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Aya.

IF-Dazzler

Aya.

Joined: 18 May 2012

Posts: 2715

Posted: 21 July 2012 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism

Originally posted by Aya.

Originally posted by Rehanism

Leave it dear Heart. Its futile to argue with such trolls. S/he has been making the same non-sequitur argument since her/his first post, along with silly comparisons and correlations to beg the question. S/he considers myths to be factual evidence and dogmas to be sound reason. S/he lives in her/his Abrahamic rat-hole and believes s/he's in a position to judge the entire universe. S/he has no grasp over reality or sensibility and yet considers her/himself to be the wisest and most morally upright person.

Lets leave her/him alone. This is not an argument at all. Its simply like beating your head on the wall.


You dam right I'm in a position to judge the entire universe !
& you're just mad !
I'm not the one here repeating same crap !
I told you to back up you're argument with facts & evidence, but you haven't .
Love love love, that's all I've been reading !
The world doesn't revolve around love !
If I live in a a Abrahamic rat-hole, then you live in a satanic rat-hole ! Big smile




You should be the one to provide evidence as you claimed that homosexuality leads to serious disease and its a sin bla bla bla...The burden of proof lies upon those who make claims. Yet when asked for an evidence you gave us the link to a silly myth of Sodom and tried to scare us with God's punishment.

You made irrelevant comparisons with polygamy and child rape, both of which are crimes in every civilized laws [not counting Islamic/Judaic laws as "civilized"]. Polygamy is an unequal, unfair and tribal practice. A 60 year old man sleeping with a teen/pre-teen is considered statutory rape as the child lacks the biological as well as psychological maturity to give consent. Homosexual union on the other hand is consensual relationship between two adults just like a heterosexual union. It neither violates anyone's human rights nor is it a sexual assault of any kind. There's no reason to consider it a crime of any sort. As I had mentioned earlier WHO, APA, Royal College of Psychiatrists and most reputed medical institutes have reached the consensus that homosexuality is not a mental disorder or disease. Its a sexual orientation like heterosexuality or bisexuality.

If you are seriously interested in researching on this topic you might go through these [preferably with an open mind]:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

http://www.apa.org/about/policy/sexual-orientation.aspx

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the-facts.aspx

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/113/6/1827.full

http://web.archive.org/web/20080611014113/http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pressparliament/pressreleases2008/pr14.aspx

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Biological+Exuberance:+Animal+Homosexuality+and+Natural+Diversity.-a053877996

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm

http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-do/health-topics/communicable-diseases/hivaids/news/news/2011/6/stop-discrimination-against-homosexual-men-and-women


FYI, Satan has a larger fanbase and is sexier than your God and he also turned down your God's proposal and that's the very reason God became a megalomaniac homophobe. Did u know that?Evil Smile

Serious illness like AIDS/HIV, but hey who am I talking to ?
Polygamy is equal & fair if BOTH parties are happy with it !
Again, a 60 year old & a teen if BOTH parties are happy with it !
If a guy can fall for a guy, you think a teenager can't fall for an old man or vice versa ? What happened to love & can't control your so called feelings ? You're delusional ! 

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Rehanism

IF-Dazzler

Rehanism

Joined: 07 August 2010

Posts: 3458

Posted: 21 July 2012 at 6:03pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.


Serious illness like AIDS/HIV, but hey who am I talking to ?
Polygamy is equal & fair if BOTH parties are happy with it !
Again, a 60 year old & a teen if BOTH parties are happy with it !
If a guy can fall for a guy, you think a teenager can't fall for an old man or vice versa ? What happened to love & can't control your so called feelings ? You're delusional ! 

AIDS is caused mainly due to unsafe sex and not homosexuality per se. If homosexuals practice safe sex, they are safe. Without safety measures, heteros are as much vulnerable to HIV and AIDS. Its true that AIDS have been detected among homosexuals in large numbers but that is largely because of the fact that the societies deny medical and psychological help to homosexuals. If there is proper sex education and doctors and NGOs openly instruct homosexuals on safe sex, there is no reason for them to contract HIV/AIDS.

