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+* Pandava parivar *+ (Page 16)

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Page 16 of 17

Vibhishna

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Vibhishna

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Posted: 21 May 2012 at 11:18am | IP Logged
I had read a slightly different version.

Bhumi Devi cursed Karna for causing her excruciating pain for the sake of a child (or a few drops of ghee) when Karna squeezed the Earth.


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Posted: 04 July 2012 at 2:12pm | IP Logged
New question on Ghatotkacha - as is well known, Krishna used him to use up Karna's Shakti, so that Karna couldn't use it against Arjun.  Thereby necessitating his sacrifice.

But looking @ this from the enemy point of view, how was that the only weapon that could kill him?  Earlier that night, Ashwatthama killed Ghatotkacha's son Anjanparva, and Ghatotkacha fell upon him vowing revenge.  He was however unable to defeat or kill Ashwatthama.

Now, as is known from the way the war went later, Ashwatthama had 2 ultimate weapons.  One was the Narayan-astra, which he used following his father's death (this was actually one of the few things shown well & accurately in RS-SK), while the second was the Brahmashira, which he tried to use against the Pandavas, and then diverted against Uttara.

Now, either of these could have killed Ghatotkacha.  Of course, in the case of the Narayan Astra, Krishna could have had him and everyone else surrender to the weapon, and thus save himself to still be available for the Shakti.  But the Brahmashira - Ghatotkacha would have been killed by that as well, and had Arjun used his own Brahmashira against that, the end result would have been that he'd have been forced to recall it (like he was later), and Ashwatthama would still have been free to divert it towards Ghatotkacha.

So how did the Kaurava strategists miss this seemingly obvious way of getting rid of Ghatotkacha w/o crippling Karna's ability to slay Arjun?

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ShivangBuchvaraali

ShivangBuch

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Posted: 06 July 2012 at 8:25am | IP Logged
Probably because Ashwatthama was aware at that time about the rules of using that weapon and its possible consequences. So he was never going to use it if its use was at the wrong time looking at its side effects. But he eventually used it for personal revenge when he lost all his senses and was fighting as if fighting his final battle without any morality.

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Posted: 06 July 2012 at 9:19am | IP Logged
But it was okay to use either of those 2 weapons when one was oneself in mortal danger - in case of the Brahmashira, that was precisely what Arjun did (I'd have to re-read whether Krishna urged him to do it, or whether Arjun did it on his own).  And when Ghatotkacha was threatening everybody, the Kauravas were desperate, and that's why Karna used the Shakti - much against his better judgement.  My point here - if the Kauravas were desperate, Ashwatthama too could have slain Ghatotkacha w/ either of those 2 weapons (more likely the Brahmashira), and Karna would still have been free to threaten Arjun.

Reason I ask this question is that @ the helm of the Kaurava army were Drona, Kripa, Karna, Ashwatthama and Kritavarma, and none of them thought about this?  Particularly Ashwatthama, who knew what he had, and at that time, since his father was still alive and he didn't have any open grudges against the Panchalas or the Pandavas, he, unlike Karna, wasn't saving those weapons for any reason.  So he could have just gone ahead & killed Ghatotkacha w/ one of them, and Krishna would have had to come up w/ another way of saving Arjun - maybe putting himself in the way, just like he did w/ Bhagadatta's Vaishnav astra.  Incidentally, I'm assuming that the Shakti was not capable of killing Krishna - is that a fair assumption?

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Posted: 06 July 2012 at 10:44am | IP Logged
Did Drona not have the weapon which Ashwatthama possessed?

Is the threat of an enemy of destroying your army and defeating you is personal danger to your life at that very moment? Even before the enemy attempting a killing blow or something the defense of which is Brahmashira as that very precise action?


Edited by ShivangBuch - 06 July 2012 at 11:27am

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Posted: 06 July 2012 at 10:53am | IP Logged
That's the thing - Drona too could have used that weapon.  In fact, the next day, he went on to use divyastras against ordinary Pandava soldiers, which is what bothered Krishna, so he gave Yudhisthir the idea of lying to him and causing his death that way.  So it's not like Drona himself was very restrained.

These weapons were allowed to be used when one and one's army was in mortal danger and facing annihilation, which was what Ghatotkacha was doing, so that the Kauravas didn't have the choice of not killing him.

