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SEXUALITY debate: Why can't people live their life (Page 6)

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Damyanthi

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Damyanthi

Joined: 30 June 2010

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Posted: 03 December 2011 at 3:35am | IP Logged
Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by Petrouska

Originally posted by _twilight_

If homosexuality is as positive and natural as someone earlier said why is it not generally  accepted or encouraged by religion or society?
It is positive and normal, it is just that not many people are homosexual or bisexual. Generally sex for pleasure is considered a sin. But in a hetrosexual relationship, especially between husband and wife, the couple can preted to have sex only for the purpose of producing offspring. Most relegions beleive that the aim of sex is to have offspring. Since homosexual relationships were not common and did not involve any "nobel" end product such as the birth of children, it was considered a sin. And something that was considered wrong for so many years cannot suddenly become right. It will take time for people to accept such views and to accept such people.
Sin or not, procreation was and is considered to be important . There would be social implications. The social impact was given priority  to individual cravings.

As the numbers of LGBT increase in a particular community or nation  the population growth of that region or group would decline. This could be a cause for some concern especially as the other less tolerant or accommodating groups could soon outgrow  the former. That seems to impart an evolutionary disadvantage to a community.

As most people have agreed, very few people "turn" homosexual. Generally they are born that way. But studies on their psycology do point out that some can "turn" homosexual under extreme circumstances. It is generally agreed that environment of the individual does to some extent affect an individual's sexuality. I have posted a few links to this effect.

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Damyanthi

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Damyanthi

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Posted: 03 December 2011 at 3:49am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

I really don't think you can view sexual orientation on an advantage or disadvantage basis. It is something that just is. It is akin to asking what advantages or disadvantages are there to being black. Of course socially, legally there are very distinct advantages and disadvantages you can list off ' but you don't view your personal identity in those terms.

 

Sure there are several disadvantages to being homosexual.

-          Criminal offense in many nations

-          Limited legal rights in many nations

-          Viewed as sinful by many religious groups

-          Lack of social acceptance

 

As for health risks associated with sexuality, a lot of it comes down to practicing safe sex. Gay men and people born in certain AIDS afflicted nations are prohibited from donating blood because of high risk. However, with homosexuality being accepted and homosexual sex education and health services made available the gay male community is becoming safer.

 

Anal siphters are a risk for any couples engaging in a form of anal sex, anal sex is just more common in gay men. It is not always about the orientation but the "act" that is being practiced by the couple. Some acts are the same across the board. Health risk wise the safest might be being lesbian as they have the lowest STD and bruising risks.

That's the whole point, they can, but they don't. There are a whole lot of sites which point out to the various health disadvantages of homosexuals. This is just one amongst many http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a02rStatistcs.html 
These sites must say that honosexuals have as much chances of acquiring AIDS or other STD as Hetrosexuals, but they don't. They say they are at a higher risk. Why? Yes, the problem can be minimized by awareness, but this is something that is easier said than done.

Damyanthi

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Damyanthi

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Posted: 03 December 2011 at 4:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Beyond_the_Veil

Originally posted by Petrouska

Well, I do not think it's a crime to be homosexual or bisexual. It is way a person wants to lead his/her life and as long as they do it out of choice, it's perfectly alright. And as you say, people have the right to live their lives the way they want, as long as their way of life is not a nuinsance to the public!

But sometimes, environment does play an important role in making an individual turn homosexual. Take Saudi Arabia for instance. It is probably one of the countries with a high number of gays and lesbians. It could probably be because of the stringent and dogmatic views of the country and its law. It's generally beleived that if the normal is forbidden, people take the abnormal path. In such countries, it is a crime for a man and woman who are not related to be seen together in public places. When people of the same sex gather for an event or are seen together, it does not raise suspision. And some people could see it a way of rebelling againt their country or religion. In some cases, if men and women experience traumatic experience at the hands of the opposite sex during childhood, then there is a possibility of these people seeking comfort and love from other people of their own sex. This may make them feel secure.

