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+* Pandava parivar *+ (Page 2)

Poll Question: Who is your favorite Pandava queen?

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varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 19 September 2011 at 12:49am | IP Logged
Thanks,once again,  Vrish.

I stand corrected on the issue of Pandavas' other wives being recognized as part of the Pandav family. From the relevant passage that you have quoted, it is clear that Nakula and Sahadeva's wives did live with them in Indrprastha. Thanks once again.

As regards Jalandhara, the serial that I mentioned was named "Draupadi" with Mrinal Kulkarni playing Draupadi's role. I have been trying for a long time to get hold of some you tube recordings, unfortunately no one seems to have uploaded them. But my info is not based on just the serial; I seem to have read in several other disjointed places of her being Bhima's wife. 

Regarding Babruvahan, he was adopted into his grandfather's family- hence he was technically not a Kuru or Pandav- as you please. I wonder what would have happened if Chitrangada had given birth to a daughter- would that daughter have ascended the throne in her own right?

But- sorry to nitpick - I am still not convinced by the order of Abhimanyu and Prativindya's births.
In the passage that you have quoted, first there is a long description of Abhimanyu's birth (in blue font). Then all that Vyasa says is that Draupadi also gave birth to five sons - one from each husband. Does it say anywhere that Prativindya was born later than Abhimanyu? Or - hold on-  is the order of description of their births also indicative of the chronological order? 

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Posted: 19 September 2011 at 1:14am | IP Logged
vaarali

It is unclear.  My initial reading was first Abhimanyu, then the others, but from the way it's written, Draupadi could well have given birth to Prativindya, and been pregnant w/ Satsoma @ the time Subhadra came to her.  The way the above is written doesn't rule that out.

That brings me to another question.  You may have heard of a story about how Arjun was narrating to Subhadra how to exit a chakravyuha, but it being pretty boring for a pregnant woman, she fell asleep, and Abhimanyu never got to learn it, w/ fatal consequences.  If that was there, shouldn't it have been there in the above cited section?  I checked out Abhimanyuvadh parva, but even that didn't have such a story.  So I wonder - where did it originate?

As for Chitrangada, her father had been raising her as a prince, and I think her tomboyish attributes might have been what attracted Arjun to her.  So had she given birth to a daughter, that daughter too might have been raised as a prince, but it would have been some burden on the dynasty.  Incidentally, after the Ashwamedha yagna, Chitrangada lived w/ Arjun in Hastinapur, but when the Pandavas decided to retire, she returned to Manipur, Uloopi returned to her watery kingdom in Nagaland, while the other Pandava wives remained w/ Parikshit.

That brings up another question.  During the vanvaas, I understand, the Pandava queens had to go to their maaykas and raise their sons to prepare for the war.  But at the end of it all, why did only Draupadi accompany the Pandavas in their journey to heaven?  Parikshit was 36 years old, so presumably old enough to rule.  So all the queens of the Pandavas - Devika, Hidimba, Uloopi, Chitrangada, Subhadra, Karenmati and Vijaya - all should have accompanied their husbands on that final journey, no?  Uttara could have been left in company of Parikshit.  (In the ACK, after Arjun enthroned Vajra, he left Subhadra w/ him to take care, but in the Mahabharata, it's mentioned that she and other queens stayed on w/ Parikshit.  In which case, even if all the Yadava queens had ended their lives, Vajra's mother - be it Rochana or Usha - should have stayed w/ him, no?)  Any idea why the Pandava queens chose/agreed to stay on w/ Parikshit?


Edited by _Vrish_ - 19 September 2011 at 1:26am

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varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 25 September 2011 at 6:05am | IP Logged
Originally posted by _Vrish_

vaarali

That brings me to another question.  You may have heard of a story about how Arjun was narrating to Subhadra how to exit a chakravyuha, but it being pretty boring for a pregnant woman, she fell asleep, and Abhimanyu never got to learn it, w/ fatal consequences.  If that was there, shouldn't it have been there in the above cited section?  I checked out Abhimanyuvadh parva, but even that didn't have such a story.  So I wonder - where did it originate?