Polygamy is unfair and unequal because it gives one gender greater right over another. It doesn't treat both genders with equality and thus violates human rights. Secondly, as I had said in another thread, societies that sanction polygamy are misogynistic and patriarchal to the core where women have no higher place than domestic cattle and they are completely dependent on menfolk and hence their consent is hardly a consent. Besides, there is a fear of incurring God's wrath since polygamy is a God sanctioned practice in Islam. So few would dare to speak against it - infact most would defend it, just as you are trying to do. Will any educated and independent person, without any religious inclination, belonging to a liberal society consent to multiple marriage of his/her spouse?

Pedophilia is a crime. An underage girl is incapable of providing consent and that is why it is called statutory rape in most civilized laws. We have something called age of consent which is a requisite to determine whether a sexual intercourse is rape or not. Most doctors agree that children under the age of 15-17 [completion of puberty, i.e.] are unfit for any sexual intercourse and hence if an adult has a sex with a child below the age of consent he/she is technically a rapist. But I completely understand why you are so defensive on this matter.Wink

Lastly, did you bother to read any of those articles that I had posted? Never mind. I know the answer.



Edited by Rehanism - 21 July 2012 at 6:31pm

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

Beyond_the_Veil

Aya.

IF-Dazzler

Aya.

Joined: 18 May 2012

Posts: 2715

Posted: 21 July 2012 at 9:25pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism

Originally posted by Aya.


Serious illness like AIDS/HIV, but hey who am I talking to ?
Polygamy is equal & fair if BOTH parties are happy with it !
Again, a 60 year old & a teen if BOTH parties are happy with it !
If a guy can fall for a guy, you think a teenager can't fall for an old man or vice versa ? What happened to love & can't control your so called feelings ? You're delusional ! 

AIDS is caused mainly due to unsafe sex and not homosexuality per se. If homosexuals practice safe sex, they are safe. Without safety measures, heteros are as much vulnerable to HIV and AIDS. Its true that AIDS have been detected among homosexuals in large numbers but that is largely because of the fact that the societies deny medical and psychological help to homosexuals. If there is proper sex education and doctors and NGOs openly instruct homosexuals on safe sex, there is no reason for them to contract HIV/AIDS.

Polygamy is unfair and unequal because it gives one gender greater right over another. It doesn't treat both genders with equality and thus violates human rights. Secondly, as I had said in another thread, societies that sanction polygamy are misogynistic and patriarchal to the core where women have no higher place than domestic cattle and they are completely dependent on menfolk and hence their consent is hardly a consent. Besides, there is a fear of incurring God's wrath since polygamy is a God sanctioned practice in Islam. So few would dare to speak against it - infact most would defend it, just as you are trying to do. Will any educated and independent person, without any religious inclination, belonging to a liberal society consent to multiple marriage of his/her spouse?

Pedophilia is a crime. An underage girl is incapable of providing consent and that is why it is called statutory rape in most civilized laws. We have something called age of consent which is a requisite to determine whether a sexual intercourse is rape or not. Most doctors agree that children under the age of 15-17 [completion of puberty, i.e.] are unfit for any sexual intercourse and hence if an adult has a sex with a child below the age of consent he/she is technically a rapist. But I completely understand why you are so defensive on this matter.Wink

Lastly, did you bother to read any of those articles that I had posted? Never mind. I know the answer.


@blue - BINGO ! Enough said .

@red - Almost everywhere in the world, girls under the age of 18 are pregnant by 20/30 year old men ! What do you have to say about that smart one ? ; )

Get one thing clear, polygamy in Islam solves many of the social problems we see everyday in west . No women is forced to marry a man who already has a wife, nor is she forced to stay with her husband if he decides to marry another one, but if he talks to her about it & she's fine with it then he can ! There are many single women out there who are willing to marry a guy who has 2/3 wives, as long as he is fair and a good husband and father ! My cousin is married to a guy who has a 2nd wife, and she is ok with it, because he completes her every needs ! so, don't tell me it's wrong ! Girls are forced to marry only in India, because they are poor and they have low social status compared to men . That is why you hear of torture being done to them in many ways all the time (forced abortion, abuse, acid thrown on them) .

So, there are rules ! A guy can't just marry 4 women like that ! Where else, in the west, you can play around with so many girls & get away with it ! Human rights much ? HA !

