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Poll Question: Is Indian classical music less popular as it is not visually appealing

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26 [78.79%]
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chatbuster IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 26 March 2006 at 10:16am | IP Logged

Originally posted by sareg

Ok here is the disconnect we have

Hindi film music or any regional film music is popular, most of the leading singers in either hindi and regional film music are classically trained

First if these singers/MD's are used as mouthpeices rather than the elite in the classical world that changes a outlook of a younger generation

many of our superhits are based upon classical stuff, if
sorry giggles ji I know you promised to keep HR out of this, but on the positive side, but he is a marketing gur in this stuff

Suppose singers/MD such as Shreya/Sonu/Udit/KK/HR/ARR/AS/ID/Shantanu are used this is a very easy sell
Just my POV

good point! but what made these people popular in the first place? i think it was a combination of "face" (personality, visual factors) and "content". i am not sure they wld remain as popular if they removed the personality and the visual effects they bring... Which (if true) means it still comes down to the role visual factors play in today's world... 

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Posted: 26 March 2006 at 10:19am | IP Logged
Originally posted by madhavir108


Note my comments in red.. 

Originally posted by chatbuster


great post!!! some questions/ comments:

1. when we talk about DU, i remember folks were always into looking "cool". do we have more of that now?

well, in anygeneration looking 'cool' is important, but then again its a mtter of perception... thats y i liked RDB.. each character luked so 'cool'..they made kurtas luk funky...they made jean jackets which were dyin out of style luk classy again..i think its totally relative to wat is cool n wat is not..

2. i am not sure some regions were ever that much into classical music. when we bemoan the loss of our classical music culture, are we talking abt regions where it was previously strong? that wld of course mean more.

i still think that in most parts of india, classical music existed..in the hindustani alaaps to the carnatic gamakams, in the gujrati bhajans to the bengali folk, there has always been an essence of classical music.. in some regions proliferation of classical music has been more than others, but i think its an overall picture..in some parts of india, classical music is still given a lot of importance, girls particularly between ages of 5 - 13 are sent for music classes for a yr or 2 (like myself) n then its upto them if they wanna continue..

3. i think TV has of course changed the way we look at the world. RELATIVELY-SPEAKING (and pls note the caps here, so pls no jagda on this), it is rather boring to have to only listen- whether it's a speech or a song. Even when we see a speaker, we want more than just the content or the ability to see the speaker. We want animation, hand movements, eye contact, connection with the audience. When we have all that, we feel more involved. Classical music has a hard time offering all of that visual animation.

I think this is a matter of opinion... take any of the current concerts..say an A R Rahman concert... the younger kids might dance away to chaiya chaiya but the older people prefer sitting and listen to yeh haseen vadiyan..just because they are sitting down there, doesnt mean they ont get the connection or watever... i agree visual appeal matters, but as i have mentioned before classical music is so pure that its beyond all this... and if people cant respect it, its their loss completely

4. i think classical music in general has always had only a niche following. nothing wrong with that. most of us want our food served to us on a platter, similarly for music which is designed to appeal to the masses who dont have to bother to train.

true, but off late there has been an insult to classical music claiming it to be boring and pointless..when the fact is STILL a lot of hindi songs are based on classical songs...be it HR's songs, ID's songs or ARR's songs..they all have a classical touch to it.. so if u r talking about niche followin.. i think tat is only for hardcore..but if u like any of the current songs.. u shuld like classical music too !

5. there is still a lot to feel happy about with the influence of visual factors. case in point is the Nixon- Kennedy Pres debate. Based on folk lore, if you heard it, u'd have thot that Nixon had won. if you saw it on TV, u'd have thot that Kennedy won. With visuals, u get the total "picture" and i do not see anything wrong with having more information.

correct me if i am not wrong, the reason kennedy won was because he had a smile and a good personality to go with it.. see any of the classical singers, the glow they have on their face, its TREMENDOUS.. when Pt. Jasraj sings, its like he is being elevated and singing..they smile when its needed, they cringe in agony and they go in complete bliss when its singing about God.. if that is nto visual appeal what is it ?!

