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+* Pandava parivar *+ (Page 9)

Poll Question: Who is your favorite Pandava queen?

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..RamKiJanaki.. IF-Stunnerz
..RamKiJanaki..
..RamKiJanaki..

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Posts: 45685

Posted: 14 November 2011 at 5:39am | IP Logged
I have one question. Wasn't Babruvahana the son of Chitrangada? Why did Uloopi raise him in place of his biological mother? I thought Chitrangada remained behind at her natal home after marriage, as per Arjuna's promise.
 
I know this was probably mentioned in the previous pages, but when did Uloopi and Chitrangada come to live at Indraprastha with Arjuna? They didn't come right after marriage like most women, did they?
 
@Vibhishna,
 
You changed your profile icon!!!
.Vrish. Viewbie
.Vrish.
.Vrish.

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Posted: 14 November 2011 at 6:42am | IP Logged
Uloopi didn't raise him in place of Chitrangada.  She just decided that since Arjun didn't love her, but did love Chitrangada, she just decided to spend her time w/ her, and helped her in raising Babruvahana.  I'm actually using the ACK here - something curious about it is that there is no mention of her raising Iravana as well, although one would think that that is implied, and that both Iravana & Babruvahana were raised in Manipur by Uloopi & Chitrangada.

After the battle b/w Arjun & Babruvahana, which the latter won, he was invited to attend the Ashwamedha yagna, and brought both Uloopi & Chitrangada along.  This time, when Babruvahana left Hastinapur after the yagna, Uloopi & Chitrangada stayed on in Hastinapur.  When the Pandavas finally decided to retire and leave their kingdom to Parikshit, the Pandava womenfolk other than Draupadi stayed on w/ him, but Chitrangada returned to Manipur to join Babruvahana, while Uloopi entered her watery kingdom.  It's unclear whether that means she drowned herself, or that she simply returned to the place where she originally met Arjun.  This was in sharp contrast to Krishna's womenfolk - a lot of whom committed agni-samadhi after Arjun took them to Indraprastha, or took vanvas.

One thing I've wondered - and I did mention it in some of the previous pages, but maybe Vibs, or you, or anyone else reading this can answer.  When the Pandavas went into exile, their wives (except Draupadi) went to their maayka kingdoms to raise their children.  However, when the Pandavas finally retired, then why didn't all their wives accompany them?  Devika, Paulomi, Valandhara, Hidimba, Subhadra, Uloopi, Chitrangada, Karenamati and Vijaya - they didn't have anything left, so why didn't they simply accompany their husbands and Draupadi, leaving Uttara w/ Parikshit?  (On Subhadra, I've seen 2 different accounts - one says that she stayed behind w/ Parikshit, Uttara and the other Pandava womenfolk, while another account says that after Arjun crowned Anirudha's son Vajra as the ruler of the Vrishnis, he left Subhadra as his regent/guardian.)  I know everybody's milages vary, but one would have thought that they'd have preferred to be w/ their husbands.
..RamKiJanaki.. IF-Stunnerz
..RamKiJanaki..
..RamKiJanaki..

Joined: 20 August 2008
Posts: 45685

Posted: 14 November 2011 at 7:08am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Uloopi didn't raise him in place of Chitrangada.  She just decided that since Arjun didn't love her, but did love Chitrangada, she just decided to spend her time w/ her, and helped her in raising Babruvahana.  I'm actually using the ACK here - something curious about it is that there is no mention of her raising Iravana as well, although one would think that that is implied, and that both Iravana & Babruvahana were raised in Manipur by Uloopi & Chitrangada.

After the battle b/w Arjun & Babruvahana, which the latter won, he was invited to attend the Ashwamedha yagna, and brought both Uloopi & Chitrangada along.  This time, when Babruvahana left Hastinapur after the yagna, Uloopi & Chitrangada stayed on in Hastinapur.  When the Pandavas finally decided to retire and leave their kingdom to Parikshit, the Pandava womenfolk other than Draupadi stayed on w/ him, but Chitrangada returned to Manipur to join Babruvahana, while Uloopi entered her watery kingdom.  It's unclear whether that means she drowned herself, or that she simply returned to the place where she originally met Arjun.  This was in sharp contrast to Krishna's womenfolk - a lot of whom committed agni-samadhi after Arjun took them to Indraprastha, or took vanvas.