Well, I didn't know it was not in the Mahabharata. Maybe it is like the Sudama eating Krishna's share of Poha during their Gurukul days- popular story with no authentic textual basis.

That brings up another question.  During the vanvaas, I understand, the Pandava queens had to go to their maaykas and raise their sons to prepare for the war. 

Draupadi didn't feel the need to go Panchala  to raise her sons. Anyway they (Draupadi's sons) spent the latter part of the 13 year period in Dwaraka. Moreover there is no record of Naramitra or Suhorta having taken part in the War.

But at the end of it all, why did only Draupadi accompany the Pandavas in their journey to heaven?  Parikshit was 36 years old, so presumably old enough to rule.  So all the queens of the Pandavas - Devika, Hidimba, Uloopi, Chitrangada, Subhadra, Karenmati and Vijaya - all should have accompanied their husbands on that final journey, no?  Uttara could have been left in company of Parikshit.  (In the ACK, after Arjun enthroned Vajra, he left Subhadra w/ him to take care, but in the Mahabharata, it's mentioned that she and other queens stayed on w/ Parikshit.  In which case, even if all the Yadava queens had ended their lives, Vajra's mother - be it Rochana or Usha - should have stayed w/ him, no?)  Any idea why the Pandava queens chose/agreed to stay on w/ Parikshit?

Maybe, it is the psychology? One needs a certain bend of mind to endure the hardships of vanvas
And why would Chitrangada choose to stay with Parikshit rather than Babruvahan's children?

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Posted: 27 September 2011 at 2:01pm | IP Logged
Okay, I have in front of me the book 'Who is who in the Mahabharata' by Subash Mazumdar, so I can fill in some of the things we discussed in the last few pages.

Jalandhara - Younger sister of Duryodhan's wife Bhanumati.  She was devoted to Bhima and used to call him King Vrikodara.  She once acted as an intermediary to arrange a meeting b/w Bhanumati & Krishna.

Meghasandhi - son of Jarasandha's son Sahadeva.  During preparations for king Yudhisthir's ashwamedha yagna, he challenged Arjuna who was following the royal forse.  In a short battle that ensued, Meghasandhi was defeated and he then agreed to atend Yudhisthir's yagna thus acknowledging the latter's superiority

As for the Yadavas during the Ashwamedha yagna, both Ugrasena & Vasudev prevented the Yadavas from capturing the horse

When the beautiful sacrificial horse of the Kuru king reached Dwaravati, the Yadava youths, used force against that foremost of steeds. King Ugrasena, however, soon went out and forbade those youths from doing what they meditated. Then the ruler of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas, issuing out of his palace, with Vasudeva, the maternal uncle of Arjuna, in his company, cheerfully met the Kuru hero and received him with due rites. The two elderly chiefs honoured Arjuna duly. Obtaining their permission, the Kuru prince then proceeded to where the horse he followed, led him.

On the vanvas question, you are right that Draupadi didn't feel the need to raise her children during her husbands' exile.  However, she was the exception, and I wasn't asking why the other wives didn't stay w/ the Pandavas.  In the Mahabharata, Dhrishtadyumna was reported as having taken her sons to Panchala, but in the book I cited, Rukmini was said to have helped Subhadra raise Abhimanyu and  Draupadi's sons.

My question, though was about the end, when the Pandavas retired.  In the case of Krishna, some of his widows self-immolated, while some others retired to the Himalayas to do tapasya.  In the case of the Pandava wives, they could have, like Draupadi, left w/ their husbands, who were on the journey to swargalok: yeah, they too would probably have died along the way, but wouldn't they have wanted to accompany their husbands?  Chitrangada returned to Manipur to live w/ Babruvahana, which certainly made more sense than living w/ Parikshit, while Uloopi went underwater - it's unclear whether she ended her life, or returned to her original watery kingdom in Nagaland. 

Nirmitra or Suhotra or Yaudheya - there is no record of them after the war, which suggests that they died during the war.  Had they lived, the least that would have happened would have been that the Pandavas would have made them ministers or guardians of Parikshit when they retired, instead of leaving him to Yuyutsu.  All evidence suggests that except for Babruvahana, there were no living sons of the Pandavas.

