done years of riyaaz, training and singing and it will be vice versa with us. WE all thank you in advance for considering that.

Autmother,

 

I agree with you completely. I get a feeling that thie person concerned does not like Hemu. I hae heard Hemu's songs a lot now and I have to say he is very pucca in sur, laye, taal and feel. Some minor aberrations happen to all singers when they sing on stage and there is no reason to nitpick.

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