6. there is something to be said for making things user-friendly. if we are denouncing folks for being uncultured and for not liking classical music, its like attacking a customer for not liking our product. whose fault is that? and if you do want to reach that customer, who has the onus- the producer or the customer?

hehe, i kno from my thread it souns like i am againt ppl who dont like classical but thats not true.. bt i am against people who disrespect classical music... we all like classical music without realising it.. if we dont like classical music the sound track of HDDCS would never be a hit, Devdas wouldnt be a hit and Roja DEF. wouldnt be a hit! Tere Naam is supposed to be the largest music album sold in india..70 lakhs in first 6 months..it is loosely based on classical stuff... so people do appreciate it.. its just tat they dont realise what they are appreciating ! who are we to call what is cultured and what is not!

7. i think we always gain by being open and by taking in positive points from other cultures. for those who say that western music is vulgar etc., perhaps that's the case with some of the music. But there is a lot which is perhaps as, if not more, refined than what we have.

western music isnt vulgar to say the least.. just because it uses foul words doesnt make it vulgar or watever.. and not for all songs atleast...  there is a lot of great western music. but do people listen to it ?! most youth today (includin myself) would prefer a Britney spears over an Eva Cassidy... Eminimen over Robbie Williams... so thats where the 'bad' things start.. we have our own culture, to take the good from the west and use it, its fine.. actly its great.. coz it adds more zing to wat we r.. western influences in our songs today are really nice... one love by shaan was great, right here right now by ab is awesome, u n i in hum tum was good, dhoom dhoom by tata young were good... the use of english is songs like sara jahan from ek khiladi ek hasina make it very funky..so english music doesnt even come into picture...

Overall, my answer to your question would be Yes- Indian classical music is less popular as it is not visually appealing. but of course that's a generalization and there is some music that is so appealing that it transcends the visual factors for some of us sometimes.




ClapClapClapi agree with you madhavi didi!!!!
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Posted: 26 March 2006 at 10:24am | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by sareg

Ok here is the disconnect we have

Hindi film music or any regional film music is popular, most of the leading singers in either hindi and regional film music are classically trained

First if these singers/MD's are used as mouthpeices rather than the elite in the classical world that changes a outlook of a younger generation

many of our superhits are based upon classical stuff, if
sorry giggles ji I know you promised to keep HR out of this, but on the positive side, but he is a marketing gur in this stuff

Suppose singers/MD such as Shreya/Sonu/Udit/KK/HR/ARR/AS/ID/Shantanu are used this is a very easy sell
Just my POV

good point! but what made these people popular in the first place? i think it was a combination of "face" (personality, visual factors) and "content". i am not sure they wld remain as popular if they removed the personality and the visual effects they bring... Which (if true) means it still comes down to the role visual factors play in today's world... 



Visual factors matter a lot.. esp thru media.. as giggles ji told about her daughter thinkin tat Kishore da sounded like Debo !! thats hilarious.. shwoin tat media plays such a great role..

its this same media tat can change the view people have towards classicl music... morning raga showed classical music in a totally diff light.. n it was a good thing... see hema, the fact tat he learnt classical music helped him handle tat preyasi so well.... do u think twinkle or rajeev could have handled tat ?! i doubt it..they r good singers.. but to stay breathless for 15 seconds ??!

visual factors come into play to promote it, and thts y i keep stressin tat more movies like morning raga have to be made.. tell ppl tat classical music isnt so bad... in telugu industry, a recent movie shri ramadasu, which has a lot of classical songs, it became a huge hit.. y.. coz they cashed in on visual factors.. they used a media to promote classicla music.. it works..
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Posted: 26 March 2006 at 10:30am | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by sareg

Ok here is the disconnect we have

Hindi film music or any regional film music is popular, most of the leading singers in either hindi and regional film music are classically trained

First if these singers/MD's are used as mouthpeices rather than the elite in the classical world that changes a outlook of a younger generation

many of our superhits are based upon classical stuff, if
sorry giggles ji I know you promised to keep HR out of this, but on the positive side, but he is a marketing gur in this stuff

Suppose singers/MD such as Shreya/Sonu/Udit/KK/HR/ARR/AS/ID/Shantanu are used this is a very easy sell
Just my POV

good point! but what made these people popular in the first place? i think it was a combination of "face" (personality, visual factors) and "content". i am not sure they wld remain as popular if they removed the personality and the visual effects they bring... Which (if true) means it still comes down to the role visual factors play in today's world... 

