hi, i am joining in. i am all 4 harry-hermione.i think ron and hermione looks obvious and jkr is used to all twists and turns.she will never pair herms with ron. i have copied an essay from pumpkin pie's army forum.hope all h/hr shippers will love it. 👏
Why H/Hr?
There are many reasons for this ship I do explain some points which I think are important for it and why it is H/Hr in canon.
Respect
Its started all in PS/SS and went through this books like a red blinking line. Its rather interest how Hermione act in PS/SS.
Because somehow it did never change. I think we all know this famous "great wizard" speech by her to Harry here we see that Harry respect Hermione in the sameway because he react more like she is a better witch as he a wizard. I never saw such a moment with respect between R/Hr. I dont say there isnt respect but its much less that strong like between H/Hr.
In PS/SS we got the first taste how this trio might later argue. As Harry and Ron go for the midnight duel and meet Hermione in the common room its clear that she think Harry do the wrong thing. R/Hr are rather loud arguing without anyone who win and by H/Hr is it more an argument who dos the right thing though Harry knew its wrong. But still win over Hermione.
As it went to the PS/SS at the end its again interest that Ron react in way which show less respect for her. He ask if she is mad because she searched after wood but Harry was more impresed that she did listen to Prof. Sprout.
In COS its gos on its at the start as Harry get into the Knockturn alley he is very much pleased that Malfoy cant beat Hermione in classes. Comparing to Rons reaction to Hermiones knowledge is it exactly the opposite. Harry is impressed or proud that she know that much, Ron is annoyed in the first two books and this don't change in the three books later. Here we see a scene with the polyjuice potion first Ron do always interrupt Hermione in the sentence and don't let her speak out what he did already in PS/SS but Harry let her speak out. Now this scene as Hermione transforming was rather failing its again how Ron and Harry react. Ron is rather amused but Harry is serious and don't laugh about her. Its even interest that Ron is the one who want use Hermiones knowledge for his own homework something what we don't see by Harry.
In PoA its the big fights between H/Hr and R/Hr but again we see the different how its work. Ron do yell at Hermione and remind by every instance how cruel and not caring she is that's by H/Hr different Harry don't yell at her its rather quiet his reaction to that its Ron who act for him. Harry dont rub as by every chance Hermione under the nose.
And how different they end this fight is even interest. Harry comes right after he got his broom back to Hermione and seems be worry that she do to much. By Ron is it till there isn't any other way. He wait that long till the trio have to stay close for Hagrid. If not for Hagrid maybe they had never end this fight.
In GoF the whole unexpected task and the Yule ball show how less R/Hr respect each other. Ron don't respect Hermione decision to go with someone else than him. He think she is lying and has no date. At the Ball he show much more that he don't respect it. He say she would betray Harry and calls Viktor always Vicky. And between the lines its look as if he doubt that anyone would go out with her if not only to spy on Harry. He don't respect Hermione privacy about her relationship with Viktor. By Harry is it more like its her decision to do so and he has no problem with it because he trust her.
In OotP is it much more clear that there isn't that much respect between R/Hr as by H/Hr. There is no part in this book that Hermione get that angry with one off them as with Ron as he say the only time in this book his opinion. She tells him to shut up and that if they cant trust Dumbledore so they could nobody trust. I tell you why she is that angry with Ron at this point because he suggest to Harry he should stop his extra lessons with Snape. We all know that Hermione respect teachers and thinks high about them if they not teach devination and don't call Umbridge. So is it very high thinking of her that she want that Harry teach DaDa. Thats rather a big deal. Because that say she think very high about Harry and he might know it. Thats might be the reason why he want fit this picture but still don't work for it. There is the reason why Harry couldn't look into her eyes because of he didn't get the prefect badge or as he got a D.
Quiditch and Hermione
Now to this little point I start in PS/SS. Its IMO important that the only time Harry is nearly complete out of POV is as the second game is in this book. Its shows clearly that Hermione is absolute in this game though Neville, Ron and Malfoy and his two bodyguards are fighting right behind her. By the first game Harry wasn't complete out of the picture its still describe what he feels and what he dos from his POV. But by the second game isn't it that way its complete from a camera POV. Its important that Hermione has interest in Quiditch, she has even read a book about it. Between a book which is published by bloomsbury like fantastic beasts this one is connected to Hagrid.
In PoA she stated she would never miss a game and in OotP she missed one but one where Harry wasn't anymore Seeker. Its rules out that she is mainly interest in that game because of griffindor. If she did she didn't start to speak low about this game and its starts exactly as Ron want be in the team. She is right her happiness belong not if Ron save a goal or not. I wonder why she not said if the team lost or win, anyway because as long Harry got the snitch before the others score to much its all right. She did lose interest in quiditch in OotP though it was quiete possible before that to think she might be very interest in it.
