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AWESOME SITE MUST-SEE FOR DUMBLEDORE FANS

coolniyu IF-Dazzler
coolniyu
coolniyu

Harry Potter Crossword winner
Joined: 27 July 2005
Posts: 3953

Posted: 23 March 2006 at 6:08am | IP Logged

guys im not sure if u guys hv cn this site or not,but its jst too awesomely cool!!!! its a bit-by-bit analysation of all the reasons y d'dore is NOT dead EmbarrassedEmbarrassedEmbarrassed...heres d site link :

www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com

for all those who r too lazy to go to the site Tongue i m posting a plain text versionLOL but trust me the site may take a while to go thru but its TOTALLY worth it trust me its mind blowing n simply awesome Embarrassed...plzzzzzzzzzzz trust me n take the patience to go thru this site Big smile ....

heres d plain text version Big smile

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1. Dumbledore's Big Chill

Harry and Dumbledore are up on the top of the tower underneath the Dark Mark. Harry is wearing his invisibility cloak, Dumbledore ordered him to put it on before they mounted their brooms to ride to the top of the tower. Harry hears footsteps and looks around, but Dumbledore orders him with a gesture to retreat. Harry draws his wand and backs away:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.(HBP pg 584/545)

It's interesting to note that things are happening so fast, even Harry is momentarily confused:

He could not understand how it happened -- Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -- Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilzed Harry, and the second he had taken to perform this spell had cost him the chance of defending himself. (HBP pg 584/545)

Why did Dumbledore freeze Harry? Harry was already invisible to their attackers and in no danger.

The only explanation could be that Dumbledore already knew, had already planned, that he would die this night (or appear to die), and not only did he not want Harry to become involved and possibly be injured himself, he needed Harry to be a witness, to be able to tell everyone else what happened.

Dumbledore might have also promised Snape that he would make sure that Harry would not be able to interfere, knowing how Harry feels about Snape and what Snape was about to have to do.

The supposition that it was Dumbledore's plan to do this all along is supported by the fact that he acted so quickly to do it, almost without thinking, when Draco burst in on the scene.

Harry's own assumption that the Freezing Charm was done by Dumbledore is supported by the fact the curse lifted when Dumbledore left the tower minutes later.

2. Let's All Play Dead Together

While Dumbledore is trying to talk Draco out of killing him, Dumbledore proposes an interesting way out for Draco:

"I can help you, Draco." "No, you can't," said Malfoy, his wand shaking very badly indeed. "Nobody can. He told me to do it or he'd kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine." (HBP pg 591/552)

Dumbledore then offers to expand his mother in the protection, and even Lucius when he gets out of Azkaban.

This is very interesting, isn't it? Draco doesn't take him up on it, but Dumbledore is saying he has ways that could make it appear that Draco died when he really hadn't. Doesn't that sound exactly like what we suspect that Dumbledore has planned for himself?

IMPORTANT REVELATION!
UK Edition Missing Important Text!

The UK edition of Half-Blood Prince is missing some text that is included in the American edition, and it's text that is very important to this clue!

This is the text as it appears in the UK edition:

"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got not choice." "Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...when the time comes we can protect him too...come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP UK Edition pg 552)

But this is the same passage from the American edition (text missing from the UK edition highlighted):

"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...When the time comes we can protect him too. Come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP US Edition pg 591)

Both of the ommissions are directly related, they are about having Draco appeared to have died, so it would seem the ommisions are intentional.

Did J.K. include those lines originally, and then decide she had gone too far and made the clue too transparent and obvious? Is it possible she decided to remove them, but the lines got accidentally included in the American edition anyway?

3. Fawkes doesn't try to save Dumbledore

We've seen Fawkes come in at the last moment and save Harry's life in Chamber of Secrets:

As Harry trembled, ready to close his eyes if it turned, he saw what had distracted the snake. Fawkes was soaring around its head, and the basilisk was snapping furiously at him with fangs long and thin as sabers -- Fawkes dived. His long golden beak sunk out of sight and a sudden shower of dark blood spattered the floor. (CoS pg 318/234)

And he also saved Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix:

... one more jet of green light had flown at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake had struck -- Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide, and swallowed the jet of green light whole. He burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. (OotP pg 814/719)

We know Fawkes was nearby the tower, as he shows up after Dumbledore's "death". So, why didn't Fawkes come to save Dumbledore this time?

I think the fact that he didn't makes it possible to believe that Dumbledore didn't want his life to be saved, and this supports the theory that it was Dumbledore's plan all along to "die" up on that tower that night.

4. The Flying Avada Kedavra

As soon as I read the description of exactly what happened the moment that Snape killed Dumbledore, little red flags were popping up in my brain, but I didn't pay attention to them at first. This was actually the very first clue that alerted me to this whole thing.

Every other time we've seen the Avada Kedavra performed, the victim simply falls over dead:

He was screaming so loudly that he never heard the words the thing in the chair spoke as it raised a wand. There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumbled. He was dead before he hit the floor. (GoF pg 15/19)

From high above his head, he heard a high, cold voice say, "Kill the spare." A swishing noise and a second voice, which screeched the words to the night: "Avada Kedavra!" A blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to ground beside him. Cedric was lying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was dead. (GoF pg 638/553)

However, in Half-Blood Prince, when Snape curses Dumbledore with the same spell, Dumbledore violently flies up and away from the tower:

Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore. "Avada Kedavra!" A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silently he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he slowly fell backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight. (HBP pg 596/556)

Why would this application of the Avada Kedavra be so different from every other time we've seen it?

