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Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Singing Superstar

Hema and Judges (Page 13)

autmother Senior Member
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Joined: 04 February 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 4:49pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by dumbdame

VINIT BEING A HINDI SPEAKING PERSON, HAS MISPRONUNCIATED CERTAIN WORDS. IT WAS VERY LOUD AND OBVIOUS. WHY NO ONE SAID ANY THING TO HIM?
CAN ANY ONE FROM NORTH SING SONGS IN OTHER LANGUAGES LANGUAGES EVEN THAT MUCH COMFORTABLE AS HEMU DID?

 

well, this ummmmm expert analysis thinks vinit is tecnically superior too!!!

what can you say?

autmother Senior Member
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Joined: 04 February 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 4:55pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Jaadoogar

Originally posted by autmother

Originally posted by surma_bhopali

yeh kya keh riye ho aut miyan. apna debu bhi mast gata hai, keh riya hoon. qawwali mein kya alaap liye, kya taan sunaye...aaha, ek dam kara, miyan, ek dam khara. haan, hema behtar hain miyan, keh riya hoon. lakkad doon?

 

Sorry I dont want to offend any fans here.

I do agree that Debojit is a good singer. I am not denying it. But I am merely replying to ummmm's post about the asssessment that Hema was not technically superior than Debojit. and her rather inflammatory post which she has done several times

Trained singer teacher bana sakta hai lekin gifted singer sirf bhagwan hi bana sakta hai. Debu to gifted plus trained dono hai. Hema trained singer islie alaap acha kar leta. Main hema se acha alap kar sakta hoon. Lekin meri awaaz bari bakwaas hai aor mere singing mein feel nahin hai. Kaya different songs gaya debo and Nihira ne. These two were most versatile singers. Nihira and Debo are best. I wanted to see them in final. Ka kahte ho surma bhopali ji.

well, the contest is over and Debo has won.  I disagree that anyone trained can sing well. every judge has commented on the tonal and voice quality of Hema. need i say more. There is no need tocompare any singers. this thread is for unfair treatment of Hema.  that should be the discussion. ithink hema, nihira and debo were versatile. support your favourite but give due credit to other good singers too.

autmother Senior Member
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Posts: 245

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 5:12pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by srianne

Originally posted by ab_srgmp

Originally posted by ummm

My comments embedded in yours below

Originally posted by ab_srgmp

Originally posted by ummm

I have failed to undertsand why so many people think that Hema was ignored, Hema was not hyped, Hema did not get what he deserved, the judges did injustice to him, Zee did injustice to him etc etc.

SRGMP was a competition. He participated, he sang, he won many times and he lost, just the way the rest of the gang (Sharib, Rajeev, Irfan etc) did. So why treat him special over and over? He was good alright, but not flawless. He did have an upperhand on Vinit and Debu in certain qualities, just the way they had an upperhand on each other and Hema in some other qualities. Hema did get accolades from judges and full points when he sang well, but on days he did not score as much, we should understand that his performance was probably not up to the mark.

Vinit ofcourse was hyped by his mentor, so there isn't much point comparing the hype and attention that he received with any other male or female contestant on the show.


Because to us Hema fans, he is special. Nobody else has been able to touch my heart the way his singing did. You're right, he was not flawless, but neither were Vinit, Debo and Himani.

Agree.. all contestants including Nihira had their strong points and weak points. In their own "areas of specialization" they all excelled and went close to the flawless mark, but in other areas, they all lagged behind to a certain degree, and these degrees varied for the diff contestants. There were plenty of gray areas too about the contestants' ability to sing something, as these areas were unexplored - for ex - Vinit singing any SPB or Sukhwinder numbers, Hema singing any comedy songs, Nihirs singing any punjabi folk etc.


Let's take the example of ID.

Vinit - got a 50 Rupee note from the guy, when he performed really well.
Himani - ID had to go on stage and praise/bless her.

Could those reactions from ID not be because Vinit's and Himani's songs touched his heart just the way Hema's touched yours? Even if you leave ID aside calling him biased and look at the comments from HR, JL, Hema's own mentor AS, or even other judges on the show including Subhash Ghai, they were also not very flowery for Hema. The other contestants received much better feedback - possibly because those songs touched their hearts, while Hema's did not?  

And Vinit and Himani got the most 10s on the mento meters, even for relatively easy performances. Hema and Nihira got more 9s than 10s, even though, technically there were the most superior (in the top 10 atleast).  The biggest issue people had with Hema was his 'diction' issues. I am not a hindi/urdu expert, but I felt that his issues only crept up in a couple of words, in a couple of songs. But maybe people more familiar with the language would know better.