Hermiones interest in connection to Harry.
I call it that way but Its more general as only her interest. In COS is she it who come to the idea to use the polyjuice potion. The question is why? She want do it because she want give Harry proof that he isn't the heir. Its to comparing with the article in OotP where Hermione again want that people believe Harry. The situation is to compare to Cos where the students avoid Harry like in OotP. In PoA is it strange that Hermione stand up against a teacher for the very first time and she do it later again by Snape. She don't like Trelawyn from that moment as she predict Harrys dead. Before that Hermione was sceptical but after Trelawyn start to tell Harry he is good as dead is Hermione suddenly more as just respectless to her. GoF its interest that her passion is the rights of elves why not anything else?
Rons weakness
After OotP we could believe there isn't anything what could let think he is the weak part of this trio. If you like you can add this to my little "Voldemort want create hate in Harry" theory because Ron could be a big part of it. I don't believe that Ron will become posed by Voldi but its quiet possible. In OotP was it more clear as ever that Ron don't has an own opinion. He is between Harrys opinion and Hermiones but he dont has an own. Thats the weak part of him to that comes Ron isn't special. Even now we get new characters is Ron still not special. Harry is the hero, Hermione the brain, Ginny the girl, Luna the strange girl, Neville is the clumsy one. Ron don't have his own special place even in classes we don't know if he has a subject where he is very well. Even Neville has one. Now Ron get the badge but still it isn't anymore special because Ron don't fit in this position like Hermione do. Ron is keeper though still he don't fit this position he is rather bad in it and now he won the cup is the king but his two friends aren't that happy like they were it as Harry won it. Keep in mind Harry might come back in the team in book 6 and get all fame again. After Sirius dead I get this feeling Voldemort will get the over hand in book6 and try more close people to Harry to use. Wormtail was Rons rat and he might know that Rons issue is to be not special. Voldemort need only get it that Ron is weak in that area and use it against the trio. I still dont believe this could happen but there is a possible its like my thinking about Hermione. I do think she is to often right so she have to be wrong in future. By Ron is it than that he isn't special everything he will do won't be special not as Weasley and not as Harrys friend. But if he change the sides than he is special as Weasley.
The list
Anyway now to my little things I did recognise in OotP. First my little favourite charts. Maybe you remember as I mentioned the way how Harry past the brainroom after Bellatrix and how I mentioned how different the injuring were by Harrys company.
Worst thing: Sirius died
Nearly worst: Hermione was attacked Harry thought she might be dead
Very Bad: Ron is hit by a curse with let him act weird.
bad: Ginny broke her ankle
not good: Neville nose is broken.
and at least: Luna is k.o.
Now how Harry past them in the Brainroom:
1: Luna
2:Ginny
3: Ron
4: Hermione
Now my last piece is how they say goodbye at the end of OotP:
1: Moody
2: Lupin
3: Mrs. Weasley
4: Hermione
If I remember right than its the first goodbye scene like that as Harry drive to Hogwarts:
Tonks, Lupin, Moody, Mr and Mrs Weasley and Sirius as dog.
If I may compare it now than its like that. Everytime if Harry leaves a place is the last person who said good by the one who is as closest to Harry. Like a favourite chart. But if it gos to hurting than is the one who was worst as closest to Harry. Like Sirius who died. IMO there is a reason why JKR write it like that IMO only to show subway where this people stay to Harry.
Love as mainplot
I'm so foolish to believe that Love is not the subplot. No I believe that love is the mainplot.
I need to explain. Before book5 I did say I don't expect much love in book5 and I was somehow right. Well, now I'm so sure that Love is the reason for this books. It is what JKR did say that the only magic she believes is Love and if we look close than is this serie all about love.
Mother love did save Harry,
friendship love keep him going,
father love give him hope.
But this father love and motherlove is away but somehow still there after book5 is fatherlove away, too. So He has only friendship love.
Now to my point. What has that to do with H/Hr? Everything. Harry had all this kind off love and couldn't kill Voldemort. I tell you why? Because Harry hadn't the greatest love. The only one who is that powerful and thats true love. Oh I know you will heartily disagree but I show you its in canon and not out off thin air.
QUOTE
OoTP,UK-Edition(B ), Chapter 37, Page 743:"There is a room in the DoM," interrupted Dumbledore," that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that you posses in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took you to save Sirius tonight. That power also saved you from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests. In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you."
Dumbledore speaks about love if you ask me. Love can kill you inside and that is worst as dead, Love can bring you to heaven though you still alive. Harrys love to Sirius did end Voldemorts to be in Harrys mind in the ministry. You know whats this remind me? Its the only time as Harry could end this dreams. Its as his mind did speak in Hermiones voice and makes him feel guilty. If you imagine that guilt create by Hermione could give him this strength, this power, what could love do?
