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TEC>Hangwizard Results>Pg 194 :D (Page 59)

daniel_4ever IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 24 April 2006 at 2:06pm | IP Logged
sooo.. guys wats goin on... Big smile

zara29 IF-Rockerz
zara29
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Posted: 24 April 2006 at 6:39pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by alia

just went back a few pages and saw tht i cant participate Big smile (am not good at debating) but judging is going to be difficult as u all r soooo good...
keep it up Smile and well i dont think this is going to end anytime soon as i dont see ne1 of u backing away Wink

aww....Alia...Im not a good debator either but I did try 2 participate..u can do tooEmbarrassedEmbarrassed

yup!every1 is just gr88 at debating ...lyk Tejas bro,Achal,Lunza,T.ClapClap

zara29 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 24 April 2006 at 6:41pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by hazelgirl

Originally posted by lunza

Originally posted by albusdumbledore


Originally posted by achal

 But why would he want to? It would be much easier to just kill than have a horcrux as an enemy.. If he had attempted to remove his soul first, then Harry might've done something to harm Voldy before he could do anything.. He couldn't just waste his time doing that.. I know that Voldy loves him too much, but he also knows that he has many other horcruxes.. He doesn't yet know that Harry already knows about his horcruxes, so hw wouldn't think twice about destroying one od his own horcruxes that was a threat to him, just for the sake of his other souls.. Why would he waste his time thinking about a soul of his that is within his enemy?

see we have already seen dat Harry is no match for Voldy. even in da graveyard we see dat Voldy is merely playin around wid Harry till he decides to kill him... Harry merely survives becoz of Priori Incantatem then. So if you say that Harry would have done sumthin to harm voldy that sounds a very indistinct possibility to me (or in dat case even to the most eternal optimist) Y i say this is becoz in da numerous times Harry has met Voldy it is always voldy who has harmed (or tried to) Harry never da other way round (except in da atrium of da MoM, where also he was able to possess Harry long enough to scare Dumbledore)

 

Well ya , Harry doesnt stand a chance against voldy if he

 fights by the conventional and orthodox kinda means

lyk proper duelling , bcuz harry will be dead faster than he can say expelliarmus ...

and one more thing is that harry has always

 survived his fights wid voldy mainly due to sheer luck

 and his sharp reflexes .... and also stalling for time by talking wid voldy and the death eaters...

quite agree with u but it was not entirely his sheer luck...no doubt that he has sharp reflexes but the time when he met Voldy..it was coz of the golden web from which his parents and others came out.....so...its not his luck entirely...

I agree with Alia...that it was not ENTIRELY his sheer luckyEmbarrassed

He does hav the same powers as voldy's though harry didnt know abt it till book 5th...Embarrassed

achal IF-Dazzler
achal
achal

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Posted: 24 April 2006 at 6:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by albusdumbledore

Originally posted by achal

A mark? We can't simply call the scar a simple mark, can we? Otherwise, it wouldn't be so sensitive.. Do a simple scar you have hurt whenever your enemy is near you? It might be there because od the spell, but we can't say it's just a simple mark.. There are some secrets behind that scar, and all I'm saying it might be one of Voldy's horcrux, otherwise it wouldn't be so sensitive..

that is not entirely necessary..... the AV curse by itself has considerable magical power behind... I would like to take you all to Book 4 (GoF) where the fake Moody (Barty Couch Jr.) tells his class about the AV. He says that even if da whole class went ahead n pointed their wands towards him n said he wouldn't get as much as nosebleed.  My point here is dat maybe as an AV curse rips the soul from da body, maybe wen da curse backfired from Harry n hit Voldy maybe becoz of Voldy's hocruxes it also ripped sum of his powers n transferred to the nearest magical entity i.e. Harry. in da process leaving him (harry) wid a scar. maybe this is why harry is able to feel voldy's feelings.


Okay, let's say what you're saying is partly true.. And, when u cast AV, your soul does get ripped, but maybe instead of what you're saying, maybe when the spell backfired, instead of transferring only his powers, what if it transfered his soul, which was already ripped, to Harry and that caused the scar? And alongside that, it might have transfered some of the powers as well...

Originally posted by albusdumbledore

Originally posted by achal


I dunno about this one either.. Are you sure that love is the charm needed to seal a horcrux.. I've never heard this before.. Maybe it isn't love that is needed to seal a horcrux at all, since making a horcrux is a very evil thing, and it requires killing, and splitting of the soul....

I dunno about love being a charm to seal a hocrux... n wid voldy involved luv being da charm is very unlikely..... whatever the spell/incantation is it is least likely to contain love as an ingedient .... can't imagine voldy remotely thinking about luv in da first place


Exactly what I was saying to Mystica di.. But, did u read my later post when Mytica di asked me what the charm used to seal the crack? Well, if u didn't here it is..

Originally posted by achal

Originally posted by T.