Polygamy is also fine, because they're unmarried women who can't find husbands & widows who need help . Plus, the population of women is higher than men, so if every man found a partner, then a lot of women would be left without the opportunity to marry .
In the west it is illegal to have more than one wife, but you can have as much mistresses as you want, without fear of prosecution . Wow ! that really sounds "fair" enough, doesn't it ?
Miss so called human rights !


Edited by Aya. - 22 July 2012 at 4:12am

Heart

Senior Member

Heart

Joined: 06 November 2011

Posts: 405

Posted: 22 July 2012 at 2:14am | IP Logged
HIV AIDS might have been detected in homosexuals in large numbers, but it has been detected in heterosexuals as well. Does not prove anything. And that does not prove why homosexuality is "unnatural" or "sinful" 
I'm absolutely disgusted that you think that way and I'm sorry, sorry that you have witness such brutality and you're completely okay with it. But the point is homosexuality and not your friends life, or not guy who got 4 girls pregnant or not some guy who has 4 wives and they all are in they are all living in their lala land. Stick to the topic! 
If you believe in god, good for you, may you go to heaven, but please stick to the topic while you're on earth! 
Secondly, you say that we have no proof for why homosexuality is not correct but you've just been ignoring the proofs we both have put it up. I am not going to bang my head against the wall and explain you anything again.
And do not say you have proved your point, because anyone who reads the post will know that clearly you have not. You're just blabbering about something weird and it is frustrating me. At one point you even got personal but I did not report it. So there it is, I have proved you my point and I am going to stand by it. 

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

Rehanism

Aya.

IF-Dazzler

Aya.

Joined: 18 May 2012

Posts: 2715

Posted: 22 July 2012 at 3:58am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Heart

HIV AIDS might have been detected in homosexuals in large numbers, but it has been detected in heterosexuals as well. Does not prove anything. And that does not prove why homosexuality is "unnatural" or "sinful" 
I'm absolutely disgusted that you think that way and I'm sorry, sorry that you have witness such brutality and you're completely okay with it. But the point is homosexuality and not your friends life, or not guy who got 4 girls pregnant or not some guy who has 4 wives and they all are in they are all living in their lala land. Stick to the topic! 
If you believe in god, good for you, may you go to heaven, but please stick to the topic while you're on earth! 
Secondly, you say that we have no proof for why homosexuality is not correct but you've just been ignoring the proofs we both have put it up. I am not going to bang my head against the wall and explain you anything again.
And do not say you have proved your point, because anyone who reads the post will know that clearly you have not. You're just blabbering about something weird and it is frustrating me. At one point you even got personal but I did not report it. So there it is, I have proved you my point and I am going to stand by it. 

It's enough proof that you've admitted it that it does cause AIDS/HIV ! In happens in heteros because of adultery ! But if they were to stick with one person instead of jumping like a rabbit to another person every month/week, then it wouldn't happen ! Oh I am sticking to the topic, but you see when you debate, you're bound to move on & talk about something else, which leads us to a conclusion !
Yes, you do not whatsoever have any dam proof ! Telling me it's love, people have accepted it, it's safe, isn't proof enough, because right now you've just said that it DOES cause AIDS/HIV in LARGE numbers ! So, basically it isn't SAFE
People have accepted it ? I'm sorry who are those people ? You & your so called gay supporters ?
The ONLY places where gay "marriage" is approved are in Canada, Argentina, South Africa, Spain, Iceland, Norway, & Sweden . Holy crap ! Sounds like a lot of people/countries have accepted it ! Right ? So yea, next time don't say the WHOLE universe has accepted it ! There goes your so called little "proof !" I'm not blabbering something weird ! I'm talking common sense here ! You're talking nonsense ! I've given you evidence which you have clearly chosen to ignore, because you didn't like it ! The people of Lot in the town of Sodom in Palestine is not a made up thing . It did happen, there is proof, 4/5th of the world knows about it, but if you were born yesterday & don't know anything about history, then that's completely a different story ! You & I can keep on debating til we reach up to 50 pgs. I have no problem at all ! Big smile


