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+* Pandava parivar *+ (Page 13)

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Page 13 of 17

varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 16 May 2012 at 2:28am | IP Logged
Vrish,

Couldn't you find any references in the Mahabharata, especially where Kunti's  swayamvar / marriage  is described? 

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Vibhishna

Goldie

Vibhishna

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Posted: 16 May 2012 at 2:40am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Vibs

Uttanka would be the same guy who met Krishna after the Ashwamedha yagna and reprimanded him, right?



Sorry, I never saw this thread after it was shifted here.

I think it is the same person though I get confused often if it is Uttanka or Uddhava who meets Krishna after the sacrifice...

Vibhishna

Goldie

Vibhishna

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Posted: 16 May 2012 at 2:44am | IP Logged
On the other two questions, I'll get back after checking my books and resources. 

.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 16 May 2012 at 5:19am | IP Logged
Varaali

This is the page in Sambhava Parva that deals w/ Kunti and the birth of Karna, and later her marriage to Pandu.  As you can see, no mention about the name of her maayka kingdom, or where it was located.

varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 16 May 2012 at 7:11am | IP Logged
The river in which Kunti set afloat her new born son is supposed to be the Ashwa river. Now I can see that it is not mentioned in the MB, and I cannot remember where I read it first.  

.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 16 May 2012 at 7:53am | IP Logged
Anyway, any recollections of where this kingdom was located?

Thinking logically about it:

Karna was set afloat in a basket on the river Ashwa, and set sail for probably a few hours, until he was found by Adhirath/Radha, who took him home and raised him as their own.  He grew up there, and the next time he surfaced was in Hastinapur itself, during that contest.

So for him to have surfaced there, Adhirath and Radha would probably have had to live near, if not in Hastinapur.  If he was set afloat on a basket, then Kunti's kingdom would have had to be further upstream the Ganga, since Hastinapur, unlike Indraprastha, is located on the banks of the Ganga.  So at least, at that time of Karna's birth, Kuntibhoj might have been based there.

In the Wiki article I read, it mentioned that when Jarasandha overran most of the northern country, a number of rulers, including Kuntibhoj, fled south, and that Kuntibhoj's kingdom - named Kunti - was near Avanti.  However, it seems unlikely that if Karna was born near Avanti, he'd be in any position to turn up in, of all places, Hastinapur, and confront the family of his birth mother.  Would seem too monstrous a coincidence.

The other thing that made me curious - if Jarasandha overran and drove away a lot of rulers, who were probably allied w/ Ugrasena, how did kingdoms like Hastinapur, Madra, Gandhara et al withstand his onslaught?  Or was Hastinapur under Dhritarashtra on friendly terms w/ him.  (I know that in RS-SK, Dhritarashtra declined Ugrasena's appeal for help b4 Krishna moved things to Dwarka, but I'm assuming that that's just one more of Sagars' many inventions).

Anyway, anybody who knows where Kuntibhoj's kingdom was located, please weigh in.


Edited by .Vrish. - 16 May 2012 at 1:58pm

Vibhishna

Goldie

Vibhishna

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Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:48pm | IP Logged
I was researching on the river Aswa (as varaali had mentioned that this was the river Karna was let float in) and its path hoping to find the location of Kunti Bhoja's kingdom.

This is what I've been able to gather. I have pieced together the info I got from various sites. 

The river Aswa or Aswanadi was known as Pushpawati earlier and is currently known as Pahuj. It joins the Chambal River (known as Charmanvati in the earlier ages) which in turn flows into the river Sind and then to Yamuna, finally joining the Ganga.

Charmanvati River was the southern border of the Panchala Kingdom.

Kunti Bhoja is supposed to be Surasena's brother. Krishna refers to Kunti as Aunt and the stories say Kunti Bhoja adopted on of his brother's daughters as his own. I don't know if Surasena was Kunti Bhoja's own brother or cousin. It could be that their forefathers were brothers and the kingdom got divided between them. Otherwise, I didn't understand why one was called Bhoja and the other a Vrishni Yadhava (Krishna is addressed as Varshneya by Arjuna but could refer to the descendents of Vrishni in general). Probably we have to trace them back to Yadu's sons.

This opens a new set of doubts for me - if Vasudeva was Kunti Bhoja's bother, why didn't he come to Vasudeva's rescue when Kamsa imprisoned his brother and his wife. Probably Kamsa's prowess kept him at bay, still... The epics do portray Kunti Bhoja in a cowardly fashion. Sending his daughter to Rishi Durvasa instead of meeting the sage himself.

Let's get back to the Kunti Kingdom.


What I meant to say is that Surasena's and Ugrasena's Kingdom should have been near Kamanti Bhojpur. Since the Charmanvati river flowed into Avanti Kingdom as well, Avanti should have been a neighbour too.


So, that puts the kingdom somewhere in Madhya Pradesh - Rajasthan Border region. I hope I got the place right.


Some sites refer to the capital city of Kunthi Bhoja's kingdom as Kamanti Bhojpur. Kunti Bhoja and his family must have lived here. Some stories say Sage Durvasa came to Kunti Bhoja's palace and Kunti served him in the palace. Some other stories say, Sage Durvasa came to perform Puja in a shrine in Kamanti Bhojpur. There must have been a Shrine (Lord Shiva's, probably) where Sage Durvasa offered prayers and Kunti served him. Karna must have been born in this place or the surrounding forests. No idea if a shrine still exists in this place. If it does, it must be a very old temple or it could be in ruins.


Archaeological findings in Kutwar, (Morena Dist., M.P., 25 km, North of Gwalior) found around 1996 A.D.,  considered to be ancient India's Kamanti Bhojpur, has been dated around 5th or 6th Century B.C.

Karna could have been found by Adiratha and Radha somewhere downstream of Pahuj River. I don't know where exactly he grew up. It is possible that he could have heard of the competition and traveled from his home to Hastinapur. It was common to travel long distances to participate in competitions and celebrations those days.

It is also said that this place was one of the capitals of Nagas (Capitals? I think it could have been one of the gateways to the Nagas' Abode). Also, in the Mahabharat, when Bheema was poisoned and thrown into a river, he was taken away to the Naga Kingdom where he met Vasuki and his maternal grandfather Aryaka ( again, I have to research further as to how Aryaka was Bheema's grandfather - from Kunti's side).


That is all I could fathom. I haven't been to the North except for trip or two. Hence, the places are still unkown to me. I could only suggest the location based on the maps available.

I think I put forth more questions than answers this time... Embarrassed


Edited by Vibhishna - 18 May 2012 at 8:34am

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.Vrish.

Vibhishna

Goldie

Vibhishna

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Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:54pm | IP Logged

I read some stories that Kunti chose Pandu as her husband in a Swayamvara. It is possible as she was praised as a lady of good virtues and had served Sage Durvasa and was blessed by him. So. Kunti Bhoja could have held a Swyamvar for his foster daughter. It was also said that Pandu left for war on his wedding night itself and was very victorious in his conquests. On the way back home (Hastinapur, I think), Pandu married Madri, Shalya's sister. He was apprehensive of what Kunti might say and tried to introduce her in a diplomatic way.I don't know where this information comes from and I don't understand why he was apprehensive. The royal women were used to the men marrying more than one woman. Some stories say that Kunti was upset in the beginning but she and Madri got along really well later on.

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.Vrish.

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