Thats why Harry have to find love in book6. Because real love could be the weapon what let him kill Voldi in book7. Give him power which Voldi don't know and don't have. Love will win about hate thats why this books are there.
Now why it is Hermione and not Ginny? Ginny can't it be because she is pureblood. That have something to do with the plot, something to do with the incompleteness what will kill Voldi and not completeness what Voldi is searching for. Halfbloods and mudbloods are incomplete and in Voldis eyes not that high like purebloods. It would fit in the plot that the one who Voldi chose a halfblood kill him with the help of a mudblood. If Voldi had chose Neville than it were pureblood against him and Neville did kill Voldi maybe with add of another pureblood in that case Ginny. But the point is that Voldi himself chose the incompleteness and that rules Ginny out.
Dos that makes sense? For me dos make sense. But my little theories are insane, or?
Wait if thats true than is my theory about Voldi=hate/dark and Hermione=love/light right. Interest, isn't it?
If that is right than is Harrys greatest weakness against Voldemort hate.
He simply can't kill Voldemort if he stay there and feels hate in that moment it makes Harry weak and give Voldemort a chance to kill him. We saw it in occlumency that Harry was weak as he felt anger. And Voldemort is now successfully to create a tiny spot of hate in Harry heart and in book 6 will it be the case to kill this hate in Harry and that might be love from someone.
Miss Perfect or why Harry isn't suddenly that much interest in Cho?
My point is to show that in OotP are indeed hints which suggest that Harry is falling for Hermione, badly falling if not worst.
Well where do it start I suppose its really starts in the background in GoF but in OotP is it in the UK edition at page 602 but I come later to that back.
First I need you remind what kind of relationship which ends in true love we had or had an idea how JKR do work with it. Its Lily and James. This was borne from dislike by Lily and fancy by James in there fifth year. Problem for my case is that we don't have any couples in Harrys year like that. Hermione don't dislike Ron or Harry, Harry or Ron don't dislike Hermione. They aren't arrogant and not big headed. Only Malfoy is like that.
See our problem is complicate much more complicate as by L/J. By Hermione and Harry starts as friendship and not dislike. How I said already is it that they do love each other already in a friendship level. So there won't be a point by a crush where you see some one and falls for them. Here is it like a building up. There isn't really a change in this friendship nothing what would make them suspicious first. Its normal to think on the friend or to like each other so they won't recognise that they already beyond the line in some parts. At first not still its suddenly starts to hit them that they far to close to each other.
Thats difficult to write but JKR seems to do that very well because you can see on two pages where Harry lose his interest at Cho first as she blame Hermione than at the final of the Quiditch Harry don't feel not the same for her anymore his crush is dying down. Exactly at that page Harry and Hermione got there first Forrest adventure in this book.
Now lets look at Cho. She is really a poor girl because she had so much to suffer her first real boyfriend is dead. She isn't sure if she can like Harry like that but she want it and try it. But there are problems and that is at first Harry and as second Hermione. Harry isn't exactly that deeply crushed for that girl as in GoF its quiet different because in the meantime did things happen which may change his feelings and thats somehow Hermione.
In GoF she showed strength in her loyalty and solidarity which had impress Harry no doubt. He wasn't that much for her in PoA as she was it in GoF for him. She took that people blamed her and said she is a scarlet woman she still stood on his side never blamed him for that. At the first sight its what we expect from friends but still is that beyond friendship ability. She showed Harry a part of her character which is probably the most highest problem for Cho.
Every girl what Harry will fall for have to stand a comparing to Hermione and her strength she showed in GoF. Thats something what is a problem for Cho because she can't stand under this comparing. Hermione has deep caring, loyalty and solidarity ability which are very hard to compare with. Thats the issues for Cho she simple hasn't this. I don't say she don't care or isn't loyal. What I say is that she isn't that much behind Harry like Hermione.
Even it wasn't for Cedric it wouldn't work between Harry and Cho simply because of Hermione. Its what Harry thinks about her if you like his respect and his proudness about her smartness. Around Harrys feelings already a wall which not even himself get directly through but his action and behaviour show that since GoF Harry and Hermione starts to cross the line. Not obviously but still they cross the line.
I don't know if it was really already in GoF but I could swear that I read something the line that Harrys mind speaks in a familiar voice. It wasn't written Hermiones because he didn't know it there. My basis to believe that Harry starts to fall for Hermione in GoF in the background is the Yule Ball and the lake scene. I did already show what my thoughts are about that so I won't write it now.
Though the obvious and the strongest signs are at page 602 in OotP UK.