Edited by Aya. - 25 July 2012 at 6:35pm

Heart

Senior Member

Heart

Joined: 06 November 2011

Posts: 405

Posted: 22 July 2012 at 5:26am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

Originally posted by Heart

HIV AIDS might have been detected in homosexuals in large numbers, but it has been detected in heterosexuals as well. Does not prove anything. And that does not prove why homosexuality is "unnatural" or "sinful" 
I'm absolutely disgusted that you think that way and I'm sorry, sorry that you have witness such brutality and you're completely okay with it. But the point is homosexuality and not your friends life, or not guy who got 4 girls pregnant or not some guy who has 4 wives and they all are in they are all living in their lala land. Stick to the topic! 
If you believe in god, good for you, may you go to heaven, but please stick to the topic while you're on earth! 
Secondly, you say that we have no proof for why homosexuality is not correct but you've just been ignoring the proofs we both have put it up. I am not going to bang my head against the wall and explain you anything again.
And do not say you have proved your point, because anyone who reads the post will know that clearly you have not. You're just blabbering about something weird and it is frustrating me. At one point you even got personal but I did not report it. So there it is, I have proved you my point and I am going to stand by it. 

It's enough proof that you've admitted it that it does cause AIDS/HIV ! In happens in heteros because of adultery ! But if they were to stick with one person instead of jumping like a rabbit to another person every month/week, then it wouldn't happen ! Oh I am sticking to the topic, but you see when you debate, you're bound to move on & talk about something else, which leads us to a conclusion !
Yes, you do not whatsoever have any dam proof ! Telling me it's love, people have accepted it, it's safe, isn't proof enough, because right now you've just said that it DOES cause AIDS/HIV in LARGE numbers ! So, basically it isn't SAFE
People have accepted it ? I'm sorry who are those people ? You & your so called gay supporters ?
The ONLY places where gay "marriage" is approved are in Canada, Argentina, South Africa, Spain, Iceland, Norway, & Sweden . Holy crap ! Sounds like a lot of people/countries have accepted it ! Right ? So yea, next time don't say the WHOLE universe has accepted it ! There goes your so called little "proof !" I'm not blabbering something weird ! I'm talking common sense here ! You're talking nonsense ! I've given you evidence which you have clearly chosen to ignore, because you didn't like the it ! The people of Lot in the town of Sodom in Palestine is not a made up thing . It did happen, there is proof, 4/5th of the world knows about it, but if you were born yesterday & don't know anything about history, then that's completely a different story ! You & I can keep on debating til we reach up to 50 pgs. I have no problem at all ! Big smile

If you understand english, I said "might". You can google the meaning if you want. Do you really believe homosexuality causes HIV AIDS? ROFL. Talking about personal stuff does not make you lead to a conclusion, it just makes you beat around the bush. If you want to talk about it, there are so many threads on polygamy in the forum why don't you just go and comment there? 
Yeah, you just reminded me, you said you had given me 100s of reason why homosexuality is wrong. I told you that you just gave me two (go and check the page), I am still waiting for the other 98 reasons. I gave you 4-5 with links and solid proof, so do not act blind and stupid and go back and read it before you say anything. 
If that is the case then you just called all the debaters who supported homosexuality gay. Wow, way to go getting personal, delusional and blind! 
Wanna talk about the countries that have accepted it?
Wow, delusional and dramatic! Looks like this thread is going to have way more than 50 pages! :P 

Heart

Senior Member

Heart

Joined: 06 November 2011

Posts: 405

Posted: 22 July 2012 at 5:29am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

Originally posted by Heart

HIV AIDS might have been detected in homosexuals in large numbers, but it has been detected in heterosexuals as well. Does not prove anything. And that does not prove why homosexuality is "unnatural" or "sinful" 
I'm absolutely disgusted that you think that way and I'm sorry, sorry that you have witness such brutality and you're completely okay with it. But the point is homosexuality and not your friends life, or not guy who got 4 girls pregnant or not some guy who has 4 wives and they all are in they are all living in their lala land. Stick to the topic! 
If you believe in god, good for you, may you go to heaven, but please stick to the topic while you're on earth! 
Secondly, you say that we have no proof for why homosexuality is not correct but you've just been ignoring the proofs we both have put it up. I am not going to bang my head against the wall and explain you anything again.
And do not say you have proved your point, because anyone who reads the post will know that clearly you have not. You're just blabbering about something weird and it is frustrating me. At one point you even got personal but I did not report it. So there it is, I have proved you my point and I am going to stand by it. 