Perhaps his spell was different because even though those were the words Snape said, he didn't perform the killing curse at all. Remember all the importance this book gave to "nonverbal" spells? Perhaps Snape said Avada Kedavra, but the curse he was really thinking, the nonverbal one, was a different curse, one that only made it appear that Dumbledore was dead.

Even the title of the chapter this all takes place in is suspicous, "The Lightning-Struck Tower". Even though this is the name of the ominous tarot card that Trelawney was worried about back on page 543/507 in chapter 25, is it possible that J.K. is hinting here that the spell was not Avada Kedavra, just some green lightning sparks for show?

5. Don't Point That At Me Unless You Mean It

Several times in the course of the Harry Potter books, J.K. has told us that the Avada Kedavra is not a curse you can make lightly.

In Goblet of Fire, the fake Mad Eye Moody tells his DADA class:

"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed." (GoF pg 217/192)

And in Order of the Phoenix, we learn more about Avada Kedavra when Harry tries to curse Bellatrix:

Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810/715)

If Snape was really working on Dumbledore's orders to make it look to the world as if Snape had killed him, even if he had used the real Avada Kedavra, if he had not really meant it, if he really didn't want to kill Dumbledore, then isn't possible that the curse didn't kill Dumbledore, but only injured him badly?

6. Fawkes' Lament

Directly after Dumbledore's murder, as everyone assembled in the hospital wing, Harry tells everyone Snape did it. He stops, overcome with emotion, and right then, something very important happens:

Madame Pomfrey burst into tears. Nobody paid her any attention except Ginny, who whispered, "Shh! Listen!" (HBP pg 614/573)

Everyone was there, Ron and his parents, Hermione, Lupin, Tonks. Yet it is Madame Pomfrey who J.K. tells us is struck by this turn of events. Continuing:

Gulping, Madame Pomfrey pressed her fingers to her mouth, her eyes wide. Somewhere out in the darkness, a phoenix was singing in a way Harry had never heard before; a stricken lament of terrible beauty. (HBP pg 614/573)

J.K. spends another paragraph on how the phoenix song echos their grief, but while doing so mentions:

Harry felt, as he had felt about the Phoenix song before, that the music was inside him, not without ... How long they stood there, listening, he did not know, nor why it seemed to ease their pain a little to listen... (HBP pg 615/573)

And then McGonagall enters, changes the subject, and the phoenix song is forgotten.

Many minutes later, after all the retelling of the night's affair, J.K. mentions Fawkes is still at it:

They all fell silent. Fawkes's lament was still echoing over the dark grounds outside. (HBP pg 621/579)

...but Harry's thoughts move right on to other things, like wondering where Dumbledore's body is now. Many minutes later still, as this meeting breaks up and Harry is following McGonagall up to what is now her office, J.K. interjects:

The corridors outside were deserted and the only sound was the distant phoenix song. (HBP pg 625/583)

Whatever it was he was doing, Fawkes was working hard at it, and not giving up. Yet we are supposed to believe, as in the title of this chapter, "The Phoenix Lament", that it is only Dumbledore's pet echoing everyone's grief?

Are we so easily to forget that phoenix tears have powerful healing powers?

Significantly, it is the healer, Madame Pomfrey, who is brought to tears by the phoenix song. She knows the healing power of the phoenix well. She gulps with eyes wide. She recognizes something special is going on.

Also, J.K. goes out of her way to point out the healing qualities of the phoenix song, Harry feels it inside, the way he did last time he was healed by one, and most importantly, it seems to ease their pain!

From these passages, it certainly seems that J.K. wants us to know that Fawkes is doing some healing! Perhaps Fawkes is not powerful enough to bring someone back from the Avada Kedavra, but what if Dumbledore was not really hit by an Avada Kedrava, and instead hit with half a spell, or a spell to make him appear dead (as explained in the clues above)?

7. Anyone Seen Dumbledore's Wand Lately?

At the very begining of the big scene between Draco, Dumbledore and Snape, one of the first things that happens is Dumbledore loses his wand:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" ... by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts ... (HBP pg 584/545)

But where is his wand now?

We know a wizard's wand is very important to him, and a wand that belonged to a wizard as powerful as Dumbledore would be a very important item to know the whereabouts of, something you wouldn't want falling into the wrong hands.

This clue might not mean as much if we didn't know the customs of wizards in such occasions, but we do! Five chapters ago, when Harry and Slughorn were consoling Hagrid over the death of Aragog, Hagrid and Sluggy sang a song about a wizard called Odo, and Sluggy sang the lines:

And Odo the hero, they bore him back home,
To the place that he'd known as a lad,
They laid him to rest with his hat inside out
And his wand snapped in two, which was sad. (HBP pg 488/456)

But as far as we know, they didn't snap Dumbledore's wand in two. After the scene at the top of the tower, Dumbledore's wand is simply never mentioned again.

Is it possible that Dumbledore's wand is missing because Dumbledore still has his wand, still needs his wand, because he's not dead?

8. No Body, No Crime

The last time we really saw Dumbledore's body was when Harry is kneeling over it shortly after he has been killed by Snape the previous day.

Now, we see Hagrid carry the body of Dumbledore into his funeral, but it's covered:

Hagrid was walking slowly up the aisle between the chairs. He was crying quite silently, his face gleaming with tears, and in his arms, wrapped in purple velvet spangled with golden stars, was what Harry knew to be Dumbledore's body. (HBP pg 643/599)

We never really see Dumbledore's body at the funeral. How do we know it was there at all?

9. Caution: Dumbledore Is Flammable

As part of the funeral service, a fire ignites around the body of Dumbledore, and when it subsides, his body is encased in a white marble tomb.

Again, we don't see the body, either before or after the fire.