QUOTE
OotP,UK-Edition(B ), Chapter 30, Page 603: He also suspected that part of his mind-the part that often spoke often in Hermiones voice-now felt guilty on the occasions it strayed down the corridor ending in the black door, and sought to wake him before he could reach the journeys end
First Hermione was obviously successfully with her nagging because thats the very first time that Harry stop this dream by himself and he don't dream again till Voldi sent this little dream about Sirius. We see which power Hermione has about Harry. Not Dumbledore and Not Sirius brought him to that. It was Hermione who make Harry felt guilty. I could interpret this quote in a different way. This waking up is even to referring to Cho because one page later Harry don't feel like before for Cho and I could interpret it as a waking up to his own strange feelings for Hermione.
Its fact that if Harry fights with Hermione and even he is angry with her he still see that she mean it good or that she is on his side. Something what is amazing. If you are angry you don't admit that in your mind. Harry can't lie to her not I see in her eyes and tell her some lies. He don't cant tell her the true which might hurt her in her pride or in her believing in Harry.
He want stay as smart and somehow powerful in her sight and not weak. Thats behaviour which is beyond friendship. He need her advice, need to know she is with him. He never said a bad word that she was quiet often on the edge of tears in OotP. But it did annoying him by Cho. In OotP he don't say it that loud like in GoF that Hermione isn't that what Cho says to him. He never answered Hermiones question if he fancied Cho since 3th year. He avoid an answer. Through the OWLs he thinks quiet often at Hermione thats after page 602 so is the two adventures into the Forrest where we see that Harry has a Hermione-rescue-thing. He seized, grapped, pulled her aside or back on her feet's.
Cho looked perfect for Harry but she wasn't because she couldn't stand a comparing to Hermione. So she wasn't perfect.
A little quote I wanna add. Its a nice one:
Quote:
QUOTE
OotP, UK-Edition(B ),Chapter 30, page 599:said Hermione, allowing her teacup to jog around in neat little circles around Harrys
If he catch the snitch he want be happy. Just a thought.
Ginny
You know what I really miss by Ginny? Its that she never show any concern about Harrys life. Well, I need to explain: We are debating here that Hermione is arguing with Harry about Sirius and this dream. Some say its cruel other say its reasonable. That Ginny is directly there and is absolute for Harry?! Now comes the point what I miss is that Ginny never asks or doubt that Harry could be wrong. Hermione is arguing with Harry because he want without to think twice bring himself into danger to rescue Sirius. The point is that Hermione don't want that he bring his own life in danger thats why she don't shut up even he is yelling and nearly shaking her. At the other hand Harry need her advice, need to know she is with him thats clearly there in that situation because Harry don't turns around and say to Ron well you help me and gos. He never did that. So he need her advice, need to know she is at his side before that he don't move or act.
Quote:
QUOTE
OotP, UK-Edition(B ), Chapter32, page648: "Never you mind," said Harry roughly. Ginny raised her eyebrows. "there's no need to take that tone with me," she said coolly, "I was only wondering whether I could help." "Well, you can't" said Harry shortly. "you're being rather rude, you know," said Luna serenely. Harry swore and turned away. The very last thing he wanted now was a conversation with Luna Lovegood. "Wait," said Hermione suddenly. "Wait...Harry, they can help."
Its not Ginny advice its Hermiones what let Harry act. She wasn't cruel she was simply honest and somehow the reason something what Ron couldn't do all what he did was to go with Harry rather as with Hermione but still Harry didn't turn away because somehow he needed some doubts about his dream.
If I may compare Ginny and her help or words in the library are like Lunas words at the end about deaths. Ginny don't steps out from this people around Harry its Hermione who stand there and has doubts and do tell him it. She is standing clearly out like some light a guardian light. Its much more to see in Umbridges room that only Hermione speaks only she try to stop Umbridge. Its not Neville, Ron, Luna and Ginny. All people are standing there and don't do something. Again in DoM its again Hermione who speaks to Harry hold him back from the veil. Nobody tried this not Neville, Ron, Luna and Ginny.
I hope I can make it clear. Its Hermione who gos her own way to save people she don't copy people she don't act like someone else she is undoubtfully Hermione. She dos what she think is logical and the best for other people in that case Harry. We know she wanted to write Harry everything she did know only Dumbledore could stop her. What I mean to say is that Hermione Granger is undoubtedly someone who is standing out from the people around Harry. She do tell him things with aren't always easy, she can as the only person in that situation as Harry was yelling at her bring her point to him tell him what she mean. Not Ron, Ginny, Luna or Neville can that. You can count on it that in book 6 Harry will much more turn to her and talk with her about his problems because he can count on her, count that she will tell him the true, tell him that what isn't easy but right.