It's enough proof that you've admitted it that it does cause AIDS/HIV ! In happens in heteros because of adultery ! But if they were to stick with one person instead of jumping like a rabbit to another person every month/week, then it wouldn't happen ! Oh I am sticking to the topic, but you see when you debate, you're bound to move on & talk about something else, which leads us to a conclusion !
Yes, you do not whatsoever have any dam proof ! Telling me it's love, people have accepted it, it's safe, isn't proof enough, because right now you've just said that it DOES cause AIDS/HIV in LARGE numbers ! So, basically it isn't SAFE
People have accepted it ? I'm sorry who are those people ? You & your so called gay supporters ?
The ONLY places where gay "marriage" is approved are in Canada, Argentina, South Africa, Spain, Iceland, Norway, & Sweden . Holy crap ! Sounds like a lot of people/countries have accepted it ! Right ? So yea, next time don't say the WHOLE universe has accepted it ! There goes your so called little "proof !" I'm not blabbering something weird ! I'm talking common sense here ! You're talking nonsense ! I've given you evidence which you have clearly chosen to ignore, because you didn't like the it ! The people of Lot in the town of Sodom in Palestine is not a made up thing . It did happen, there is proof, 4/5th of the world knows about it, but if you were born yesterday & don't know anything about history, then that's completely a different story ! You & I can keep on debating til we reach up to 50 pgs. I have no problem at all ! Big smile

@red: Wow, for a person who is fine with polygamy aren't you contradicting your statement? Are you confused? Make up your mind first and then we'll debate! 


Edited by Heart - 22 July 2012 at 5:28am

Rehanism

IF-Dazzler

Rehanism

Joined: 07 August 2010

Posts: 3458

Posted: 22 July 2012 at 8:15am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aya.

Originally posted by Rehanism

Originally posted by Aya.


Serious illness like AIDS/HIV, but hey who am I talking to ?
Polygamy is equal & fair if BOTH parties are happy with it !
Again, a 60 year old & a teen if BOTH parties are happy with it !
If a guy can fall for a guy, you think a teenager can't fall for an old man or vice versa ? What happened to love & can't control your so called feelings ? You're delusional ! 

AIDS is caused mainly due to unsafe sex and not homosexuality per se. If homosexuals practice safe sex, they are safe. Without safety measures, heteros are as much vulnerable to HIV and AIDS. Its true that AIDS have been detected among homosexuals in large numbers but that is largely because of the fact that the societies deny medical and psychological help to homosexuals. If there is proper sex education and doctors and NGOs openly instruct homosexuals on safe sex, there is no reason for them to contract HIV/AIDS.

Polygamy is unfair and unequal because it gives one gender greater right over another. It doesn't treat both genders with equality and thus violates human rights. Secondly, as I had said in another thread, societies that sanction polygamy are misogynistic and patriarchal to the core where women have no higher place than domestic cattle and they are completely dependent on menfolk and hence their consent is hardly a consent. Besides, there is a fear of incurring God's wrath since polygamy is a God sanctioned practice in Islam. So few would dare to speak against it - infact most would defend it, just as you are trying to do. Will any educated and independent person, without any religious inclination, belonging to a liberal society consent to multiple marriage of his/her spouse?

Pedophilia is a crime. An underage girl is incapable of providing consent and that is why it is called statutory rape in most civilized laws. We have something called age of consent which is a requisite to determine whether a sexual intercourse is rape or not. Most doctors agree that children under the age of 15-17 [completion of puberty, i.e.] are unfit for any sexual intercourse and hence if an adult has a sex with a child below the age of consent he/she is technically a rapist. But I completely understand why you are so defensive on this matter.Wink

Lastly, did you bother to read any of those articles that I had posted? Never mind. I know the answer.


@blue - BINGO ! Enough said .