But more importantly, no one lights the fire, it just happens on its own. A body bursting into flame on its own. That sound like anyone we know? We've seen Fawkes do that several times now in the course of the Harry Potter books, and you know what happens to Fawkes after every time it does.

Earlier in the book, we saw several instances where Dumbledore uses fire, an important aspect of the symbol of a phoenix. When he first meets Tom Riddle in the orphanage, to demonstrate he's a wizard, he sets Tom's wardrobe on fire. And he conjures fire to protect Harry and himself from the infiri in the cave.

And after all this, in case we didn't get the allusions to a phoenix, J.K. reminds us just in case:

White smoke spiraled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the blue, but next second the fire had vanished. (HBP pg 645/601)

All these clues seem to suggest that if Dumbledore really did die, he has the ability to be reborn out of the ashes of his death, either under his own power, or with the help of the healing powers of Fawkes.

Besides, even if Dumbledore's body was there when it erupted into flame, we know that doesn't mean anything to a wizard!

Non-magic people (more commonly known as muggles) were particularly afraid of magic in medieval times, but not very good at recognizing it. On the rare occasion that they did catch a real witch or wizard, burning had no effect whatsoever. The witch or wizard would perform a basic Flame Freezing Charm and then pretend to shriek with pain while enjoying a gentle, tickling sensation. (PoA pg 2/7)

So, who do they think they were fooling at the funeral?
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Snape Clues
These are the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Snape is not really a Death Eater, has remained loyal to Dumbledore, and all through the book, Snape is working on Dumbledore's Orders.

Since the book is virtually about Snape (it's titled Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, which we know now is the same thing as saying Harry Potter and Snape), we can't possibly list here every mention in the book the relates to the mystery of Snape. But here are some of the ones that stood out as important to me.

(Page numbers shown are for US Edition/UK Edition.)

1. Snape Lies to Narcissa and Bellatrix... Twice

During the meeting that Snape has at his house with Narcissa and Bellatrix in chapter 2, Snape tries to explain to them why he never killed Harry all those years at Hogwarts when he had ample opportunity:

"Of course, it became apparent to me very quickly that he had no extraordinary talent at all. He has fought his way out of a number of tight corners by a simple combination of sheer luck and more talented friends. He is mediocre to the last degree..." (HBP pg 31/36)

But we know Snape knows this is a lie. We know Snape knows that Harry is a powerful wizard. We know he knows Harry is a parselmouth. We know he knows Harry could conjure a corporeal patronus when he was just 13 years old. We know he knows Harry has stood up to and prevailed against Voldemort five times!

But not even one whole page later, Narcissa is crying to Snape she has something she wants to say, but has been forbidden to talk about by Voldemort. Snape immediately replies that she should follow Voldemort's orders, and sister Bellatrix agrees. But Snape appears troubled by the conversation:

But Snape had gotten to his feet and strode to the small window, peered through the curtains, and then closed them again with a jerk. He turned around to face Narcissa, frowning. (HBP pg 32/37)

What happened to make him jerk the curtains closed all of a sudden and turn back to the women, frowning? Has he had a revelation?

It is only at this point that he confides in them that he already knows the plan, that Voldemort has already told him. He's lying again!

If he already knew the plan, why would he have taken the position, just one moment earlier, that she should follow Voldemort's law and not speak of it?

We know Snape is a powerful Legilimens, we learned that in the Occlumency scenes with Snape and Harry in Order of the Phoenix. Just in case we forgot about Legilimency, J.K. mentioned it just a few pages ago. Questioning Voldemort's trust in Snape, Snape interrupts:

"You think he is mistaken? Or that I somehow hoodwinked him? Fool the Dark Lord, the greatest wizard, the most accomplished Legilimens the world has ever seen?" (HBP pg 26/31)

Having just been on the verge of spilling the beans to Snape, Draco's assignment must have been top-most in Narcissa's thoughts, and in the quiet moment at the window, Snape saw it in her mind. He then lies to them about already knowing the plan, to gain their trust.

So, at the same time that Snape is trying to convince Narcissa and Bellatrix that he's worthy of Voldemort's trust, we can see he is lying to them, several times. That can only mean that Snape isn't as loyal to Voldemort as he'd like Bellatrix and Narcissa (and us!) to believe.

2. What Hagrid Overheard

Harry is talking to Hagrid after the poisoning of Ron, and Hagrid lets it slip that he overheard something he shouldn't have:

I was comin' outta the forest the other evenin' an' I overheard 'em talking -- well, arguin'. ... I jus' heard Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an' maybe he -- Snape -- didn' wan' ter do it anymore ... Dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed ter do it an' that was all there was to it." (HBP pg 405/380)

This clue comes right out and tells us that Snape is following the orders of Dumbledore, although we now see whatever Snape has promised to do for Dumbledore is difficult or unpleasant.

We also now have comfirmation that Dumbledore has a plan, which involves Snape, and Dumbleore is confident that the plan that Snape has agreed to will proceed.

3. No DADA Teacher Has Lasted More Than 1 Year

For every Hogwarts year that is documented in the Harry Potter books so far, it stands out prominently that there has been a different Defense Against The Dark Arts teacher each year.