So, if an individual has taken the decision to be homosexual maturely, then there isn't a problem. Otherwise, they may require councelling.
 

People don't take the "decision to be[come] homosexual" - there is no logical argument or science behind this. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me you are thinking of sexuality in terms of the intercourse and action - when, in reality, sexuality goes well beyond that. It's a complex term we give to the entire experience and awareness of gender identity and sexual thoughts. There is more to a sexual orientation than just the physical needs and actions.

So going by the dictionary definition, a person can be a closeted gay and married (and consequently sexually active) to a woman for all his life. At the same time, it is entirely possible for the heterosexual community to experiment with alternate sexuality, but that wouldn't make them gay. It's not the action but the desire that marks one's sexuality.

The exact cause of homosexuality has not been pinpointed and proven beyond reasonable doubt by the scientific establishment, but most scientifically minded organisations do regard it as something that one has no control over - the only choice is whether to act upon the desire or not. The desire, however, is not something one can choose to have and stay with them.

Environment and upbringing probably does play a part in forming ones sexuality - how important and crucial it is, we will have to wait and see - but that still does not make it something one is consciously choosing for oneself. In fact most people who are sexually active did not one day wake up and suddenly decide to be gay or straight.

Homosexual actives are quite common in prisons and similar places where finding members of the opposite sex could be difficult - but it's the basic human drive for sex that leads people to experiment and release their sexual needs by fornicating with anyone they could get hold of, not their natural desire that does. Again, has there been any documented case where prisoners were still 'into' homosexuality even after being released from prisons?

I have never come across this piece that there are more LGBTs in Saudi Arabia. Would you back up that with any reliable source, because so far I have not come across this information. It seems to me that from an outsider's perspective, the number of gays, lesbians and bisexuals may seem alarmingly high - because of the archaic and barbaric punishments (often) used against the community there. Similarly, in Iran, sex change is a very common scenario because while Iran does not acknowledge the existence of gays (and it is a criminal offense, to some cases leading to even capital punishment), they do permit sex change as a 'remedy' to the homosexual problem (what they perceive it to be), and desperate gays, lesbians and bisexuals will take any mean to avoid facing public flogging, capital punishment or a celibate life. This is a sad scenario actually - people who are comfortable with their gender and body are now forced to give it up for their love and relationship.
Most people don't turn homosexul, but are born that way either due to a variation in the hypothalamus or a gene passed on from father to son. Psycologists, in addition to these factors also consider environment to play a crucial role. I have posted the excerpt from Wikipedia that is in accordance with my earlier post and I posted a few other links as well which say much about the same thing. It is what I have understood and correct me if I'm wrongTongue. I'm no expert in homosexuality and if I have any misconception, more than willing to get it clearedEmbarrassed The part about childhood trauma seemed a possibility to me and thought besides the genetic reason, this could be a possibility as wellConfused
 
And no, I don't mean just the act. The act as such could be had for various reasons and as you say, men can have sexual relations with men and still have a wife and he cannot be called "gay".
 
I'm afraid I don't have any proof in the form of links to support my statement about Saudi Arabia. I read it in a book. It's called the Daughters of Arabia.
I'm searching for internet proof though, and the moment I find anything that supports or negates my statement, I shall definately post itSmile

TheUltimate

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TheUltimate

Joined: 19 July 2010

Posts: 788

Posted: 03 December 2011 at 6:21am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism

I don't think goal of a marriage is to have kids. Marriage is a union of two humans who wish to spend their life together. As simple as that. Many heterosexual couples too cannot conceive but that doesn't mean theirs is a failed marriage!! And, unlike most other animals, human beings do not mate only for reproduction.
Right. I also don't thik that the goal of a marriage is to have kids and nor should it be... if I had to define a marriage. Per the existing definition and design though,... yes, the goal is to have kids and management of heirdom.
 
