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souro

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souro

Joined: 27 January 2007

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Posted: 11 November 2011 at 9:19am | IP Logged
Retributive or Reformative, which type of justice do you feel is more effective and desirable?

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return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

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Posted: 11 November 2011 at 10:14am | IP Logged

That is a difficult question and I like capital punishment, I've not been able to decide what the best justice system would be like.

 

However, I am inclined to choose reformation over retribution on the following grounds

-          Retribution has been proven to be ineffective as a deterrent. Harsher punishments, enforcement of capital punishment etc have had no effect on reducing crime rates.

-          Retribution treats the symptoms, while reformation tries to treat the disease. Reformation is actually addressing the cause of the crime and tries to alter criminal behavior, hence actually making society safer.

-          Retribution actually lets criminals walk free sometimes. If a case is not strong enough, people feel guilty punishing someone with death or life imprisonment based on the 'what ifs'. Sometimes people also feel bad about circumstances and don't convict because they think the prosecution is too harsh. However, if the punishment is not as severe and complemented with reformation, people are more comfortable handing out the guilty verdict. Reformation also seems fair enough even if people feel bad about the circumstance. So the guilty verdict and punishment will actually be handed out more frequently.

 

The arguments against reformation and my counters are

-          It is not cost effective and invests too much time and money in reforming. I would counter that with the prison overcrowding problem. Prison systems are spending way too much money keeping convicts inside and having to take care of their basic health, education, well being etc. Better people do that outside on their own instead of on tax payer money.

-          Some people cannot be reformed and sometimes it is not fair to victims. Perhaps we can have a psychiatric panel to determine if reformation is a viable outcome.

Summer3

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Summer3

Joined: 24 September 2007

Posts: 44229

Posted: 11 November 2011 at 10:28am | IP Logged
I think everyone deserves a second chance and capital punishment should be the last resort.
A mix of both reformative and retributive punishment is needed.
Singapore canes those charged serious crimes. But it is pretty cruel even though effective in acting as a deterrent.

Rehanism

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Rehanism

Joined: 07 August 2010

Posts: 3458

Posted: 12 November 2011 at 8:30am | IP Logged
I would prefer Reformative justice and I normally oppose capital punishment or any punishment which does long term physical and mental damage to the criminal. In fact, I do not consider retribution to be justice at all. Retribution is simply a quest for vengeance to quench our (temporary) hatred and anger towards the criminal, and not the crime itself. Something which is solely driven by a surge of hatred and anger cannot be righteous and hence it cannot be called justice. Justice is that which is guided by conscience, an unbiased rationale and respect for human life.

Some countries advocate brutal punishments like chopping off people's limbs for thievery or stoning them publicly for adultery with the pretext that fear of punishment would ensure crime-free society. Not only is this idea of legal terrorism gravely inhuman and barbaric to say the least, but essentially its asinine as well. Fear of brutal punishments or death can never possibly ensure a civilized and crime-free world; it does exactly the opposite in the long term - it makes humans even more bestial and far less sympathetic towards fellow human life. If an idle mind is devil's workshop, then a scared mind is actually devil's breeding ground.

I had said this in an earlier post and I would repeat it again, I have great faith in this statement - "An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind".


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Summer3

souro

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souro

Joined: 27 January 2007

Posts: 13889

Posted: 12 November 2011 at 9:11am | IP Logged
Giving a second chance is desirable and is indeed a noble thought. However, one must question how effective it is. Going by the experience that we've had so far with the reformative way of punishment, I can confidently say that so far it has proved to be ineffective on both counts that it was supposed to serve - reforming criminals and reducing crime. Now that can mean 2 things:
1. The idea itself is wrong, OR
2. The idea is good but it's implementation has been incorrect, i.e. we need to devise a better way to reform criminals

To some extent I think that yes the idea is wrong but I think an even bigger reason for it's failure is the way the whole thing has been implemented. I feel various machines and organisations in 'modern' society act overzealously to monitor the rights and comforts of criminals. To get the epithet of 'Modern' & 'Progressive' many societies have outlawed several practices when it comes to dealing with crime and criminals. Punishments which are retributive in nature is one such measure that has lost favour and has been replaced by reformative actions. With so many people to look after their rights, to redress their every inconvenience, criminals have become a pampered lot. Some even attaining celebrity status and getting the chance to promote their skewed views and ideologies to gullible public, thanks to various interviews to TV channels and newspapers.

However, in all this, I don't see the victim in the whole wide picture? What is in it for the victim? Why should we care so much about reforming the criminal while ignoring the victim and what s/he wants in return of what s/he had to bear? Who should be the priority, criminal or victim?

P.S. - Talking about India only.


Edited by souro - 12 November 2011 at 9:21am

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Summer3

Summer3

IF-Stunnerz

Summer3

Joined: 24 September 2007

Posts: 44229

Posted: 13 November 2011 at 9:14pm | IP Logged
 
Yes punishments meted out should be fair and humane.
 
Often those that repeatedly perform crimes knowingly have serious mental problems and their way of thinking is all wrong. Some are brain washed ( like the terrorists) and need to be brought back to reality; but it is not an easy task as most countries cannot spare the resources and care. Introduction to proper religious techings have helped in some cases.
 
Some take the view that a leopard will never change its spots. But given time many do change as their thinking and reasoning mature.

TheUltimate

Senior Member

TheUltimate

Joined: 19 July 2010

Posts: 788

Posted: 13 November 2011 at 9:25pm | IP Logged
The only thing wrong about capital punishment is its inconsistency. The opposing of capital punishment is not a smart thing to do at all. IF a person is convicted beyond reasonable doubt of a murder, should he be given the right to live till his/her natural death with a possibility of a parole? Oh, and did I mention while in prison, he can read his favorite books, watch some tv, follow his favorite teams, meet his relatives, see his kids grow and some..
 
One needs to have a deep thought about the victim and his/her family. A life in prison with a great possibility of parole after some years... does not sound like a great deterrent to me.
 
Restoration does not work either. What kind of restoration techniques would one apply even in relatively small crimes such as theft?
 
I would much rather spend my tax $$$ in keeping society safer than useless things like last meals for death row inmates.

Vinzy

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Vinzy

Joined: 03 December 2005

Posts: 26813

Posted: 13 November 2011 at 11:52pm | IP Logged
Some cases , I think 90% people accpet the Capital panishment...for Eg. Kasaab model cases...but its true that death penalty same like  an eye for an eye thing...Smile

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