They even joked about it at the beginning of the previous book, when the kids are looking over their just arrived book lists for the year, and they're wondering who assigned the Slinkhard book, as it meant Dumbledore had found a new DADA teacher:

Fred told Harry ... "Dumbledore was having real trouble finding anyone to do the job this year." "Not surprising, is it, when you look at what's happened to the last four?" said George. "One sacked, one dead, one's memory erased, and one locked in a trunk for nine months," said Harry, counting them off on his fingers. "Yeah, I see what you mean." (OotP pg 161/146)

And in Half-Blood Prince, Harry, Ron and Hermione talk about this again when they are surprised at the sorting feast that Snape will be DADA teacher that year:

"Well, there's one good thing," [Harry] said savagely. "Snape'll be gone by the end of the year." "What do you mean?" asked Ron. "That job's jinxed. No one's lasted more than a year...Quirell actually died doing it..." (HBP pg 167/159)

Ironically, it turns out, Harry was literally right. When Tom Riddle returned after a ten year absence to again request to be a teacher at Hogwarts, Dumbledore rejected him, and upon Harry's questioning, Dumbledore gave us some important insight into the Hogwarts DADA teacher situation:

"Was he after the Defense Against the Dark Arts job again, sir? He didn't say..." "Oh, he definitely wanted the Defense Against the Dark Arts job," said Dumbledore. "The aftermath of our little meeting proved that. You see, we have never been able to keep a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher for longer than a year since I refused the post to Lord Voldemort." (HBP pg 446/418)

So, Dumbledore himself is admitting he knows that Voldemort cursed the DADA teacher job. This means he knew about the curse when he assigned Snape to the job this year. But he never intended Snape to be in the job for longer than a year to begin with, as his plan for Snape to kill him and flee at the end of the year must have already been in place.

4. Don't Judge A Book By Its Cover

When Snape comes into the bathroom after being alerted by Moaning Myrtle, he knows instanly that the Sectumsempra curse was used to injure Draco, because he goes right to work on him using the proper countercurse to reverse the damage. He then takes Draco to the hospital wing, ordering Harry to wait for him there.

When Snape returns, he asks Harry where he learned the curse, and Harry says he saw it in a book in the library. Snape puts his Legilimency to work again:

"Liar," said Snape. Harry's throat went dry. He knew what Snape was going to do and he had never been able to prevent it... The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's copy of Advanced Potion Making swam hazily to the fore-front of his mind. (HBP pg 524/490)

Snape then demands Harry bring him his books, Harry makes a detour and hides the book in the room of requirement, bringing Snape Ron's copy of the book instead.

Snape must know Harry's trying to pull a fast one on him, he knows Harry has the book, he saw it in his mind. But instead of pressing the point, Snape just gives him a dozen detentions.

Why would Snape do this if he wasn't still working for Dumbledore? He lost his temper with Harry when he demanded Harry bring him the book, but then even though Harry lies to him about it, Snape remembers who's side he's on, and backs off.

5. Severus... Please...

If you believe that Snape is acting on Dumbledore's orders to kill him (or possibly just make it look like he killed him, although he'd probably still be hurting him), then Snape's demeanor and Dumbledore's final words take on a whole new meaning.

...somebody else had spoken Snape's name, quite softly. "Severus..." The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading. Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. ... Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face. "Severus... Please..." (HBP pg 595/556)

In that passage the reader is supposed to believe that Snape hates Dumbledore and feels revulsion for him.

But to help us understand the real meaning of Snape's feelings of revulsion and hatred, J.K. used almost the exact same words for what Harry was feeling just one chapter previous:

"You...you can't stop, Professor," said Harry. "You've got to keep drinking, remember? You told me you had to keep drinking. Here..." Hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing, Harry forced the goblet back toward Dumbledore's mouth ... (HBP pg 571/534)

Even though Snape was to kill Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, it must have been something that was still really emotional and difficult for Snape to do, exactly as it was for Harry to make Dumbledore drink the potion.

The feeling of revulsion on Snape's face was not for Dumbledore, but the act he knew he had to commit. The hatred was not for Dumbledore, but for what Dumbledore was making him do.

And when Dumbledore said, "Severus... Please..." he wasn't begging "please don't". What he was really saying was, "Severus, please kill me, as you promised you would."

Way back at the end the first book, when Dumbledore confirms for Harry that Flamel would die now that the philosopher's stone was gone, Dumbledore explained:

"To one as young as you, I'm sure it seems incredible, but to Nicolas and Perenelle, it really is like going to bed after a very, very long day. After all, to the well-organised mind, death is but the next great adventure." (SS/PS pg 297/215)

Does that sound to you like someone who would beg to save his own life?

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS
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1. If Snape Didn't Fulfill The Unbreakable Vow, Why Isn't He Dead?

There are three unanswered aspects to this question.

First, do unbreakable vows have a time limit? It's unlikely they do, because you'd think it would have to be stated when the vow was made, and no such time limit was set.

But if they don't have time limits, then it's sort of hard to enforce an unbreakable vow, isn't?

"Hey! You didn't fulfill your promise! You're dead!" "No wait! I just haven't gotten around to it, you can't kill me yet!"

Second, I believe if you re-read all of chapter 2, you will see that the exact details of Draco's task are never spoken outloud in that scene, we only learn of the details later.

If the exact nature of what Snape's promising to do are not spoken exactly, but possibly only an understanding between the parties, what promise is he held to, exactly? Can he be held to details of a vow that weren't expressly stated? Am I watching too many lawyer shows on TV?

One of Draco's main tasks was to fix the vanishing cabinet so he could sneak his Death Eater pals into Hogwarts. Perhaps that's what Snape vowed to help with, and in that case, Draco suceeeded, so Snape's off the hook.

Third, this unanswerable question is based on the assumption that Dumbledore isn't really dead, so Snape didn't kill him, so he didn't fulfill the vow.

But what if the person you made the vow with thinks you fulfilled it? The world, including Narcissa and Bellatrix (and you, possibly, up until you read this site! :-) thinks that Dumbledore is dead. So does that fulfill Snapes vow?