Sure, those heterosexuals who cannot conceive can get married. In a grand scheme, it does not change the definition. If you must, consider it a loophole.

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 03 December 2011 at 10:07am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Petrouska

That's the whole point, they can, but they don't. There are a whole lot of sites which point out to the various health disadvantages of homosexuals. This is just one amongst many http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a02rStatistcs.html 
These sites must say that honosexuals have as much chances of acquiring AIDS or other STD as Hetrosexuals, but they don't. They say they are at a higher risk. Why? Yes, the problem can be minimized by awareness, but this is something that is easier said than done.


I'm sorry, I cannot accept your link as a valid citation for the risks of homosexuality. It is clearly one of the more anti-gay sites promoting traditional values. There are health risks associated with homosexuality, it is true that gay men cannot donate blood. But you are better of citing credible medical sites, surgeon general studies where the objective focus is health.

We can break down how and why homosexuals, especially gay men became a high risk group for STD and HIV.

What causes STDS
- unprotected sex
- multiple sex
- drug usage
- risky sex under drug use and alcohol

When homosexuality is a "crime" or suppressed in society as a taboo, gay people do not have resources for safe sex.
- since high schools, counselors and non profits are not talking to gay people about the risks and precautions to take
- since marriage, dating and relationships are not socially acceptable options and they may risk being outed, they resort to cruising or sex only relationships
- since many cannot come out, or face a lot of abuse when they come out, many resort to drug and alcohol usage due to depression

When homosexuality is legal and slowly gains social acceptance many of these risks associated with being gay are being minimized and the next generation of gay youth are well aware of sexual risks and try to live healthy sexual lifestyles.

Homosexuals may have a high concentration of STD, but thats just a correlation. Risky sexual behavior is the cause of STD, that is the only scientifically verified causation. Straight men and women who indulge in risky behavior pose the same risks. The high concentration of AIDS in Africa, India, Romania shows that STD risk is mostly due to lack of awareness and resources for safe sex. Of course it is not an overnight fix, it will take generations before the high concentration of STD amidst gay men is minimized to normal and safe levels. However, we ought to stop fixating on the correlations and focus on the causations.

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 03 December 2011 at 10:25am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Petrouska

 
And no, I don't mean just the act. The act as such could be had for various reasons and as you say, men can have sexual relations with men and still have a wife and he cannot be called "gay".


Yes in that case he is a bisexual or a gay in denial.

Prison rape, sexual activity in same sex hostels and similar activities are common, but they are actually not actual homosexuality. In these cases the person is not gay, nor do they experience desire for the same sex. They are people experiencing sexual desire. Since that sexual desire has been suppressed , they release their sexual desire in same sex relationships. Some people may end up being gay or bisexual due to statistical curves, but a lot are actually straight. They don't find these sexual interactions actually desirable and fulfilling, but just a way of blowing steam. Once the extreme social setting like prison or segregation of sexes has been removed, they phase back to their normal sexual orientation. They never got conditioned to be gay.

In North America there is a whole phenomenon called LUGs or LUMs, lesbian until graduation or marriage. Women who are actually interested in men, but make a choice to be lesbian a part of their life. Many of these are women who want to be sexually active, but not risk pregnancies or be distracted by relationships. Some are actually religious girls who wear promise rings of virginity until marriage, so they engage in lesbian sex because it does not violate the traditional definition of virginity. Then there is the whole slew of experimenting and bicurious men and women, whose sexual curiosity has been sparked by wider acceptance of homosexuality. There is a lot of debate if these people should be classified as LGBT or actually straight or bicurious tendencies are a whole new zone of their own.

I think in the end human sexuality is not black and white as we traditionally believe. We just can't put humans in boxes with labels and arrange them. Even gay, straight or bi does not fit always. Theres so many shades of gray, so many things that don't fit the norms or definitions or explanations. In the end people are just people who want to have sex and someday fall in love with someone.

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