By Ginny I never saw this not once all what she did was be a friend but not a friend who can tell him such stuff, only someone who tells him something what is easy.
See my path the question whats right and easy. If I may compare: Hermione is the right and Ginny the easy one.
What we know about Hermione is that she is maybe the most interfering girl Harry has ever meet. If you ask me Harry need someone like that if it not her who get down his wall or get through him than it can nobody. Simply because Hermione is stubborn and won't give up before she get what she want. What I read in OotP is that she got to him through even he didn't agree with her she was still right. By the way about Ginny understand Harry better you need reed the whole scene after Ginny told Harry that he isn't under Voldis control its say that Hermione reminds him he can't disappear from Hogwarts. Now my point after Ginny told him he can't be under Voldis control he still think about the possible so he don't believe her complete but after Hermione reminds him he can't disappear he don't think twice about the possible he wasn't at hogwarts. So who did a better job?
Harrys view
Everybody know this thing with Harry's glasses, right! I mean JKR play really often with that image. But its change from book to book. First in PS/SS Harrys glasses aren't in the best form in the movie Hermione repair his glasses. Its interest. he got a better view.
In COS his glasses again broken and as he meet in the Daigon Alley Hermione she repair his glasses again (in movie). This Time he meet her alone without Ron and she tell him that she was worry. This show how deep she care for him. You know he see it now clearly for him.
Now POA she use a spell that he can see through his glasses even its rain like mad. This show Harry begins to see things better and somehow he see it better if you read this book. Maybe that show how much Hermione do for him.
The last one GoF here she don't use a spell not really. This Time is it different its nothing really with his glasses more with his view. I mean it is the Yule Ball. You know first he don't know that this pretty girl is Hermione. He need to look twice as if his eyes don't work right. its the first Time that he see her really not as a friend as a girl. Than this nice scene where Hermione teach Krum to say her name right. Remember how that look like?
QUOTE
QUOTE
GoF, UK-Edition(B ), Chapter23, page 457:
"Her-my-oh-nee," she said, slowly and clear. "Herm-own-ninny" "Close enough," she said, catching Harry's eye and grinning.
Do you know how that sound? Do you?! I explain: She teach someone to say her name right but if you see it different you could say she show who she really is! Make that sense? All right, we know about her that she is normally a bookworm or that she isn't that typical girl but there she show that she is a girl more a young woman. And somehow Harry get it but not complete better he is like Krum close enough but not there.
QUOTE
OotP, UK-Edition(B ), Chapter 18,
page 336 : "Hermione did it" said Harry. He puffed out his wand, tapped his glasses and said, "Impervious!"
Interest how well he was listening and its 2 years ago. What dos that say? Well, Harry do it this time himself so he see now clearer because he open up his mind and how strange only some pages later Harry starts to hear Hermiones voice in his mind and the DA is for him very important and it makes him happy something what was Hermiones idea.
Hermione is the light and Voldi is the dark.
Its very interest how much Hermione is compared in a strange way to Riddle/Voldemort. First my list again:
PS/SS: Hermione use Harrys wand to open up a door
COS: Riddle take away Harrys wand to kill Harry.
POA: Hermione use a Timeturner to rescue together with Harry Sirius and this Hippogriff
GoF: MEM use a Portkey to bring Harry to Voldemort so he can kill him.
Now this quote:
QUOTE
QUOTE
quote:
COS, UK-Edition (, Chapter17, page 353: Brilliant," he said softly," Of course, he was probably the most brilliant student Hogwarts has ever seen."
Now to Hermione:
QUOTE
QUOTE
quote:
POA , UK-Edition (B ), Chapter17, page372: "you're the cleverst witch of your age Ive ever met, Hermione" .
Interest or not interest? This is really a strange path. I mean this comparing between this two and comparing between Harry and Riddle. I ask my self if that show how important Hermione may be
I don't think this a sign that Hermione will end up like Voldi. I more see that Hermione is exactly opposite of Riddle. He is the dark and she the light. Maybe Harry can voldi only kill with Hermione on his side. Only a thought. If Harry can be compare to Voldie in power and looking, Hermione is that than too in knowledge and power than this say Hermione and Harry together will be much more powerful as Voldie. In POA we did see how well they can work together without even to speak.
In OotP:
QUOTE
OotP, UK-Edition(B ), Chapter19, Page 353: "The Death Eaters scars. Voldemort touches one of them, and all their scars burn, and they know they've got to join him." "Well...yes," said Hermione quietly, "that is where I got the idea ...but you'll notice I decided to engrave the date on bits of metal rather than on our members skin."
So Hermione had the idea to DA and its awule opposite to the death eaters and later we see its really so. Something more is that Harry hear Hermiones voice like as if its the good side of his mind and Voldis as if its the bad side of his mind.