Hema's superiority is again not an established fact, but something felt by many of us. He was good, but I would not call him technically superior than Debu, Vineet or Abhijeet. Diction is an issue and even Vinit had diction problems, but lets keep that aside for now. While Hema was impressive as a singer, we should not ignore that he did lose his sur on many occassions. That is a bigger problem than diction. Himani on the other end, sang in a lower scale than original, but her performances were not offkey, as far as my memory goes. Vinit, in my opinion, had a much better sur control than Hema and Debu, although he lacked in other factors.


I honestly don't believe that the mento meter marks were directly tied to performance.   Some contestants were given 9s even with missed lyrics, while Hema was severely penalised for missed lyrics. There was so much inconsistency, that it became very irrelevant to me. But it was sure to have played some psychological games with the contestants, and also to some extent influenced public voting.

Since the mentors did not explain most of the times (especially in the later shows) what they were looking at in the songs and what they found the constestasnt lacking on, it is just a speculation that Hema was penalized for missed lyrics more than others. May be there were other things that they found missing, but never shared with him or us?


 



I respect your opinion. We are all entitled to ours. So for now, we'll agree to disagree on the following points:

1. Hema's singing did not have the ability to touch the judges hearts like Himani's and Vinit's
2. He was not more superior technically than Debu and Vinit (sur wise and otherwise)
3. What the judges found missing in Hema's songs, they completely found in Vint's and Himani's songs.
4. Of the songs that the contestants were made to sing, Hema did not show the most versatality.

5. His voice quality, originality, versatility, and improvisations did not make him a stand out as a singer.

And we can agree on:
1. Abhijeet Ghosal was a very good singer (although I am not sure about his versatility either)



Very valid points, Aruna. I agree with you completely. Though it's hard to believe that Hema's songs are less touchy than Vinit/Himani's, then again it's depends on what people are looking for in a singer. He has touched my heart (and many others) and came across as the most versatile in the C2005 lot to me. I also believe that if people have hyped Vinit/Himani, it will only act as a disadvantage for them in future because they will have to live upto those high expectations. In a ways, it was good Hema wasn't as hyped - I would rather let his singing speak which already is happening...

 

in response to this comment.

In fact Ghai gave the most wonderful comments to Hema.

About Ramta jogi he said he sang so well and almost close to Sukhwinder, Nahin Samne, wohi feelings, sur, voice, sould bilkul Hariharan ki thara. That is a superb comment. Infact he was one of the few who gave good comments to Hema. SO this shows that eyes and ears do not see or hear what mind does not want to !!!!!!

enjoysgoodmusic Newbie
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Posted: 03 April 2006 at 6:47pm | IP Logged
True, Hema recieved far less praise than the other contestants. Like someone else said, te judges are dumb. The only thing they had against hema was his diction ( which I believe is almost perfect) and this fact was hammered over and over. THe diction was giving more importance than his deep and versitile voice. The truth is that they were prejudice against south indians and did not feel a south indian was capable of winning an all india singing contest.
autmother Senior Member
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Joined: 04 February 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 7:31pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by enjoysgoodmusic

True, Hema recieved far less praise than the other contestants. Like someone else said, te judges are dumb. The only thing they had against hema was his diction ( which I believe is almost perfect) and this fact was hammered over and over. THe diction was giving more importance than his deep and versitile voice. The truth is that they were prejudice against south indians and did not feel a south indian was capable of winning an all india singing contest.

Sounds a bit harsh, but that is the honest truth, but south indians are to be blamed too, since we did not stand up and support Hema like Assam did for Debojit.

ummm Senior Member
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Posts: 964

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 7:58pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by autmother


I really wanted to ignore your post ummmm, but was unable to do it.



I think ummmm always has a problem in acknowledging Hema as a good singer. I dont want to start about that. Needless to say I disagree.
SO when Debojit slips his sur a liitle on songs that is ok, but you are telling us that Hema is not technically better than Debojit.
Debojit could not do the alaaps and was going flat most times when the pitch got higher and voice cracked repeatedly when he had to sing high notes.and he is way past puberty. Now I dont call that technically superior. Debojit is a good singer, no doubt, may be better than Vinit, but please dont tell me he is better than Hema.
Again what do you mean by slipping on sur.
I think we had this discussion before. You started about his VandeMataram, Mitwa about how he slipped sur. Now you are listening to him with microscopic ears for lack of a better term, but then again when it comes to other singers you let mistakes slide. HOnestly I dont see your assessment any different than ID or HR whichwas biased based on other factors(which you know already) other than music, singing, sur, taal or voice quality.



Hello there! Loooong time!! Wink

I should have expected this response coming! Smile

Lets get a few things straightened -

1. There are countless fans of Hema everywhere, but NOT everyone is his fan. It is very good that he has a fiercely dedicated fan following especially in folks like yourself and hats off to that. If I were in Hema's shoes, I would be overwhelmed to see the love. But please do allow some breathing space to those who beg to differ in opinion.