Very true, I think it is an accepted fact the visuals of classical singing do not help in making it popular, now what visuals are possible and I addressing that point

A visual of Sonu/ID/HR/ARR speaking about classical or producing/singing classical tunes would certainly help

chatbuster IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 26 March 2006 at 11:10am | IP Logged

Originally posted by sweety001

Originally posted by madhavir108


Note my comments in red.. 

Originally posted by chatbuster


great post!!! some questions/ comments:

1. when we talk about DU, i remember folks were always into looking "cool". do we have more of that now?

well, in anygeneration looking 'cool' is important, but then again its a mtter of perception... thats y i liked RDB.. each character luked so 'cool'..they made kurtas luk funky...they made jean jackets which were dyin out of style luk classy again..i think its totally relative to wat is cool n wat is not..

2. i am not sure some regions were ever that much into classical music. when we bemoan the loss of our classical music culture, are we talking abt regions where it was previously strong? that wld of course mean more.

i still think that in most parts of india, classical music existed..in the hindustani alaaps to the carnatic gamakams, in the gujrati bhajans to the bengali folk, there has always been an essence of classical music.. in some regions proliferation of classical music has been more than others, but i think its an overall picture..in some parts of india, classical music is still given a lot of importance, girls particularly between ages of 5 - 13 are sent for music classes for a yr or 2 (like myself) n then its upto them if they wanna continue..

3. i think TV has of course changed the way we look at the world. RELATIVELY-SPEAKING (and pls note the caps here, so pls no jagda on this), it is rather boring to have to only listen- whether it's a speech or a song. Even when we see a speaker, we want more than just the content or the ability to see the speaker. We want animation, hand movements, eye contact, connection with the audience. When we have all that, we feel more involved. Classical music has a hard time offering all of that visual animation.

I think this is a matter of opinion... take any of the current concerts..say an A R Rahman concert... the younger kids might dance away to chaiya chaiya but the older people prefer sitting and listen to yeh haseen vadiyan..just because they are sitting down there, doesnt mean they ont get the connection or watever... i agree visual appeal matters, but as i have mentioned before classical music is so pure that its beyond all this... and if people cant respect it, its their loss completely

4. i think classical music in general has always had only a niche following. nothing wrong with that. most of us want our food served to us on a platter, similarly for music which is designed to appeal to the masses who dont have to bother to train.

true, but off late there has been an insult to classical music claiming it to be boring and pointless..when the fact is STILL a lot of hindi songs are based on classical songs...be it HR's songs, ID's songs or ARR's songs..they all have a classical touch to it.. so if u r talking about niche followin.. i think tat is only for hardcore..but if u like any of the current songs.. u shuld like classical music too !

5. there is still a lot to feel happy about with the influence of visual factors. case in point is the Nixon- Kennedy Pres debate. Based on folk lore, if you heard it, u'd have thot that Nixon had won. if you saw it on TV, u'd have thot that Kennedy won. With visuals, u get the total "picture" and i do not see anything wrong with having more information.

correct me if i am not wrong, the reason kennedy won was because he had a smile and a good personality to go with it.. see any of the classical singers, the glow they have on their face, its TREMENDOUS.. when Pt. Jasraj sings, its like he is being elevated and singing..they smile when its needed, they cringe in agony and they go in complete bliss when its singing about God.. if that is nto visual appeal what is it ?!

6. there is something to be said for making things user-friendly. if we are denouncing folks for being uncultured and for not liking classical music, its like attacking a customer for not liking our product. whose fault is that? and if you do want to reach that customer, who has the onus- the producer or the customer?

hehe, i kno from my thread it souns like i am againt ppl who dont like classical but thats not true.. bt i am against people who disrespect classical music... we all like classical music without realising it.. if we dont like classical music the sound track of HDDCS would never be a hit, Devdas wouldnt be a hit and Roja DEF. wouldnt be a hit! Tere Naam is supposed to be the largest music album sold in india..70 lakhs in first 6 months..it is loosely based on classical stuff... so people do appreciate it.. its just tat they dont realise what they are appreciating ! who are we to call what is cultured and what is not!