One thing I've wondered - and I did mention it in some of the previous pages, but maybe Vibs, or you, or anyone else reading this can answer.  When the Pandavas went into exile, their wives (except Draupadi) went to their maayka kingdoms to raise their children.  However, when the Pandavas finally retired, then why didn't all their wives accompany them?  Devika, Paulomi, Valandhara, Hidimba, Subhadra, Uloopi, Chitrangada, Karenamati and Vijaya - they didn't have anything left, so why didn't they simply accompany their husbands and Draupadi, leaving Uttara w/ Parikshit?  (On Subhadra, I've seen 2 different accounts - one says that she stayed behind w/ Parikshit, Uttara and the other Pandava womenfolk, while another account says that after Arjun crowned Anirudha's son Vajra as the ruler of the Vrishnis, he left Subhadra as his regent/guardian.)  I know everybody's milages vary, but one would have thought that they'd have preferred to be w/ their husbands.
 
I remember that when reading a translation of the MB, Uloopi forced Arjun to marry him, so he never loved her as a reason of that? And Uloopi and Chitrangada came to live with the Pandavas after the MB war?
 
I guess Uloopi returning to her watery Kingdom meant she returned to her maayka, because she was a Naag Kanya and I don't think drowning herself was an option for suicide, since she technically couldn't drown?
 
I've also wondered about your question...why did only Draupadi accompany the Pandavas? I have a theory in mind which I don't know is correct or not, but I guess it wouldn't hurt sharing it with you all. The Pandavas are all said to be the incarnations of the Gods who fathered them...like Yudhisthira is an incarnation of Dharmaraj, Bhima an incarnation of Vayu Dev, etc, and Draupadi is said to be an incarnation of Kali Devi. Some say she was an incarnation of Sachi (the wife of Indra) while others say she's an incarnation of Lakshmi, though I don't really buy that since she would have married Krishna had she been Lakshmi, right? Anyway, more sources say Draupadi was an incarnation of Kali and that's why she was always filled with so much anger and thirst for revenge at the Kauravas, and if that's true, then the Pandavas' and Draupadi's yatra may have been equivalent to Shri Ram's Mahaprayaan...returning to their divine abode. However, Shri Ram did take Bharat and Shatrughan with him, as well as all the vanar sena minus Hanuman, Angad, and Jambavanth, so the Pandavas could have taken the rest of their womenfolk, but then again, the vanar sena were also all incanrations of Gods, so it makes sense for them to return to their divine abodes as well, and both Bharat and Shatrughan were parts of Vishnu himself, so they too could not have remained on Earth without Ram.
 
Being normal women, I guess the other womenfolk of the Pandavas remained behind because they had no divine abode to return to.
 
Sorry if this theory sounds silly, but that's what I've always thought.Embarrassed
.Vrish. Viewbie
.Vrish.
.Vrish.

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Posted: 14 November 2011 at 7:22am | IP Logged
That explanation sounds good, except that given that as married women, their place was with their husbands, it didn't really make sense that they didn't retire w/ them.  Most kings, when they handed over the thrones to their sons and retired to the forest e.g. Yayati, their wives went w/ them.  The Pandava wives too would have simply accompanied their husbands to their celestial abodes - it would be theirs as well by virtue of marriage, no?

You're right about Uloopi - Arjun didn't want to marry her, and just had a one night stand b4 moving on.  After being revived by Uloopi, when he heard her story of how he had been cursed, and how he had to be killed by Babruvahana and how she resurrected him, he started loving her.  Arjun was introduced to Iravana in the battlefield when Iravana joined the Pandavas, and developed an instant fondness for him.

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..RamKiJanaki.. IF-Stunnerz
..RamKiJanaki..
..RamKiJanaki..

Joined: 20 August 2008
Posts: 45685

Posted: 14 November 2011 at 7:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

That explanation sounds good, except that given that as married women, their place was with their husbands, it didn't really make sense that they didn't retire w/ them.  Most kings, when they handed over the thrones to their sons and retired to the forest e.g. Yayati, their wives went w/ them.  The Pandava wives too would have simply accompanied their husbands to their celestial abodes - it would be theirs as well by virtue of marriage, no?

You're right about Uloopi - Arjun didn't want to marry her, and just had a one night stand b4 moving on.  After being revived by Uloopi, when he heard her story of how he had been cursed, and how he had to be killed by Babruvahana and how she resurrected him, he started loving her.  Arjun was introduced to Iravana in the battlefield when Iravana joined the Pandavas, and developed an instant fondness for him.
 
So Arjun did not even know about Iravan till the battle? I guess Ulupi and Chitrangada shared the same bond as Draupadi and Subhadra, raising each other's children and all in their husband's absense.
 