2. I sure have criticized Hema, but I have also said that he is a "good", "impressive", pleasing" singer, although I have stopped short of calling him "outstanding", "charismatic" or "best". You possibly missed the good things I said about him, and that's understandable - there are zillions of posts on this forum. Just to tell a bit about me - I am neither a Hema fan, nor a Hema hater. I am just neutral and I enjoy being that.

3. When Debu made a mistake, I called it a mistake. Same with Vinit. Hema is no exception either. But if I am not mistaken, in our previous discussion on Mitwa, you did not agree that Hema had lost sur in the tananana lines. If you happen to revisit the thread, you'll notice others (incl some Hema fans) agreeing that he lost sur there. We can get into a good technical discussion (esp since you have a classical background too) if we leave biases aside and see white as white and black as black. Then probably we can talk about technical superiority in general and wrt Hema, Vinit and Debu.

4. Reagrding my statement on ignoring Debu's cracked voice : In Saathiya, hema got a 10 even when he had a cracked voice, he missed lyrics and had diction trouble. But as I have said before, these mistakes were worth ignoring (in that particular song, if I may emphasize) simply because he showed the courage to attempt such a difficult song live and did justice to it for most part. If you look at the bigger picture of Debu's qawwali recital, you'll probably agree that that one cracked voice mistake was worth ignoring as compared to the justice he did to the rest of the song. But there's a big difference in these 2 situations - while Hema's mistakes were overlooked by the mentors, Debu's were not! He got a 6. Any guesses on who should cry injustice? Smile

5, ID's bias - lets talk about it some other day, unless you want to go over some older threads in which ID's "hypothetical bias" was discussed.

6. HR's bias - I think we both agree that his bias was only towards Vinit, and against the rest! Not sure there is anything to discuss there. Smile

ummm Senior Member
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Posted: 03 April 2006 at 8:01pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by surma_bhopali

Haan to miyan, keh riya hoon na Hema behtar hai. Lakkad doon? ekdum khara hai.

Bhopali ji, ye "lakkad" kya hai? Kahin "lappad" to nahi? Wink

 

madhavi_r108 Goldie
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Posts: 1541

Posted: 03 April 2006 at 8:11pm | IP Logged
Like autmother ji, I really didn't want to comment about this especially to Ummmm ji's comments, because we all are entitled to have an opinion of our own and I know that even if I sit in front of you and present u this as an argument, you are going to find flaws with Hemu and there is no problem in that. You had mentioned before that you are a trained singer I think, so I really respect your opinion; jsut dont agree with it.

1) Hemu's voice cracking is a 'natural' phenomena, he is 17 and at that age it happens. Vinits voice cracked when he sang Tu Mile and Fiza.. Hema's voice cracked when he was singing soem exceptionally tough songs. If you tell me that Saathiya wasn't as tough as a Tu Mile or Fiza, and it was easier, I will really have to look back at my own music learning lessons! To sing a Rahman song with so much of overlaps and to do that without cracking, means something. Debojeet's voice cracking just shows that he couldn't take that pitch that high. At his age, chances are unless he works REALLY hard, he cant take that high pitch ever. In case of Hemu, he is still 17, let his voice get into path and then if it still cracks, I'll agree with you.

2) I don't think Vinit was better in sur department than Hemu. Vinit sang to his strengths ALWAYS. His biggest strenght was to sing slower songs, and look at most of his songs, they are relatively slow, and they dont have much of a speed variation in the song. Tera Jadoo chal gaya is high and stays high, it doesnt go low - high - medium - low - high.. Same with Fiza..its like High - Low - High... Yeh Dil - High High Higher!.. Look at Hemu's graph.. 'Nahin Saamne low - high (preyasi on one note) - medium - low - high (secong preyasi) - medium - low, saathiya medium - high - low - medium - low - high - medium - low.. if u r variating songs so much and if u can make the song sound good, for common ears, its on sur! Hemu's lost sur sometimes, agreed, probably more than Vinit but that by NO means makes Vinit more pakka on sur..ask Vinit to sing a Ramta Jogi or a Tanhayee or a Hay Rama and then we'll see.. Hemu is classically trained and very few classically trained singers with almost 13 years experience go 'off' sur ! My POV only

3) your comment saying that mentors having other reasons why they gave less points to Hemu , I agree with you partly. I've mentioned before that I felt they gave him less points because they expected more from him. Quite frankly, I never had anything against their marking, because barring his Mera Karma Tu (where he was bad, there he slipped off sur several times) and bachna ae haseeno.. he always got over 8..so that means he was good.. infact he got more marks than Debo, so if we keep 'mentometer' as the judge, he was defn. better than Debo.. I think the argument is the fact that even though the mentor might have giving a high mark, he never explained y..sometimes doing that gives the audience an idea..like Adesh explained why Nihira's rangeela or I love you were great.. i think these comments matter a LOT !

Ummm ji, no offence meant..u r entitled to ur opinion.. but just wanted to add some points to it..

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