See Hermione is Harrys light and he will need her badly very badly. Especially her love.
I have to add something and thats about Harry and not beloved. Today I was swimming and you know what I did realise? That Harry or people like him have never in there life something like that. They never were in a pool and played with there parents and all this close stuff you have. Its right Harry has great friends and The Weasley see in him a eight brother but the point is what dos he feel. I know even if you are so close to your friends and there family you never feel like with your own family. The point is Harry need someone who loves him and who he can love back. You know what love dos? Its give you strength and power and hope. Its unbelievable what love can do if you really feel it.
Thats why I have this signature it is true the greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and to beloved in return and over all JKR dos believe only in the magic of love so she won't write a story about easy love it will be difficult and much more intense as we can expect by now.
This post has been edited by phoenixwriter: Aug 2 2003, 01:54 AM
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fatpigslim1989 May 12 2004, 04:11 AM Post #2
ickle firstie
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Excellent! Very well said. Only thing is that sometimes it's a little frustrating to have to rearrange the words myself to understand what you're saying as there are some broken sentences here and there.
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PhoenixWriter May 12 2004, 09:48 AM Post #3
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QUOTE (fatpigslim1989)
Excellent! Very well said. Only thing is that sometimes it's a little frustrating to have to rearrange the words myself to understand what you're saying as there are some broken sentences here and there.
Well, I know it is not very readable but you must know this essay was posted as one of the first essay's in the PA. You see it was posted August 2nd at that time I was just 4 months in this fandom and I was not used to write in english. I did plan a time ago to edit this and repost it since there some nice thoughts and ideas in it which I like to write as single essays.
This say I plan essay's about: Respect, Quidditch and Hermione, Ron's weakness, Love as mainplot (though I just finished Fundamentals of Love so I have covered this), Miss Perfect or why Harry isn't suddenly that much interest in Cho?. But I will for sure write one about Light against Dark this is very important to me. I will see how I can manage it with my time so far.
Through the time my view has changed in many parts. Somethings I see more clear others I just did drop like this about Harry's view this is only to prove if I insert the movies something I do not want. I was at this time more comfortable with it but now no longer. This things aren't the best I ever wrote that for sure. Its not even a real essay, just thoughts. Not really thought out anyway. Some have potential esp. the one about Hermione being the light others are just not even debateable.
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HarmonyForever
Our Spirit Will Never Be Broken ~ UK after Terror Attacks July 2005
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born_dancer May 12 2004, 04:08 PM Post #4
Suffers from Orlandoage...no known cure...nor does she want one
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QUOTE
OoTP,UK-Edition(B ), Chapter 37, Page 743:"There is a room in the DoM," interrupted Dumbledore," that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that you posses in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took you to save Sirius tonight. That power also saved you from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests. In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you."
I believe Dumbledore is speaking about love, as well. I thoroughly believe that love is what will save Harry (and the world) in the end.
Very interesting how DD says "it was your heart that saved you"...wasn't it Hermione that yanked Harry out of his hypnotized stupor when they all went into that room with the veil? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I could swear...
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You stole my story...
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romulus lupin May 12 2004, 06:56 PM Post #5
Romulus Lupin
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This is very interesting, PW (and I am now wondering why I had missed out on this when it was first posted) ... or is my short term memory failing?
There are so many things that I want to explore further in your very interesting essay, but one point is so intriguing:
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... This is really a strange path. I mean this comparing between this two and comparing between Harry and Riddle. I ask my self if that show how important Hermione may be
I don't think this a sign that Hermione will end up like Voldi. I more see that Hermione is exactly opposite of Riddle. He is the dark and she the light. Maybe Harry can voldi only kill with Hermione on his side. Only a thought. If Harry can be compare to Voldie in power and looking, Hermione is that than too in knowledge and power than this say Hermione and Harry together will be much more powerful as Voldie.
It brings back something that I was playing around with in March last year when I was putting together my first real multi-chapter fic, "Epiphanies":
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Epiphanies, Chapter 5, Expectations and Realizations
And [Harry] suddenly wondered if, for some obscure reason, Voldemort had made a fatal mistake … that it wasn't him, that it wasn't Harry Potter, The Boy-Who-Lived, who was the real threat to his mad schemes of domination, but the girl who was walking beside him … the one, the only, Hermione Granger.
The thought brought a smile to his lips … a smile that soon made its way to his eyes, and the shadow of gloom lifted a bit more from his shoulders. Wouldn't it be ironic, he thought … wouldn't it be supremely hilarious if, after all the effort, all the suffering and pain that he had caused in the past four years in his insane efforts to kill The Boy-Who-Defeated-Him, Voldemort's real enemy was the slim, petite girl with bushy brown hair walking beside him?