@red - Almost everywhere in the world, girls under the age of 18 are pregnant by 20/30 year old men ! What do you have to say about that smart one ? ; )

Get one thing clear, polygamy in Islam solves many of the social problems we see everyday in west . No women is forced to marry a man who already has a wife, nor is she forced to stay with her husband if he decides to marry another one, but if he talks to her about it & she's fine with it then he can ! There are many single women out there who are willing to marry a guy who has 2/3 wives, as long as he is fair and a good husband and father ! My cousin is married to a guy who has a 2nd wife, and she is ok with it, because he completes her every needs ! so, don't tell me it's wrong ! Girls are forced to marry only in India, because they are poor and they have low social status compared to men . That is why you hear of torture being done to them in many ways all the time (forced abortion, abuse, acid thrown on them) .

So, there are rules ! A guy can't just marry 4 women like that ! Where else, in the west, you can play around with so many girls & get away with it ! Human rights much ? HA !

Polygamy is also fine, because they're unmarried women who can't find husbands & widows who need help . Plus, the population of women is higher than men, so if every man found a partner, then a lot of women would be left without the opportunity to marry .
In the west it is illegal to have more than one wife, but you can have as much mistresses as you want, without fear of prosecution . Wow ! that really sounds "fair" enough, doesn't it ?
Miss so called human rights !

You are one exceptionally hardened troll. You are deliberately ignoring reason and bugging on the same point with fictitious assumptions. HIV AIDS is caused by unsafe sex in both heteros and homos. No where did any of us admit that Homosexuality is the *cause* of AIDS or any other STD. That's like saying - *Polio has been detected more among poor people. Therefore poverty causes polio.* Well, N-O!!... Poverty doesn't cause polio. Lack of vaccination risks polio infection. Poor people lack awareness and access to proper medical facilities which makes them more vulnerable to polio and other diseases. Similarly there is lack of awareness among homosexuals due to social stigma associated with homosexuality. Most societies refuse help or guidance to homosexuals and force them to live like outcasts. If homosexuals are given proper guidance with sex education and use proper safety measures there is no good reason for them to contract HIV AIDS. If you had bothered to read any of those links I had posted this would have been more than clear to you. But you are as presumptuous as ever in  turning CORRELATION into CAUSATION. Show me a single opinion from any reputed or universally recognized health organization/research institute that claims Homosexuality is the CAUSE of HIV AIDS..Can you?

Just because something is prevalent - be it in India or else where - that doesn't make it a great practice. You are using the fallacy of tu-quoque here. Besides, pedophilia means having sex with a girl/boy who is not physically and mentally mature enough to provide consent and hence its statutory rape almost everywhere, except in Islamic states, i.e. No one can get away with it if the crime is reported.

Population of women is more than men? Typically blind and uninformed Zakir Naik-ish argument. The global sex ratio is 984 females per 1000 males; the only age group where sex ratio is less than 1 - i.e., female>male - is 65+ and very few people get married at that age. Most countries - including entire Muslim world - has got more males than females in the below 65 age group. Secondly, I made it very clear that polygamy is a direct violation of human rights since it gives one gender more legal rights than other and hence no civilized law practices it. Promiscuity has got nothing to do with human rights as it is not a legally guaranteed right. I don't know which Western country allows man to keep mistresses and that too multiple
!!
Please enlighten me.LOL But as far as I know, Islam allows man to keep unspecified numbers of sex slaves and concubines, known as *right hand possession*, in addition to 4 wives.Wink

As for women okaying it, I can show you reports and studies where an astonishing majority of women have claimed that wife beating is okay. Because that is how their minds are socially conditioned - they grow up believing in their inferior and subservient status in the society and additionally, lack of economic independence along with religious indoctrination leaves them with no choice but to accept such unfair practices. That doesn't make it a healthy practice. Does it? Domestic abuse is as much a crime as polygamy or statutory rape. For any law to be sanctioned in 21st century, unlike the medieval laws, one needs to consider the ideas of equality, liberty, fairness and human rights. And its time we consign the *divine* laws of the medieval to their rightful place - the dustbin of history.

But anyways lets not divert from the topic. Its not about polygamy or pedophilia or anything else. Its about homosexuality. Stick to it. And please read the posts and the references carefully before jumping into senseless conclusions.



Edited by Rehanism - 22 July 2012 at 1:23pm

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