Originally posted by achal

I dunno about this one either.. Are you sure that love is the charm needed to seal a horcrux.. I've never heard this before.. Maybe it isn't love that is needed to seal a horcrux at all, since making a horcrux is a very evil thing, and it requires killing, and splitting of the soul....


Exactly. But, as Slughorn said you need to also seal the horcrux into an object with a charm. What charm was performed on that night? you say there was a splitting of the soul. But, you agree with me that love was too pure a thing to seal anything as evil as a horcrux.

So, how did the horcrux get sealed in a SCAR, in a WOUND of all things?



We talked about the charm of love protecting Harry that night.. So, maybe it was the charm of love that sealed the scar, the horcrux, in the first place.. Other horcruxes might be sealed by something else, but if the scar is the horcrux, then maybe it is protected by the shield of love that is protecting Harry as well, since the scar is on his forehead.. Well, love is the most powerful charm in the world. and I bet whatever is used to seal the other horcruxes is not as powerful as love.. That makes it the evil that is in the scar (meaning Voldy's soul) against love, the most positive, powerful thing in the world.. Maybe that's why the scar doesn't have that much affect on Harry, and Voldy isn't able to possess Harry, like he was able to possess Ginny... It is meantioned on the book many times that love is most important, this mught be one of the most important causes of love in this book....


Originally posted by albusdumbledore

Originally posted by achal

 But why would he want to? It would be much easier to just kill than have a horcrux as an enemy.. If he had attempted to remove his soul first, then Harry might've done something to harm Voldy before he could do anything.. He couldn't just waste his time doing that.. I know that Voldy loves him too much, but he also knows that he has many other horcruxes.. He doesn't yet know that Harry already knows about his horcruxes, so hw wouldn't think twice about destroying one od his own horcruxes that was a threat to him, just for the sake of his other souls.. Why would he waste his time thinking about a soul of his that is within his enemy?

see we have already seen dat Harry is no match for Voldy. even in da graveyard we see dat Voldy is merely playin around wid Harry till he decides to kill him... Harry merely survives becoz of Priori Incantatem then. So if you say that Harry would have done sumthin to harm voldy that sounds a very indistinct possibility to me (or in dat case even to the most eternal optimist) Y i say this is becoz in da numerous times Harry has met Voldy it is always voldy who has harmed (or tried to) Harry never da other way round (except in da atrium of da MoM, where also he was able to possess Harry long enough to scare Dumbledore)

In my point of view, I'm saying that Voldy only found out that Harry's scar was his horcrux after/during the fifth book.. And the event u're talking about here is the fourth book.. At that time, why would Voldy attempt to take his own soul out of Harry if he doesn't even know about it! So, in this case, since there was no battle between Harry and Voldy in books sixth and fifth, it leaves us to the final battle, or the battle in the seventh book.. Now if what u're saying is true, then Voldy will easily be able to kill Harry, and the evil will win.. But what I'm saying is that by that time, Harry will become stronger (he better, otherwise he has no chance against Voldy), and in the process where Voldy tries to take his soul out, Harry might already do something to him... Is that too confusing, 'cuz I'm not very good at explaining things...Embarrassed

Originally posted by albusdumbledore

Originally posted by achal

ONLY Voldy's powers? Speaking parseltongue might be one of the power, but knowing how Voldy feels at a certain time, I don't think that can only be called a power transfered when a strong spell backfired.. It is something more, something that might've been influenced by a soul you have of someone else within u.. I agree that Harry doesn't have qualities of Voldy exactly, but if only scar is the horcrux, then it should have very less influence on u, like feeling what the other person is feeling, and having wierd visions.. Things that have to do with brain, since Harry's scar is nearest to his brain.. His bravery and his positiveness is in his heart, which has very less influence by his scar..

Very true but in da same argument it can also be said dat Voldy might have transferred a part of his powers to Harry wen his AV backfired the reasons for which I have already given above.

Well, I've already posted my opinion to this above...
 

Originally posted by albusdumbledore

Originally posted by achal

Well, I dunno about this one, but I guess because it was just a scar that was a horcrux, it had a lesser influence than having your whole body possesed by someone else..

in dat case Voldy must have even lesser control over Nagini becoz dere is no mention of Nagini even having dat (a scar) so 1 scar less control.... no scar even more less control... rite .....

No! I'm trying to say that scar is the horcrux, not Harry himself. So, having just a scar as a horcrux has a little influence than having Harry, himself, as a horcrux.. As for Nagini, there is not a scar on her that's the horcrux, she, herself is the horcrux, so that is different than having part of you that's a horcrux... It has less influence....



Edited by achal - 24 April 2006 at 6:54pm
achal IF-Dazzler
achal
achal

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Posts: 3043

Posted: 24 April 2006 at 7:03pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by lunza

Originally posted by achal

Originally posted by T.


