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+* Pandava parivar *+ (Page 10)

Poll Question: Who is your favorite Pandava queen?

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Vibhishna Goldie
Vibhishna
Vibhishna

Joined: 08 January 2009
Posts: 1947

Posted: 16 November 2011 at 10:03am | IP Logged
Apologies Lalitha - I remember you but I usually use the person's username while I address them. See, I use Vrish here - he used to be someone else before.

Here's the picture. It does not belong to me - I got it from wikipedia.

...

I too read the same thing - Duryodhan was all for killing the Pandavas but when he heard it was their sons who were killed, he was anguished. He even cursed Aswathama for doing such a deed if I'm right. When I first read that I was frankly shocked. At first I thought it was a dying man's remorse but then realised that Duryodhan's jealousy was limited to the Pandavas - courtesy Shakuni. But before he developed the hatred towards the Pandavas, he and his brothers were on good terms with the Pandavas. It was Shakuni who slowly turned Duryodhan and his brothers against the 5. This is what I read.



Vrish,

If Uloopi had resurrected the sons of the Pandavas, then Ghatotkacha too must be given the chance. Arjun would never accept it if Ghatotkacha remains dead when he was sacrificed for his sake. Also, they would want to resurrect Karna and Karna would not live till Duryodhan is resurrected - the whole cycle will continue again - the whole point of the war would be crushed.


Edited by Vibhishna - 22 May 2012 at 11:47am

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zorrro.Vrish.

.Vrish. Viewbie
.Vrish.
.Vrish.

Joined: 25 October 2008
Posts: 21192

Posted: 08 February 2012 at 1:10pm | IP Logged
Yes. Those were 12 years clear as per rules agreed by Pandavas at the time of marriage with Draupadi. Arjun had to stay in the forest as Brahmachari during those 12 years (even though he married thrice during that period that's the interesting part of it). He stayed in Manipur with Chitrangadaa for 3 years. In fact towards the end of his forest stay, before going to Dwarika, he once again went to Manipur to see his son Babhruvaahan grown up and met him and crowned him then & there.  

 This is the text when the rule was laid down between Pandavas after marriage with Draupadi:

The illustrious Pandavas, thus addressed by the great Rishi Narada, consulting with one another, established a rule amongst themselves in the presence of the celestial Rishi himself endued with immeasurable energy. And the rule they made was that when one of them would be sitting with Draupadi, any of the other four who would see that one thus must retire into the forest for twelve years, passing his days as brahmacharin. 


The Brahmachari condition seems strange, since Arjun did anything but follow that.  This is part of where I have problems following Vyasa (I never noticed such a thing w/ Valmiki in the Ramayan).  Unlike the exile of the Pandavas by the Kauravas, which was done out of malice, this one didn't have any, and indeed, Yudhisthir agreed that the circumstances under which Arjun had to violate their privacy was for the greater good of his subjects.  Which is why Arjun just had to leave Indraprastha, but was @ liberty to live anywhere else - Dwarka, Naga desh, Manipur and so on.

I think that Vyasa may have gotten the terms wrong LOL - I can't imagine Arjun violating the terms of the agreement, particularly when he insisted on going thru w/ the penance.



Edited by .Vrish. - 08 February 2012 at 1:29pm
varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

Joined: 17 July 2006
Posts: 2806

Posted: 08 February 2012 at 10:55pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Yes. Those were 12 years clear as per rules agreed by Pandavas at the time of marriage with Draupadi. Arjun had to stay in the forest as Brahmachari during those 12 years (even though he married thrice during that period that's the interesting part of it). He stayed in Manipur with Chitrangadaa for 3 years. In fact towards the end of his forest stay, before going to Dwarika, he once again went to Manipur to see his son Babhruvaahan grown up and met him and crowned him then & there.  

 This is the text when the rule was laid down between Pandavas after marriage with Draupadi:

The illustrious Pandavas, thus addressed by the great Rishi Narada, consulting with one another, established a rule amongst themselves in the presence of the celestial Rishi himself endued with immeasurable energy. And the rule they made was that when one of them would be sitting with Draupadi, any of the other four who would see that one thus must retire into the forest for twelve years, passing his days as brahmacharin. 


The Brahmachari condition seems strange, since Arjun did anything but follow that.  This is part of where I have problems following Vyasa (I never noticed such a thing w/ Valmiki in the Ramayan).  Unlike the exile of the Pandavas by the Kauravas, which was done out of malice, this one didn't have any, and indeed, Yudhisthir agreed that the circumstances under which Arjun had to violate their privacy was for the greater good of his subjects.  Which is why Arjun just had to leave Indraprastha, but was @ liberty to live anywhere else - Dwarka, Naga desh, Manipur and so on.