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varaali

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Posted: 11 October 2011 at 3:44am | IP Logged
The Ashwamedhika Parva of Jaimineya Mahabharata has some  interesting details. 

Ghatotghach's son Meghavarna has apparently survived the war and there is lot of Grandad- Granson bonding while they go to fetch the sacrificial horse. Bonding, in this sense of course means, battles (with others- not b/w themselves!)

Plus, why wasn't  Vrishketu (or was it Vrishsena?- the son of Karna who survived) considered for succession? Because  he wasn't a part of the Kuru/Pandav lineage? He was certainly treated most affectionately by the Pandavas.

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Posted: 11 October 2011 at 11:36am | IP Logged
Vaarali

Are these in the KMG version, or some other?  I'm very happy to learn that the Pandavas did have sons who survived - I'd be happy to know that Nirmitra, Suhotra and other sons of the Pandavas did survive.  Vrishasena was the eldest of Karna's sons, and was killed by Arjun b4 Arjun-Karna's final battle.  So Vrishaketu must be the name of the son who survived.  It's nice that he was accepted by the Pandavas into the family.  Are there any online links where I can read more about it?

The more I think about it, I think that Yudhisthir decided that the succession would be the result of the matrimonial alliance b/w the Pandavas and the Vrishnis.  So had Abhimanyu survived, he'd have been yuvraj even instead of Bhima, and succeeded the throne.  Since Parikshit was just born, Bhima was made the yuvraj of Yudhisthir (just like Bharat was yuvraj of Rama) and held that post until the Pandavas retired.  Then, just like Kush succeeded Rama, Parikshit succeeded Yudhisthir.  That would explain why Yudhisthir didn't make any of his other sons/nephews his successors, but probably just entrusted them w/ ministerial duties, like he did Yuyutsu.

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varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 11 October 2011 at 10:47pm | IP Logged
The text that I am referring to is Jaimineya Mahabharata (Ashvamedhika Parva). 

As you would be knowing, Jaimini was one of the foremost of Veda Vyasa's disciples (Shukha, Vaisampayana Paila and Sumantu being others). The story goes that, after narrating the entire Mahabharata to these five, he asked them to write it in their own words. No one even dared to try to match their illustrious Guru's literary powers.  Except for Jamini. For him, disregarding his Guru's command was a greater sin- hence he started in  all earnest to re write the MB in his own words. So deep was his revernce to his guru that when he presented the finished product to Veda Vyasa, the Master claimed that Jamini's version was even better than the original.

Most of Jamineya Mahabharata (which was bigger and more detailed) has been lost except for the Ashwamedhika Parva. Why his work was lost while the original (Vyasa Mahabharata) survived is not clear. 

Also, like any other major text, this too has not been free form interpolations by later authors calling themselves Jaimini. 

I only have the hard copy of this text (published by Gita Press, Gorakhpur). I am not sure if the entire version is available online. 

Some interesting information is given here



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varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 11 October 2011 at 11:04pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Vaarali

 I'm very happy to learn that the Pandavas did have sons who survived - I'd be happy to know that Nirmitra, Suhotra and other sons of the Pandavas did survive.  

Bhima's  grandson  Meghavarna survived. As Ghatotghach's son, he shares a special rapport with his grandfather.

No mention is made of any other sons. No record of their death. It is indeed puzzling. If Nirmitra, Yaudheya and Suhorta had taken part and been killed in the War, there names would have mentioned, even in passing. It is as if they just slipped into oblivion.

Vrishasena was the eldest of Karna's sons, and was killed by Arjun b4 Arjun-Karna's final battle.  So Vrishaketu must be the name of the son who survived.  It's nice that he was accepted by the Pandavas into the family.  Are there any online links where I can read more about it?

Yes indeed, the name given in Jaimineya MB is Vrishketu. He accompanies Bhima and Meghavarna on their expedition to secure the sacrifcial horse. He was treated most tenderly by his uncles, especially Bhima and Arjuna




Edited by varaali - 11 October 2011 at 11:22pm

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