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what is the point of debates? (Page 11)

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souro

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souro

Joined: 27 January 2007

Posts: 13718

Posted: 02 March 2007 at 7:35am | IP Logged

Well Lighthouse seems to be leaving, so if she allows me I'll take up from where she left. CB you're comparing debating with street fighting and tamasha because of the fun factor involved. Ok...I agree both have it's unique fun and interest factor. However, can you really compare street fights with debates?? If it's nothing better than tamasha then why do people come here instead of enjoying 'boxing' or 'WWE'??

If all the debaters come here only to seek some excuse to fight, won't they be doing it with each and everybody instead of appreciating someone and agreeing with other people when they make a valid point. If they don't learn anything why would they care to appreciate??

When you're in a street fight, do you pick and choose your opponent, like if he's an idiot I won't fight and when you're fighting do you care about logic, but in debates people prefer to argue with those who have some education/ knowledge and debaters always take care to use logic (valid or invalid) in whatever they say, otherwise the whole exercise becomes futile as it seems to be a waste of energy and no learning comes out of it.

You asked why we even care to read books then, when we can learn so much from debates. Here you're missing one point, you cannot debate without some basic knowledge about the topic and the more knowledge you have the better. Another factor is, when you're reading about a subject, you're alone and the ideas that you form are mostly influenced by the writer and to some extent by your own judgement, which remains pretty much one-sided. When you're discussing or debating the same subject, you can come to know some other ideas or concepts or POVs or simply another way to look at the topic which you had failed even to imagine can exist. If we can tolerate the fact that others can disprove us, we can always learn something from debates. Now you'll say that in DM, most of the time both sides are not convinced of the other's POV, but that's because we sometimes fail to present convincing reasons supporting our POV and sometimes it also happens that both parties are correct the only difference is from which side they're looking at the subject.

 



Edited by souro - 02 March 2007 at 7:36am

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IdeaQueen

IF-Dazzler

IdeaQueen

Joined: 23 August 2006

Posts: 3152

Posted: 02 March 2007 at 8:28am | IP Logged

 It seems lighthouse ji lit the torch like this:

and she is passing the torch to all like this:

 But where is this torch leading to you or whom is this torch leading to Wink

Cheers,

Mythili

 

chatbuster

IF-Rockerz

chatbuster

Deactivated on request

Joined: 13 January 2006

Posts: 7780

Posted: 02 March 2007 at 8:43am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lighthouse

 I suggest you go back and read 10 pages of this thread.. The answers from real people lie in there. I can garaunty that it is as real as it gets and not some cockamamie theory.

 If a nuclear bomb were to hit us , we are not going to sit here and discuss nuclear physics..!!!!!

trueSmile

but so much of those 10 pages and opinions from "real people" was devoted to (1) why people come to DM (2) why people "participate" silently rather than debate. both off-topic from "why debate" imo. btw, you might not care for the street-fight analogy but for me that is as plausible a reason as others you advanced, and it pertained to the more on-topic question of "why debate". further it was not the only example cited though it somehow became the "focal point".Smile

also, very generally and not directed at you, am not sure one gets too much learning done when one just slings around worthy quotes from others, mischaracterizes another person's position, and provides reasoning that centers on "senior members" etc. Would like the ideas to speak for themselves, not run behind personalities and hierachical pecking orders.Smile

will leave you with this thought- we seldom get addicted to learning in RL- whether it's schoolkids, chess players, or movie watchers who want to learn story telling etc. Yet we so easily accept the stated "learning" reasons for why we debate given some of our own addictions here? fine. i just did not think it was the primary reason, and sorry if i cant really be bothered if someone disagrees as long as the focus remained on "why debate".Smile

 



Edited by chatbuster - 02 March 2007 at 8:55am

lighthouse

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lighthouse

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 2842

Posted: 02 March 2007 at 10:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

trueSmile

also, very generally and not directed at you, am not sure one gets too much learning done when one just slings around worthy quotes from others, mischaracterizes another person's position, and provides reasoning that centers on "senior members" etc. Would like the ideas to speak for themselves, not run behind personalities and hierachical pecking orders.Smile

will leave you with this thought- we seldom get addicted to learning in RL- whether it's schoolkids, chess players, or movie watchers who want to learn story telling etc. Yet we so easily accept the stated "learning" reasons for why we debate given some of our own addictions here? fine. i just did not think it was the primary reason, and sorry if i cant really be bothered if someone disagrees as long as the focus remained on "why debate".Smile

  Big smileIt depends on the person and the stage of life that person is in... Insatiable thirst for knowledge and curiosity is omnipresent no matter what and is driving force .  Isn't that why we watch TV channels like Discovery, TLC or even O'reily beating up on his guest... I surely learned something from watching him or  Red carpet Oscar preview hour.

 Honestly I enjoy reading views and have learnt a lot from many members on IF including yourself. Embarrassed.  I think we are so stuck in rut of our daily lives and having to learn stuff for work or finances that coming here and reading or being able to participate in healthy discussion on matters we don't get to see otherwise is refreshing. And I am begining to have fun too. Big smile

 



Edited by lighthouse - 02 March 2007 at 10:29am

Mindbender

IF-Sizzlerz

Mindbender

Joined: 21 October 2008

Posts: 15873

Posted: 15 April 2009 at 11:34pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by mkzara

this is a cute little topic. i see a lot of people on DM who say lets not talk about this topic anymore because u cant change someone's views and there's no point in debating if u dont have a chance. i dont feel that way. i think the point of debating is to let the other side know how u feel, u tell them what u stand for and listen to what they stand for. the point of a debate is ideally to convince someone but really to just open up their mind to things so everyone can see everyone else's opinion. i just believe debating is done to let other see and understand ur point of view even if they dont agree with it.

I think it totally depends upon the issue at hand. There are certain debates where you'll have a clear cut right or wrong......however such debates are rare or rather not debateable cos there is indeed a clear cut right or wrong ! However, almost all debates lie in the gray zone......wherein you can argue on pts of others POV while respecting it. I truly feel that the goal of the debate should be to bring the other to your side of the spectrum........but just be a realist in your expectationsLOL

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