This one is possibly unanswerable until we can either dig out some more clues buried elsewhere in the book, or possibly we won't know until book 7.

2. Doesn't Dumbledore's Portrait Mean That He's Dead?

Does it state anywhere in a Harry Potter book that you have to be dead to be on the wall in the headmaster's office? I can't prove this, but I think it's just more likely the only requirement is you have to be a former headmaster, and it just so happens all of the former headmasters previous to Dumbledore are currently dead.

The book says:

...a new portrait had joined the ranks of the dead headmasters and headmistresses of Hogwarts: Dumbledore was slumbering in a golden frame above his desk, his half-moon spectacles perched upon his crooked nose, looking peaceful and untroubled. (HBP pg 626/584)

Yes, we see it says Dumbledore joined the ranks of the dead headmasters. But that doesn't necessarily mean he is dead, it just means the others of the ranks he was joining were dead.

2a. If Dumbledore Is Alive, Where Is Umbridge's Portrait?

So, you may say, if all the portraits on the wall in the headmaster's office aren't necessarily dead, then where's the portrait of Dolores Jane Umbridge? She was temporarily headmistress last year.

First of all, we don't know there's not a portrait of Umbridge. It's never been mentioned, but it's never been mentioned there isn't one, either.

But, some have asked, the event of the death of the headmaster is surely what triggers the creation of the new portrait.

Unfortunately, we just don't know enough about this. For example, it's possible that you may have actually had to have worked in the office to be honored there. That would leave the toad-lady out, since she was locked out of the headmaster's office during her tenure. Or, perhaps, it is a declaration by the Hogwarts board of governers which creates the portrait, in which case, Umbridge wouldn't have one because the ministry appointed her.

Of course, it's also possible that Dolores is so hated, that the other portraits got together and banned her portrait to a closet someplace...

3. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

And speaking of Umbridge...

Everyone who was everyone in the Wizarding world showed up for Dumbledore's funeral, including Dolores! Weren't you a bit shocked to see her there?

She could have been there out of respect, but we know she wouldn't mean it, and as she must surely be way down on the Ministry ladder right now, who would she be trying to impress by the act?

I think it's much more likely that it was arranged for her to be there, as a witness. If the plan was to have the world believe that Dumbledore is dead, then having the toad-lady there as a witness to his funeral would be pretty compelling proof for the Dumbledore haters who Umbridge represents that Dumbledore really is gone.

4. The Draught of Living Death

Potions come into play a lot in the course of Half-Blood Prince. In chapter 9, Professor Slughorn presents four already-made potions to his first class, three of which figure prominently in the story.

They are Veritaserum (truth potion), Polyjuice Potion, which we find out later is being used by Crabbe and Goyle to disguise themselves as girls while they're lookouts for Draco, Amortentia (love potion), which Ron accidentally injests from a candy meant for Harry, and Feilx Felicis, which aids the members of Dumbledore's Army later in the climax of the story.

Then, in the same class, Harry, with the aid of the Half-Blood Prince, produces a perfect Draught of Living Death, which was introduced to us way back in Snape's first lesson in the first book. Interestingly, in pratically the same breath, Snape also mentions the bezoar which also figures prominently in Half-Blood Prince, and also wolfsbane, which we know helps Lupin later in Prisoner of Azkaban:

"For your information, Potter, asphodel and wormwood make a sleeping potion so powerful it is known as the Draught of Living Death. A bezoar is a stone taken from the stomach of a goat and it will save you from most poisons. As far as monkshood and wolfsbane, they are the same plant... (SS/PS pg 138/103)

Some fans are speculating that the fifth potion in this scene is important too, that Dumbledore uses the Draught of Living Death to somehow fake his death that night up on the tower. While this theory is possible, besides the mention of the Draught of Living Death here in chapter 9, to my knowledge there is no other evidence to support this theory.

5. Will The Real Dumbledore Please Stand Up?

Another theory some fans have put forward involves a clue that has to do with Dumbledore's pensieve.

When we first see the pensieve in Goblet of Fire, Dumbledore demonstates for Harry how memories are put into it:

Dumbledore drew his wand out of the inside of his robes and placed the tip into his own silvery hair, near his temple. When he took the wand away, hair seemed to be clinging to it -- but then Harry saw that it was in fact a glistening strand of the same strange silvery-white substance that filled the Pensieve. Dumbledore added this fresh thought to the basin, and Harry, astonished, saw his own face swimming around the surface of the bowl. (GoF pg 597/519)

We saw the pensieve in operation in Order of the Phoenix also:

Snape pulled out his wand from an inside pocket of his robes and Harry tensed in his chair, but Snape merely raised the wand to his temple and placed the tip into the greasy roots of his hair. When he withdrew it, some silvery substance came away, stretching from temple to wand like a thick gossamer strand, which broke as he pulled the wand away from it and fell gracefully into the Pensieve, where it swirled silvery white, neither gas nor liquid. (OotP pg 533/471)

Both nearly identical descriptions of two different people putting a memory of their own into the pensieve.

But now, take a look at this from Half-Blood Prince:

"...I have two last memories that I would like to share with you." Dumbledore indicated the two little crystal bottles gleaming beside the Pensieve. (HBP pg 430/402)

"And now for the very last recollection I have to show you" ... Harry got to his feet once more as Dumbledore emptied the last memory into the Pensieve. "Who's memory is it?" he asked. "Mine," said Dumbledore. (HBP pg 440/412)

If this was his own memory, why would Dumbledore have stored this memory in a bottle rather than just pull it out his head the way he and Snape had done before?