From out of nowhere, an errant memory struck … something in one of the pocketbooks that Dudley never read, thrown into the room he occupied in the summers but which had been Dudley's storeroom … given as a gift by some unknowing and unknown benefactor … something about the deepest, darkest secret in the universe … what was it? Oh yes … that was it …
"It is something even the Masters don't reveal about the inner nature of the secret heart of the universe … The deepest darkest secret of all that the Force lets you see …
"The universe has a sense of humor."
I am suddenly wondering if it isn't just the "universe" which has a sense of humor ... I wonder whether JKR herself is playing with our heads -- and that in the end, as you pointed out, Hermione is "Harry's light" and that she (and her love for Harry) is the ultimate secret that will defeat the Dark Lord.
There may be those who will say that this couldn't be -- since it is Harry who, as the Prophecy said, "... has a power the Dark Lord knows not."
I have raised the point, in other threads, that while Harry is the one with the "power," he still doesn't know what it is, or even how to use it.
Could it be that, in finally learning and understanding what his feelings and 'connection' is to Hermione, that he will finally learn and understand what "the power the Dark Lord knows not" is?
Thank you for a most insightful essay.
gil
This post has been edited by romulus lupin: May 12 2004, 06:58 PM
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PhoenixWriter May 13 2004, 10:12 AM Post #6
Oracle said: You'll be blamed
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QUOTE (Phoenixwriter)
Probably, no very much you will think I'm nuts to think that line. But there was always something about the prophecy what I just didn't get. True be told I was searching, searching after a twist something anything what let us believe the power is only to be find in Harry. But this is in fact (so do I think) wrong. The reason I think so is the same reason why Voldemort did chose Harry and the same reason why in PoA did happen a Time-Travel.
To answer the twist PoA is indeed very helpfuly, very helpfuly esp the Time Turner scene. It was bound to happen, Harry and Hermione were bound to rescue Sirius and Buckbeak. The point, the very point is that they were bound just like that wormtail did make the new prophecy true all this things were bound to happen. Because one, just one person did all this start: Tom Riddle and Trelaweny.
For short if Voldemort will fall then because himself, just because of his own doing.
'The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches . . . born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies . . . and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not . . . and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives . . . the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies . . .'
Emphasis is mine. Right, the Power I say this can being everything and anything. But till now people did think its Love. Good, this is indeed a good thought but how should that work? A spell, a curse? Anything? I doubt this now sure I can be wrong and I dearly, I so dearly hope I'm wrong but this make's to much sense.
It is said that the Dark Lord dos not know and not have such power like Harry. What could this be? Tom Riddle wasn't all his life loved by someone, never. He don't has nor ever had such a person not that he knew. Nobody loved him so much to die for him. On the contrary we have Harry who is surounded by people who love him dearly. And if you believe it or not because Voldemort is making Harry's life to hell people love Harry even more. Are ready to die for him no matter what come's.
Lily did know that Voldemort just wanted Harry, just wanted him but not her. She knew if she just walked away nothing did happen to her because Voldemort wanted to kill Harry but instead she stayed and pleaded, begged for Harry's life and even said he can her kill but not her son. This sacrifice was a result of the prophecy, this deep love was a result of this. Another woman hadn't known what hit her and her child if Voldemort was standing there. She couldn't have stand there and to beg for her baby but for her own life because she hadn't known he wanted to kill that child.
Harry might be a powerful wizard, he might be great one but not greater as Dumbledore and most likely we won't ever see Harry being more powerful as Dumbledore. Said this what is Harry's power? What is it? In all books started from book1 till 5 there were in all kind, in all ways someone who loved Harry.
And thats the key. Harry don't have a special power from himself its a power which was created by Voldemort, Trelawney or better because of them it did increase.
I wondered so long nearly one year why if Harry was supposed to have such power was it Lily and her love who did save him, why was Voldemort there for the first time wounded on the ground if Harry was suppose to have that power?
Now I find, I think I find the answer. In fact it was Sienna's essay in the PA about Jung what made me realise it. You need to know my mind works in very strange ways. Right, I say the power which Harry has, which LV don't know and not has is that someone love's him. Love's Harry that purely, that entirely this one would die for him, do everything for him.
Harry did met this one because, yes because of Voldemort. Harry did met her on the same day as his parents, as Lily made her sacrifice. Yeah, I'm speaking of Hermione. She is the power which Harry has. And an insane theory, now is it?
It might be since you will wonder why should Hermione do something what Lily, Harry's mother, not could? There is a different a very important different. A mother dos naturely love her child, its instinct. Say's its not chosen. But Hermione isn't bound to love Harry but she chose to love him. This is and I think its like that a greater love, more pure.