Did Ghatotkacha have to actually threaten Drona or Ashwatthama themselves for him to become their legitimate target?  They could have intervened on Karna's behalf - that was not against the rules.  Just look at the umpty times Satyaki, for instance, saved Dhrishtadyumna from certain death.  Or Arjun saving Nakul from Karna's son Vrishasena by intervening and killing him.

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Posted: 06 July 2012 at 11:33am | IP Logged
Hmmm. Then the primary question also becomes why did Drona not use that weapon. Possibly he wanted Arjun at personal selfish level as his hidden desire not to be defeated at the hands of Karna. Then next comes Ashwatthama. Which particular divyastras did Drona use on ordinary soldiers? Isn't the Brahmashiraastra one of the ultimates when nothing else works looking at its wide damage?

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Posted: 06 July 2012 at 12:32pm | IP Logged

http://www.mahabharataonline.com/translation/mahabharata_07187.php

 That elephant named Aswatthaman having been thus slain, Bhima spoke of Aswatthaman's slaughter. Keeping the true fact within his mind, he said what was untrue, Hearing those highly disagreeable words of Bhima and reflecting upon them, Drona's limbs seemed to dissolve like sands in water. Recollecting however, the prowess of his son, he soon came to regard that intelligence as false. Hearing, therefore, of his slaughter, Drona did not become unmanned. Indeed, soon recovering his senses, he became comforted, remembering that his son was incapable of being resisted by foes. Rushing towards the son of Prishata, and desirous of slaying that hero who had been ordained as his slayer, he covered him with a thousand keen shafts, equipped with kanka feathers. Then twenty thousand Panchala car-warriors of great energy covered him, while he was thus careering in battle, with their shafts. Completely shrouded with those shafts, we could not any longer see that great car-warrior who then resembled, O monarch, the sun, covered with clouds in the season of rains. Filled with wrath and desirous of compassing the destruction of those brave Panchalas, that mighty car-warrior, that scorcher of foes, viz., Drona, dispelling all those shafts of the Panchalas, then invoked into existence the Brahmastra. At that time, Drona looked resplendent like a smokeless, blazing fire. Once more filled with rage the valiant son of Bharadwaja slaughtering all the Somakas, seemed to be invested with great splendour. In that dreadful battle, he felled the heads of the Panchalas and cut off their massive arms, looking like spiked maces and decked with golden ornaments. Indeed, those Kshatriyas, slaughtered in battle by Bharadwaja's son fell down on the earth and lay scattered like trees uprooted by the tempest. In consequence of fallen elephants and steeds, O Bharata, the earth, miry with flesh and blood, became impassable. Having slain twenty thousand Panchala car-warriors, Drona, in that battle, shone resplendent like a smokeless, blazing fire. Once more filled with rage, the valiant son of Bharadwaja cut off, with a broad-headed arrow, the head of Vasudana from his trunk. Once more slaying five hundred Matsyas, and six thousand elephants, he slew ten thousand steeds. Beholding Drona stationed on the field for the extermination of the Kshatriya race, the Rishis Viswamitra, and Jamadagni, and Bharadwaja, and Gautama, and Vasishtha, and Kasyapa, and Atri, and the Srikatas, the Prisnis, Garga, the Valkhilyas, the Marichis, the descendants of Bhrigu and Angiras, and diverse other sages of subtle forms quickly came thither, with the Bearer of sacrificial libations at their head, and, desirous of taking Drona unto the region of Brahman, addressed Drona, that ornament of battle, and said, 'Thou art fighting unrighteously. The hour of thy death is come. Laying aside thy weapons in battle, O Drona, behold us stationed here. After this, it behoveth thee not to perpetrate such exceedingly cruel deeds. Thou art versed in the Vedas and their branches. Thou art devoted to the duties enjoined by truth, especially, thou art a Brahmana. Such acts do not become thee. Lay aside thy weapons. Drive away the film of error that shrouds thee. Adhere now to the eternal path. The period for which thou art to dwell in the world of men is now full. Thou hast, with the Brahma weapon, burnt men on earth that are unacquainted with weapons. This act that thou hast perpetrated, O regenerate one, is not righteous. Lay aside thy weapons in battle without delay, O Drona, do not wait longer on earth. Do not, O regenerate one, perpetrate such a sinful act.' Hearing these words of their as also those spoken by Bhimasena, and beholding Dhrishtadyumna before him, Drona became exceedingly cheerless in battle

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