Although I consider this unlikely, fans are pointing to this clue to theorize that Dumbledore hasn't been Dumbledore for all of, or at least a great portion of, the book, and that the Dumbledore we see is someone using Polyjuice potion to pretend to be him, and therefore the real Dumbledore isn't dead. Only a fake Dumbledore would have to have the memory in a bottle, because only the real Dumbledore could take it directly out of his head.

But it's also just possible Dumbledore sealed the important memory in the bottle for safe-keeping...

Dumbledore's Horcrux

A DumbledoreIsNotDead.com Guest Article
written by Jan-Marie Spanard
How does a wizard learn about the existence and properties of Horcruxes? Who knows what they are, how to make them, what they can do? What wizard would make a Horcrux? Under what circumstances? And for what reasons? And why are they so evil? Hermione is working very hard to answer these questions. As Hogwarts virtual library search-engine, she is coming up empty - no answers to these questions can be found at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry so far. Tom Riddle Fifty years ago, Tom Riddle, while still a student at Hogwarts, somehow learned of Horcruxes. How he did this is something of a mystery since Tom has no wizarding family, no connection with anyone in the wizarding world outside of Hogwarts (that we know of), and attended a school where Horcruxes were a banned subject and the headmaster, Dumbledore, was, as Slughorn explains (OOP, US version p. 499) "particularly fierce about it..." ("it" being the ban on Horcruxes). And yet by the end of Book 6, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, we believe that Tom Riddle-turned-Voldemort had probably divided his soul into seven parts and created six external Horcruxes in his lifetime. How do we learn of the Voldemort Horcruxes? Through Dumbledore's suspicions. Dumbledore is the only wizard who suspected that Voldemort created Horcruxes. When the Avada Kedavra curse Voldemort used against Harry backfired and diminished Voldemort, Dumbledore suspected that Voldemort had made a Horcrux. Then Tom Riddle's diary came along in Chamber of Secrets and Dumbledore's theory gained some support. No mere memory, the being in Tom Riddle's diary began to come to life and behave like a Horcrux, restoring Voldemort to life. But then Tom Riddle's diary was destroyed when Harry stabbed it with the poison basilisk fang, and Voldemort did not perish. So here Dumbledore must have begun to realize that either he was wrong about his theory that Voldemort had made a Horcrux or that there may have been more than one Horcrux. What an astounding idea this must have seemed! And in Book 6 when Harry returned from the graveyard and reported what Voldemort told his followers at the end of Goblet of Fire about having gone further than any other wizard, Dumbledore believed that this information provided support for the possibility that Voldemort may have been using Horcruxes, but had been using more than one of them. Remember, it wasn't until Harry finagled that bit of memory from Slughorn (in HBP) that we got any confirmation at all of Dumbledore's Horcrux theory. Slughorn's memory shows the first hard evidence linking Voldemort with the Horcruxes. But Dumbledore suspected the possibility of a Horcrux from the beginning. Why? Why suspect a Horcrux? Was it because he was familiar with the concept? Was it because he had already created one? Dumbledore create something as evil as a Horcrux! Impossible! Or is it? (Hmmm, perhaps I should write for the Quibbler…) Here's a thought: perhaps it is not the Horcrux itself that is evil, but killing someone in order to create a Horcrux that is evil. Slughorn explains that the Horcrux is created: "By committing murder. Killing rips the soul apart. The wizard intent upon creating a Horcrux would use this damage to his advantage: He would encase the torn portion (of his soul in a Horcrux)" (HBP p. 498). Killing rips the soul apart. This is important: Killing rips the soul apart -- whether one makes a Horcrux or not. The evil act is in the killing. If a wizard had killed another person, regardless of his intent, the ripping of the soul would have occurred. There are three possible forms of intent involved in the act of killing. The first is malice, the desire to inflict harm and affect a killing. We usually associate this with anger or hatred and Muggle and Wizard societies both punish this type of act. The second form of intent is self-preservation. Here the person who affects the murder is justified in doing so because he, his family, his friends or even his society as a whole are in danger from the person who is about to be killed. In this case the killer is not punished by society. And the third form of intent is actually lack-of-intent. This is the case when a person or persons are killed inadvertently, or accidentally. In the Muggle world this is sometimes punished, sometimes not. If the killer's lack of due diligence caused the death(s) -- as in drunken driving -- we tend to punish it, even though it was not intended by the killer. If the killer shows due diligence -- and someone simply jumps out onto the road in front of a moving car -- we tend not to punish the killer. I do believe that killing under any of the three forms of intent causes damage to the soul. Maybe there is no blame to be laid, no guilt to be levied, but there would still be great anguish to the soul of someone who realizes he has taken a life. Whether through malice, self-defense, or completely by accident, the person who kills is diminished in some way by having taken a life. I believe this is the damage to the soul. It is not a punishment by society, but a natural result of destroying life. And I think this damage occurs no matter how good or evil the person who affects the killing is as a person. In fact, it is easy to imagine that the anguish of a good person who is pressed to kill is far greater than that of someone who feels no loss at ending someone's life. The damage to the soul would be irreversible. And here a wizard could use this damage "to his advantage (by) encasing the torn portion in a Horcrux." Creating a Horcrux, in and of itself, is not evil. It is the murder that precedes the Horcrux creation that causes the soul to be ripped apart that is evil. Killing is, as Slughorn explains, "the supreme act of evil." The evil is done. And then you have a damaged soul. Encasing your now-damaged soul in a Horcrux neither extends nor eradicates the evil born of the murder. A Horcrux is simply a container for that already-damaged portion of the soul. We know, from Albus Dumbledore's chocolate frog card (Philosopher's Stone, UK edition, p. 77), that "Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindlewald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelve uses of dragon's blood and his work on alchemy with his partner Nicolas Flamel." So, in 1945 Dumbledore defeated the evil wizard Grindlewald. How might he have "defeated" Grindlewald? Did he need to kill him as perhaps Harry needs to kill Voldemort? There is no mention of Grindlewald in Azkaban. I suspect that the defeat did involve a killing. If Dumbledore had killed Grindlewald, then perhaps Dumbledore might have created a Horcrux. Not necessarily an evil Horcrux, but the product of opportunity rather than the product of an evil act. Dumbledore is a very intelligent, logical being. If the killing of Grindlewald was necessary, then the possibility of creating a Horcrux might be a logical follow-up. And if the killing was a positive event eliminating evil from the wizard world, then perhaps Dumbledore's Horcrux -- though borne through dark magic -- would not be an evil thing. Not creating a Horcrux would not have changed his need to kill Grindlewald. Why would Dumbledore even consider making a Horcrux? In Book 1, McGonagall has a conversation with Dumbledore in which she points out that he knows