Also, if Harry was Voldy's horcrux, it gave Voldy a better chance to get a body to move around in. He wouldn't need to find useless creatures such as Quirrell or depend on Wormtail to resurrect him until Harry's 4th year.

I have to disagree with you completely on this one.. Harry does know that part of Voldy's soul is within him, although he can't really point it out as being one of Voldy's horcrux.. Otherwise, how would Harry be able to sense what Voldemort is feeling, how would he be able to know when Voldy is near during his first years, would he be able to see all those visions during his fifth year? Remember during one of the visions, he was in shape of a snake, well that was Nagini, and since Nagini is Voldemort's horcrux too, they sort of have a connection, like Harry has a connection with Voldemort.. Also remember that he can also speak parseltongue, because of the part of Voldy's soul that is within him..

About Voldy being able to possess Harry, then like I said before, he didn't even know until the fifth book.. Remember in the fifth book Dumbledore ignored Harry all the time because he was afraid that Voldemort would be able to use Harry's scar as a way to get to Dumbledore! On only the fifth book, after something that I can't remember, was Voldy able to realize that the sacr on Harry's forehead connects his world and Harry's world, he had realized that Harry was a horcrux, and was trying to take advantage of that. And, well, Sirius died because of this too, since he gave Harry that vision, and made him go into the Department of Mysteries or something in Ministry of Magic.. And, about his possessing Wormtail instead of Harry, well he didn't know Harry was a horcrux until the fifth book, so how could he?
I think you are talking about the time when Mr . Weasley was attacked ,Yup, I was talking about that time.. thaz when he sensed the connection between him and harry ( remember? , snape tells that to harry during the first occlumency class)he just realised the connection but there was no mention of voldy realising that it is the "scar" that connects them ... But, how are they supposed to know whether Voldy realized that it was the scar connecting them or now.. Or maybe, if what u said is the case, then maybe Voldy thinks Harry is the horcrux, instead of just his scar..

but i DONT think voldy put two and two together at that time and concluded that harry is a horcrux at time itself .... otherwise he wouldnt have tried to kill harry at the Dept. of mysteries .... This goes back to where I think why Voldy wouldn't want to take his own soul out of Harry or why he wouldn't want to kill Harry. Harry is great threat to him, and so I don't think he would really care about his own soul as much, since he could create more horcruxes..   i think he mite have realised that harry is a horcrux when he tried to possess him ... the possession cant be compared to ginny's bcuz ginny said she couldnt remember a few things like , there were a few blank spaces in her memory but she dint say anything about the possession being painful , and harry found it very painful when Voldy tried to possess him , it mite be bcuz voldy tried to possess a body which already had his soul , so that wud be a total of three souls in one body , two pieces of voldy's and one harry's ... maybe there was some kind of repulsion during that possession bcuz he was trying to possess his own soul ! Yeah, possibly! If what Tejas bhaiyya and u said are added together about why Voldy didn't try to take his soul out of Harry, maybe because he only realized this after he tried to possess him.... A definite possibility..

on the other hand( i know i keep contradicting myself but i cant help it , this whole thing is so darn complicated ... i am tring to see it from different angles .... ) , it doesnt seem so impossible that voldy tried to kill one of his own horcruxes knowing that it is one bcuz ... well , he has other horcruxes right ? and he can make more ... Yup, exactly my point!

zara29 IF-Rockerz
zara29
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Posts: 6051

Posted: 24 April 2006 at 7:03pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by albusdumbledore

Originally posted by achal

Well, I dunno about this one, but I guess because it was just a scar that was a horcrux, it had a lesser influence than having your whole body possesed by someone else..

in dat case Voldy must have even lesser control over Nagini becoz dere is no mention of Nagini even having dat (a scar) so 1 scar less control.... no scar even more less control... rite .....

Originally posted by achal

No! I'm trying to say that scar is the horcrux, not Harry himself. So, having just a scar as a horcrux has a little influence than having Harry, himself, as a horcrux.. As for Nagini, there is not a scar on her that's the horcrux, she, herself is the horcrux, so that is different than having part of you that's a horcrux... It has less influence....

yup! achal..this is wat we two hav been saying again & again that its just Harry's scar that is the horcrux...his scar possessz voldy's soul...& harry has has his own soul too..therefre it has less influence upon him....also thats y...He has just few qualities of voldy...Embarrassed



Edited by zara29 - 24 April 2006 at 7:07pm
zara29 IF-Rockerz
zara29
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Posted: 24 April 2006 at 7:05pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by radz_2cool

Can iI join here Alia?? Embarrassed

u r most welcum radz_coolSmile

keep postingSmile

albusdumbledore IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 24 April 2006 at 10:38pm | IP Logged
nice point i must say achal.... but I still thin it doesn't fit that only a scar a part of da whole is da hocrux not da whole, sounds a bit absurd to me. I mean because that is sumthin we have not seen before....
So it is a bit difficult to belive.

tejas

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