There it ends the circle, now it is answered why I always thought, no felt that Hermione might die in the end. My believe in this is now stronger as ever and I may say some movie trailer let me fear that I might be right in the end.
As addition to this above we do know nobody did ever love Riidle/Voldemort. He might be able and feel somekind of love as he was younger, very young but I doubt he knows how it feels to beloved. In my sig at Cos-Forum I have written:
The Greatest thing you'll ever learn is to Love and just to be loved in return
Says it dos nothing if you might feel love, you might be able and love power, love being good in school this are feelings too. But if you don't know how it feels to be beloved then truly something is failing. Voldemort dos not know it, a power he dos not know. This clearly indicate it must be the power of "beloved". In every book, every single book we see how the power, exactly this power did rescue Harry. Just look back, in PS/SS it was Lily's love which did still run through Harry's veins.
COS Harry's faith in Dumbledore and Dumbledore's faith, love in Harry. PoA Love between Harry and Sirius. GoF Love between Harry's parents and him. OotP again Sirius.
It was said A power he dos not know says Voldemort as old he is he never did know it and truly he never knew how it is to beloved. The thing is Harry might search in book6 after a spell, after this power in himself but just as it is to late in book7 where we as reader think now Harry will die we realise its not Harry, it is someone who love's him that deeply.
Thank you gil though I still think its not the best I have done. Well, this are posts from Cos-Forum before OotP came out everything regarding OotP I just did add though I just have rewrite it. By time I will do that, for sure.
It is said that the Dark Lord dos not know and not have such power like Harry. What could this be?
I'm borrowing a line from Jung's Mysterium coniunctionis, "The Personification of the Opposites".
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Only the 'light which the darkness comprehendeth not' can illuminate the darkness. Everything that the darkness thinks, grasps and comprehends by itself is dark; therefore it is illuminated only by what, to it, is unexpected, unwanted and incomprehensible.
Can one possibly hypothesize then that in order for Harry (and possibly Tom as well) to vanquish the Dark Lord, does he need to "illuminate" him? Illuminate Tom to prevail over his darkness? His Shadow?
Of course, if it's Tom that's also a factor in this equation... perhaps it isn't so much Harry. I have wondered about this line in the prophecy...
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and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives
Jung defined "the other" as the perfected human spirit. The end result of the Alchemical Opus transmutation. Perhaps the other IS "either" and "neither". The union between the split persona of Harry and Tom? Thus the split persona will "die", to recreate a new enlightened human spirit? The Other is The One. The united Harry-Tom light? It's only when the light of Harry can unite with the enlightened Tom that the Dark Lord can be "vanquished"? Without the "Dark" there is only the Lord. "Expecto patronum" (aka, Look to the father ... or the Father?) indeed.
Hence, I do think the prophecy is actually describing Harry's own path towards enlightenment, not so much the removal of this obstacle as we see in this external villain Voldemort (although that's part of it). A spiritual path that just so happens to also include Tom Riddle (and, as you speculate PW, possibly also Hermione). The light is Hermione. That which is dark that needs to be illuminated is Tom and through him Harry. I do think Hermione could be the light for both Harry and Tom, thus allowing both to turn to and into the light and thus fulfill the prophecy.
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A mother dos naturely love her child, its instinct.
If this is the case, that would be true for Mrs. Riddle too, wouldn't it? I won't go off on a wild tangent, but I've been kicking around some specs with a few other folks... we believe that Mrs. Riddle might have been murdered. By the very same folks that planted all this Heir of Slytherin - this Der Wille zur Macht, as Nietzche would say - ideas into his head. Of course, that's another subject entirely.
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He might be able and feel somekind of love as he was younger, very young but I doubt he knows how it feels to beloved.
Point is, I do think the above about Tom's mother also strengthens that idea (one JKR supports) that no one is born evil. Tom was not born evil, he became that way. He wasn't born on the pathway to Voldemort. He had love, but it was lost (or taken from him?)... and he became consumed by darkness. Consumed by his Voldemort-Shadow. Thus, the reason why he doesn't understand love. He not only had this love stolen from him at a very young age, he was deprived from learning about it via various facets. Through this, he was forged to shun it. However, it's possible, some part of him (the Tom part?) could still desire it, desire to understand it... even if it means his own undoing. The power of it he's repeatedly underestimated to an exceedingly high cost... something he may finally decide he no longer wants to do. However, in order to understand this power, he would have to let it in to some extent even if it is "unexpected, unwanted and incomprehensible".
Tom - as we saw even with his 16 yr old self - has been curious how and why a baby could defeat the great Dark Lord Voldemort. What is that old agage? Curiousity killed the cat?... Or more appropriately, Curiosity "vanquishes" the darkness of the "Dark" Lord?
harry-hermione 4ever.
dylan.
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