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Justice (Page 2)

Summer3 IF-Stunnerz

Joined: 24 September 2007
Posts: 44406

Posted: 14 November 2011 at 12:52am | IP Logged
If one really wants to instill fear into the hearts of the criminals they could be thrown into a pit of Crocs or Lions ?
Most hardened criminals are not afraid of Death, so some form of torture would instill greater fear. But all this may be too cruel even for criminals.

return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 23843

Posted: 14 November 2011 at 8:17am | IP Logged
Originally posted by souro

Giving a second chance is desirable and is indeed a noble thought. However, one must question how effective it is. Going by the experience that we've had so far with the reformative way of punishment, I can confidently say that so far it has proved to be ineffective on both counts that it was supposed to serve - reforming criminals and reducing crime. Now that can mean 2 things:
1. The idea itself is wrong, OR
2. The idea is good but it's implementation has been incorrect, i.e. we need to devise a better way to reform criminals

To some extent I think that yes the idea is wrong but I think an even bigger reason for it's failure is the way the whole thing has been implemented. I feel various machines and organisations in 'modern' society act overzealously to monitor the rights and comforts of criminals. To get the epithet of 'Modern' & 'Progressive' many societies have outlawed several practices when it comes to dealing with crime and criminals. Punishments which are retributive in nature is one such measure that has lost favour and has been replaced by reformative actions. With so many people to look after their rights, to redress their every inconvenience, criminals have become a pampered lot. Some even attaining celebrity status and getting the chance to promote their skewed views and ideologies to gullible public, thanks to various interviews to TV channels and newspapers.

However, in all this, I don't see the victim in the whole wide picture? What is in it for the victim? Why should we care so much about reforming the criminal while ignoring the victim and what s/he wants in return of what s/he had to bear? Who should be the priority, criminal or victim?

P.S. - Talking about India only.

I think consistent, effective and fair justice is the major problem in India. The problem is that the choice between retribution and reform is inconsistently applied. Too many high profile cases are not seen as a matter of justice, but a matter of political games. Justice becomes secondary to how a politician can use the case as a platform.


The issue of human rights also is illogically and inconsistently applied. A desperately poor person who broke into a house or robbed a bank at gunpoint maybe a candidate for reform because they may not actually have a criminal mentality but act so because of lack of education and resources. On the other hand a gruesome rapist or a terrorist does not deserve sympathy or reform because they are mentally hardened to think criminally.  Unfortunately, most justice systems seem to be spending too much money on keeping the worst bad guys safe while the teenage drug dealer whose life could have been saved is ignored and let to become worse.


Victims are important, but I think long term societal impact should be the most primary concern. Someone who has been robbed or cheated may feel retributive and not want the system  to act reformative, but reformation maybe good for society in the long run. But there are other cases like serial killers or terrorists where the societal impact is congruent with the victims – retribution is the only way to make society safer as well as give closure to victims.

Summer3 IF-Stunnerz

Joined: 24 September 2007
Posts: 44406

Posted: 16 November 2011 at 9:19pm | IP Logged
Speaking of justice I wonder why all this took so long ?
16 November 2011 Last updated at 19:31 GMT


India 'honour killers' face death for 1991 murders

Caste council meeting (file photo) Caste leaders frown upon marriages within the same sub-caste

A judge in India has sentenced eight men to death and 20 others to life imprisonment for three so-called honour killings that took place in 1991.

The men were found guilty of murdering a Dalit boy and a girl from a higher caste who had eloped together, as well as the boy's cousin.

All three were set alight and hanged, the court in Uttar Pradesh state heard.

A BBC correspondent says the sentences are some of the most severe ever recorded in a such a case.

Earlier this year India's Supreme Court ordered states to stamp out "honour killings, saying people found guilty of such crimes should face execution. Convictions in such cases often carry life sentences.

The death penalty is awarded only very rarely in India - when executions are authorised they can be delayed for years on appeal.

Genitals burned

Age-old notions of tradition and family honour are still deeply entrenched in many parts of Indian society.

According to one recent study, hundreds of people are killed each year for falling in love or marrying outside their caste or against their families' wishes.

Often "honour" crimes are endorsed, or even encouraged, by village-based caste councils or panchayats.

The court in Mathura in Uttar Pradesh heard how Vijander, a Dalit boy, had eloped with his girlfriend, Roshni. She was a member of the higher-caste Jaat community and from the same village, Mehrana, near the border with Haryana state.

The couple returned to Mehrana a few days later thinking anger would have subsided, the BBC's Ram Dutt Tripathi in Lucknow reports.

But village elders decreed they be killed, along with Vijander's cousin Ram Kishan, who had helped them elope.

The killings took place on 22 March 1991 and were brutal - the court heard how the genitals of the deceased were burned before they were hanged from a tree.

The case came to light because the parents of the boys lodged a case against the council for ordering the killings, our correspondent says.

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_Angie_ IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 21 February 2008
Posts: 10160

Posted: 19 November 2011 at 10:24am | IP Logged

Whether retributive or reformative , as far as the victim is concerned there can hardly ever be justice.

How does one do justice to one who has had his near and dear one killed (either intentionally or accidentally)? Are we in anyway able to compensate for the lost life, the sorrow felt by the family  or even  the financial loss that may be caused by the death of that person? I dont think so.

In a case of a person who has lost his reputation by being  wrongly implicated in a case , what can R or R justice do to restore the mental peace, opportunities and the lost years till  his innocence was proved?

There would be many such cases where the damage done is irreparable. At the most the victims  may derive some temporary satisfaction that the perpetrator  has been convicted and punished. That too could take decades in India, if at all! For society, the most it can do is learn a lesson and try to prevent a recurrence. Reformative or retributive  punishment (I wouldnt like to use the term justice) assumes secondary place; primary aim must be to find and implement ways to prevent a similar crime or mishap from recurring.

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