all of the Dark Magic, but that she believes he chooses not to use any of it. Perhaps he has had good reason to use Dark Magic for some positive purposes. And remember, Dumbledore's old friend, Nicholas Flamel, sought eternal life with the Philosopher's Stone. Why is it hard to suppose that Dumbledore may have sought eternal life as well? A different means to that end, yes, but still with a goal to the same end. But would Dumbledore have committed this supreme act of evil? If Dumbledore has committed a killing, he would have to have a damaged soul. The damage done by killing another is absolute. Does Dumbledore have a damaged soul? Having a soul like Harry's that is "untarnished and whole" (p. 511) is certainly wonderful but may not be something that every witch and wizard can claim. Dumbledore is 150 years old and has been battling evil in the wizarding world for quite some time. Is it possible that his soul is still untarnished and whole? That he has never harmed another witch or wizard, evil or otherwise? I think not. Only youth has such purity and innocence. As people go through life, wizards and Muggles alike, we are confronted with difficult choices and obstacles, points in our lives at which there is no easy answer. So let's assume Dumbledore did need to finish Grindlewald to remove his evil influence from the world. What Horcrux would hold Dumbledore's damaged bit of soul? Gryffindor's Sword perhaps? One of the many silvery spindly objects in his office? I don't think so. I think Dumbledore's Horcrux is the phoenix Fawkes. Isn't it most interesting that Dumbledore suspected that Nagini was one of Voldemort's Horcruxes? We know Voldemort to be a friendless person who collects inanimate artifacts and objects for his Horcrux keepers. Why would Dumbledore think that Voldemort might choose Nagini to guard a portion of his soul? Why suppose that a wizard would choose any animal as a Horcrux, unless of course you had already done the very same thing yourself. There is no comparison between Nagini and Fawkes as viable soul-keepers, or Horcruxes. Nagini is a snake, a magical creature with questionable moral values. Fawkes is a magical creature known for extreme loyalty, the ability to heal wounds and transport very heavy loads for long distances. Fawkes seems to be all positive attributes. And even more importantly: Nagini can be destroyed. Fawkes, a phoenix, cannot be killed. He will continue to rise anew from the ashes, reborn to continue on. Fawkes is an excellent choice for a Horcrux. Fawkes will live forever. All right, so let's say we allow the assumption that Dumbledore has made a Horcrux. And let's go on to the next step and allow that Harry discovers it. This is, by the way, quite necessary since the Harry Potter stories are all told from Harry's point of view and we would certainly not know of the Horcrux unless Harry knew of it as well. How would this Horcrux work itself into the story in Book 7? What would be the value and difficulty of discovering that Dumbledore had created a Horcrux? The value is easy to spot. There is then the possibility that Dumbledore isn't gone for good. He may have died physically, but he could be reborn through the use of his Horcrux. This is, for everyone except Voldemort and the Death Eaters, a very uplifting possibility. Dumbledore's abrupt departure from the quest to destroy Voldemort at the close of Book 6 is quite disturbing. It is as though, after so many, many years of his research and discovery to identify Voldemort's weakness(es), Dumbledore simply vanishes. What if Harry is not the only one to learn of Fawkes's role as a Horcrux? Then what? Who else might be trying to recover Fawkes at the same time as Harry? The most likely wizard to join Harry in the pursuit of Fawkes would be -- Severus Snape. Somehow, Snape will know that Fawkes was Dumbledore's Horcrux and will be trying to get Fawkes. Harry will discover this. Not knowing whether Snape is good or evil, we won't know whether Snape should get Fawkes or not. Hermione will tell us we should trust Dumbledore's faith in Snape; Harry will be convinced Snape is up to something evil. It is possible Snape is supposed to acquire Fawkes, that Dumbledore wants him to, and that Snape was aware -- at the moment of the Avada Kedavra curse on top of the tower -- that there would be further steps to having Dumbledore return to make sure that Voldemort was vanquished. Furthermore: How would Dumbledore have protected Fawkes from Voldemort? Surely Dumbledore would have foreseen that someone on the Dark Side might have discovered Fawkes's value as a Horcrux. How might he have provided protection for Fawkes? Perhaps in was in the same way he protected the Philosopher's Stone. Remember the protection Dumbledore placed on the Stone in the Mirror of Erised? "You see, only one who wanted to find the Stone -- find it, but not use it -- would be able to get it..." (PS p.217) Perhaps Harry will need to want to recover Fawkes, but not activate Dumbledore's Horcrux in order to gain Fawkes. Maybe when Harry discovers that Dumbledore has a Horcrux -- Fawkes -- a choice has to be made about bringing Dumbledore back or going on without Dumbledore's help. What if the choice was there and Harry has to decide whether to rely on Dumbledore's help or to move on as a now-adult wizard (Harry comes of age at the start of Book 7 on July 31) and accept his role as The Chosen One? A choice between what is right and what is easy, perhaps. Somehow, I have found it hard to believe that Dumbledore would so easily leave the battle with Voldemort. Dumbledore has spent many years researching Voldemort's background and looking for ways to finish him. Why would he bow out so easily, before he could see his work brought to closure? Completed by Harry, yes, but brought to closure. And the wording of Professor Trelawney's prophecy is curious, as well, "one cannot live while the other survives…" If Harry, himself, does not directly cause Voldemort's death, Harry will retain his pure, untarnished, virgin soul. He will remain in many ways childlike and pure. Is this desirable? Or does Harry need to pass through a gauntlet of sorts to become an adult? Perhaps Harry must kill Voldemort to become an adult. Perhaps this is a painful process that must be done. Harry came awfully close to damaging his soul with the Septumsempra curse on Malfoy. It is not impossible to believe that Harry will have to suffer the consequences of his anger and hatred toward Voldemort (and maybe Snape). As a minor (under the age of 17) Harry still has a pure untarnished soul. But is it realistic to expect that this will continue throughout his adult life? I think not. Life is not that simple. Meanwhile, there is one other important player in this search: Hagrid. Rubeus Hagrid, Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts, is our resident expert in Magical Creatures. That's Fawkes, a magical creature. Hagrid will know how to recover and capture Fawkes (just like Hagrid knew how to lull Fluffy to sleep) because Dumbledore would have told him. Dumbledore tells Professor McGonagall in Book 1, "I would trust Hagrid with my life," and he has. Dumbledore has shared with Hagrid Fawkes's secret. So while we know there will be a search going on for Voldemort's Horcruxes in Book 7, we may learn that a parallel search will commence for Dumbledore's Horcrux, Fawkes. I really do believe that Dumbledore does have a Horcrux. The Horcrux is Fawkes, his soul mate, literally. And Hagrid is the Secret keeper of the Horcrux secret. Hagrid will likely die protecting this information. And what does that mean? Hopefully we'll find out soon, because J.K. chose this topic as one of the three FAQ questions she would like to answer on her web site: What happens to a Secret after the Secret keeper dies? I don't think this is of terribly vital importance to 12 Grimmauld Place, but I do think it will matter even more when it comes to losing Hagrid.