7. i think we always gain by being open and by taking in positive points from other cultures. for those who say that western music is vulgar etc., perhaps that's the case with some of the music. But there is a lot which is perhaps as, if not more, refined than what we have.

western music isnt vulgar to say the least.. just because it uses foul words doesnt make it vulgar or watever.. and not for all songs atleast...  there is a lot of great western music. but do people listen to it ?! most youth today (includin myself) would prefer a Britney spears over an Eva Cassidy... Eminimen over Robbie Williams... so thats where the 'bad' things start.. we have our own culture, to take the good from the west and use it, its fine.. actly its great.. coz it adds more zing to wat we r.. western influences in our songs today are really nice... one love by shaan was great, right here right now by ab is awesome, u n i in hum tum was good, dhoom dhoom by tata young were good... the use of english is songs like sara jahan from ek khiladi ek hasina make it very funky..so english music doesnt even come into picture...

Overall, my answer to your question would be Yes- Indian classical music is less popular as it is not visually appealing. but of course that's a generalization and there is some music that is so appealing that it transcends the visual factors for some of us sometimes.




ClapClapClapi agree with you madhavi didi!!!!

your points well taken, madhavir108! but still not sure if i feel we have an answer to:

1. do we have more of the need to be "cool" these days in campuses like DU. i think even earlier there was a westernized-cool look. and is it the westernized-cool look we find offensive, or all cool-looks? if we were voting, wld we say YES, NO, NOT SURE, MAYBE?

2. do we have any less penetration of classical music than was the case earlier? i think it was a smallish niche segment even earlier, each region with their own. and nothing wrong in that- it is fairly hard to derive economies of scale from regional products/ music. at the end of the day the producers and manufactures and MDs do need money to thrive and sustain their art... So qn still is, have we lost something in terms of "reach" that was previously there? YES, NO, NOT SURE, MAYBE?

3. re visual factors, i did mention that some music appeals so much to some of us at times that it goes beyond visual elements. So i think we are in agreement on that? For some, it may be all classical music, for someone else it may be more selective...

but good topic, madhavi didi!!!!Smile

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Posted: 26 March 2006 at 11:17am | IP Logged
Hi rahul wow U are really getting seriously into posting thoughts thesedays Tongue
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Posted: 26 March 2006 at 7:04pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rahul


your points well taken, madhavir108! but still not sure if i feel we have an answer to:

1. do we have more of the need to be "cool" these days in campuses like DU. i think even earlier there was a westernized-cool look. and is it the westernized-cool look we find offensive, or all cool-looks? if we were voting, wld we say YES, NO, NOT SURE, MAYBE?

2. do we have any less penetration of classical music than was the case earlier? i think it was a smallish niche segment even earlier, each region with their own. and nothing wrong in that- it is fairly hard to derive economies of scale from regional products/ music. at the end of the day the producers and manufactures and MDs do need money to thrive and sustain their art... So qn still is, have we lost something in terms of "reach" that was previously there? YES, NO, NOT SURE, MAYBE?

3. re visual factors, i did mention that some music appeals so much to some of us at times that it goes beyond visual elements. So i think we are in agreement on that? For some, it may be all classical music, for someone else it may be more selective...

but good topic, madhavi didi!!!!



Rahul, as answers to your questions,

1. How would u define cool? If you are Carnegie Melon, its cool to wear a shirt with Maxwell's equations written on it, if you are doing Engineering at University of Toronto(where I study currently), its perfectly normal to come in purple colour to class, if you are at an IIT, it 'cool' to wear chappals to class! Defining cool is hard.. Abhi is not against wearing western clothes (i hope not), he was against the fact that people who want to still be Indian are looked down upon.. I think students like that who dress in Indian should not give a **** to what others say, because its their identity and they should be proud of what tehy are.. as for people who dress in western, its their identity and they should also be proud of it!

2. We have not lost that reach, infact with the growth of media it has increased more. Why else will Hariharan, a trained musician in Carnatic music learn Hindustani ?! Today the divide is merging.. so many Carnatic music teachers in south teach hindi bhajans n I have heard Annamaya's kirtanas rendered by some Hindustani classical singers... so the reach has increased.. even MDs incorporate classical stuff into their songs esp. in period movies and they work..

3. yes, i agree with u when u say some music is beyond visual factors..

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Posted: 26 March 2006 at 7:20pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by giggles_2005

Pls guys...I have promised to keep HR out of this LOL

thank u soo much...Big smile

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