Yeah, as married women the womenfolk could have returned to their husband's divine boade, but maybe they wanted to remain behind as support for Parikshit, though he would not have needed all of them.

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.Vrish.

Vibhishna Goldie
Vibhishna
Vibhishna

Joined: 08 January 2009
Posts: 1947

Posted: 15 November 2011 at 11:25am | IP Logged
varaali,

Thanks for the info. I knew something or someone was guarding the gem but didn't know who or what. I should have guessed, though. Almost all the stories involving snakes are the same.

I first tried registering as Vibhishan but it was not available so just interchanged the last two letters - like this spelling too. It gives a clue to those who observe. Wink

JanakiRaghunath,

I changed it - it had been the same for a long time. I really liked this picture which I have put up. Its a picture of Vibhishan meeting Ram for the first time.




Uloopi need not have revived everyone but it would be expected and thought of as partiality of the Pandavas. Too many questions and gossips would have risen and the whole point of the war would have gone to dust.

Probably, Duryodhan felt that staining Karna's son's honour was not appropriate now that he was the closest thing to a father to him. Also, I remember reading that Duryodhan did not approve of Aswathama killing the Pandavas' sons.

As for the womenfolk, I think they had a choice to live or die. Also, as long as they have a living heir to the family, the can stay or leave their husband's home. The others except Draupadi were used to living alone without the Pandavas. They probably felt that they needed to enjoy the peaceful times and spend some time with the family whom they never lived with - get used to their relatives - especially in the case of Chitrangada. She could have stayed to get to know her relatives better and forge a stronger bond (not just mere relation but a more deeper understanding and acceptance) with her relatives.

Uloopi went back to her world after the Pandavas left the kingdon relinquishing all the power to the next generation. The entrance to Nagaloka is beneath or in a water body - a lake or sea or something. Hence, for the snakes, entering the watery kingdom means that they went through the gate between the Earth and Nagaloka to reach their own world. Uloopi actually spirited Arjun away to Nagaloka the night he stayed with her.

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.Vrish. Viewbie
.Vrish.
.Vrish.

Joined: 25 October 2008
Posts: 21207

Posted: 16 November 2011 at 12:40am | IP Logged
Vibs

Duryodhan very much approved of what Ashwatthama did - see here, and we can discuss that aspect further in the Doubts & Discussions thread.  Given that even Kripacharya, the kulguru, resolved to join him in this heinous act, as well as Kritavarma, the hero of the Andhakas, it's very unlikely that Vrishaketu would have been exempt.  Incidentally, does Jamineya describe Vrishaketu's role in the war, if he fought?  Or is it just a 'he took part'?  Incidentally, Yuyutsu too took part and survived, but was not in the camp that Ashwatthama massacred.

Uloopi being partial to the Pandavas would have been naturual - she was (one of) their  wife.  Whole point of the war would have been fine had she resurrected all the sons of the Pandavas, barring maybe Ghatotkacha.

Your explanation about the decision of the womenfolk seems to explain their not accompanying their husbands on their final journey.


Edited by .Vrish. - 16 November 2011 at 12:41am
..RamKiJanaki.. IF-Stunnerz
..RamKiJanaki..
..RamKiJanaki..

Joined: 20 August 2008
Posts: 45685

Posted: 16 November 2011 at 8:51am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Vibhishna

varaali,

JanakiRaghunath,

I changed it - it had been the same for a long time. I really liked this picture which I have put up. Its a picture of Vibhishan meeting Ram for the first time.

The painting is beautiful. Do you have the original one? I'd love to use it in a sig. Btw, you don't have to refer to me as JanakiRaghunath...I'm Lalitha from RF. Don't you remember me?LOL
 
Thanks also for the explanation of why Ulupi could not have revived everyone, it makes sense.
 
Also, in the translation of the MB that I read, it said that Duryodhan did want the Pandavas to die and he was in full favor of Ashwathama's massacre at the Pandava camp, but he was saddened when he heard that it was the Pandavas' sons who died and not them. In this book, Duryodhan makes a speech about how Draupadi's sons are the heirs to the Kuru Vansh and now that they too are dead, the fate of the Kuru Vansh is dismal...he did not know that Uttara was carrying Abhimanyu's child, so he thought that with the death of Draupadi's sons, the Kuru Vansh would be gone after the Pandavas too left the Earth.


Edited by JanakiRaghunath - 16 November 2011 at 8:52am

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