We learn of the existence of Horcruxes out of the blue in Book 6 of the seven book series. No mention of them in any of the thousands of pages preceding Half-Blood Prince in Books 1 through 5. Will we learn in Book 7 that there is another Horcrux? Dumbledore's Horcrux?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and the awesome pix frm d site:

 

 

 

 

coolniyu IF-Dazzler
coolniyu
coolniyu

Harry Potter Crossword winner
Joined: 27 July 2005
Posts: 3953

Posted: 23 March 2006 at 6:13am | IP Logged
i no its unendingly long guys but plz bea wid me Embarrassed
and also this site has been arnd for along time..so its highly likely tht sum1 has posted d link to this site b4 Big smile but since im not so regular on hp forum i maynt no evn if sum1 has posted d link b4 Ouch
so sry if it has been posted guys Embarrassed if it has lock d topic Smile
Morgoth IF-Rockerz
Morgoth
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Joined: 01 June 2004
Posts: 6831

Posted: 23 March 2006 at 6:19am | IP Logged
yes, dear, it has been posted before. but, welcome to the HP forum. Smile
~*Manshi*~ IF-Rockerz
~*Manshi*~
~*Manshi*~

Joined: 28 December 2005
Posts: 6821

Posted: 23 March 2006 at 6:58am | IP Logged
thanks Smile Smile Smile but already posted

Edited by ashi_rox - 23 March 2006 at 6:59am
daniel_4ever IF-Rockerz
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Joined: 29 April 2005
Posts: 6066

Posted: 23 March 2006 at 7:28am | IP Logged
Originally posted by T.

yes, dear, it has been posted before. but, welcome to the HP forum. Smile


 is it... when ??? Confused
hazelgirl IF-Rockerz
hazelgirl
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Joined: 25 June 2005
Posts: 5745

Posted: 23 March 2006 at 9:32am | IP Logged
i dnt had the patience to read the whole thing...but thanx for the news Tongue Tongue Tongue
ishu124 Goldie
ishu124
ishu124

Joined: 17 September 2005
Posts: 2499

Posted: 23 March 2006 at 4:33pm | IP Logged
Although I consider this unlikely, fans are pointing to this clue to theorize that Dumbledore hasn't been Dumbledore for all of, or at least a great portion of, the book, and that the Dumbledore we see is someone using Polyjuice potion to pretend to be him, and therefore the real Dumbledore isn't dead. Only a fake Dumbledore would have to have the memory in a bottle, because only the real Dumbledore could take it directly out of his head.

But it's also just possible Dumbledore sealed the important memory in the bottle for safe-keeping...
________________________________________________________
could this mean dumby bro is his own twin???? n dumbledore was the one who actually drank the thing in book 6????
albusdumbledore IF-Dazzler
albusdumbledore
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Joined: 12 August 2005
Posts: 3093

Posted: 23 March 2006 at 8:25pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by daniel_4ever

Originally posted by T.

yes, dear, it has been posted before. but, welcome to the HP forum. Smile


 is it... when ??? Confused

wat were you doing when it was posted..... many of posted this in new threads ... even me..... sleepin or what.....Tongue

regards,

tejas

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