I think that Vyasa may have gotten the terms wrong LOL - I can't imagine Arjun violating the terms of the agreement, particularly when he insisted on going thru w/ the penance.


If indeed Arjun did stay away from Indraprastha for 12 years, how was Srutakarma (Arjuna's son thru Draupadi) born? After his return to Indraparasta? That would have made him way younger than his half- brothers. Moreover Arjuna brought Subhadra to Indraprastha where Abhimanyu was born.

So I think the term period of exile should have been 12 months- implying that  the brother violating another brother's privacy forgoes his turn with Draupadi. (Gosh I hope there are no kids reading this Blushing)

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nikki1291.Vrish.

varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

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Posted: 08 February 2012 at 11:04pm | IP Logged
[QUOTE=.Vrish.]
 - I can't imagine Arjun violating the terms of the agreement, particularly when he insisted on going thru w/ the penance.

Vyasa's more likely to have got the number of years wrong. As for Arjuna insisting of going ahead with the punishment- well, if you look from his POV, it must have been pretty galling for him to have to wait for another year, before he could be with Draupadi. Remember, Draupadi was Yudi's wife at that time, (when Arjuna barged into their room); she would have to complete another year with Bhima before she could come to him. So what does the Gandhiva- Dhari do? Go on a 'pilgrimage' where he gets himself three more wives (and three more sons) before the year runs out. Embarrassed 

The brahmachari aspect was adhered to most scruplously during their 13 year exile. (Krishna mentions this during his peace  mission. 

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.Vrish.

varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

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Posted: 08 February 2012 at 11:07pm | IP Logged
[QUOTE=.Vrish.]
Yes. Those were 12 years clear as per rules agreed by Pandavas at the time of marriage with Draupadi. Arjun had to stay in the forest as Brahmachari during those 12 years (even though he married thrice during that period that's the interesting part of it). He stayed in Manipur with Chitrangadaa for 3 years. In fact towards the end of his forest stay, before going to Dwarika, he once again went to Manipur to see his son Babhruvaahan grown up and met him and crowned him then & there.  



I find it hard to believe that he went upto Manipur and met Babruvahan but didn't get to meet Iravan. We know for a fact that the first time Arjun met his son Iravan was on the eve of the Mahabharata War

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.Vrish.

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.Vrish.
.Vrish.

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Posted: 09 February 2012 at 9:40am | IP Logged
I agree w/ Varaali above.  From what I understand, Arjun left Babruvahana when he was a year old in Chitrangada's care, and when her father died, Babruvahana became king.  Arjun wasn't around to witness his coronation.

Another thought struck my mind.  In the Mahabharata, most of the major warriors had accomplished Gurus.  Bheeshma, Drona and Karna had Parashurama, Arjun, Ashwatthama and the rest of the Pandavas and the Kauravas had Drona/Kripa, many of the other rulers had Drona, Duryodhan & Bhima had Balarama, Satyaki and Pradhyumna had Arjun, while Abhimanyu had Krishna.

However, Babruvahana didn't seem to have any guru as such, just Uloopi as an inspiration.  Yet, in battle, he fought and slew Arjun, which would seemingly make him the most supreme warrior of all - greater than Arjun as well as Abhimanyu, Satyaki, Drona, Ashwatthama and so on.  Somehow, his example, if used, would seem to suggest that a great guru is not necessary to excel in one's field.
ShivangBuch Goldie
ShivangBuch
ShivangBuch

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Posted: 13 February 2012 at 5:30am | IP Logged
There seems to be special significance in Mahabharat of 12 years that is evident from the condition put forward in Dhyut. One can say that under special circumstances 12 days can be treated to be equal to 12 years as shown in BRC MB and Yudhishthir was willing to do that in this Arjun's case because it was a special case and intention was noble. However 12 years is not just mentioned once in that translated text but at quite a few places of Arjun's journey. Arjun's 3 years stay at Manipur is also mentioned and his visit of Manipur twice in 12 years with the gap in between is also clear in that text. Sorry if the following texts have already been posted on earlier pages of this thread.

Partha at last approached Yudhishthira, and addressing him, said, 'Give me leave, O lord, to observe the vow I took. In beholding thee sitting with Draupadi, I have violated the rule established by ourselves. I shall therefore go into the woods, for this is even our understanding.' Then Yudhishthira, suddenly hearing those painful words, became afflicted with grief, and said in an agitated voice, 'Why!' A little while after, king Yudhishthira in grief said unto his brother Dhananjaya of curly hair who never departed from his vows, these words, 'O sinless one, if I am an authority worthy of regard, listen to what I say. O hero, full well do I know the reason why thou hadst entered my chamber and didst what thou regardest to be an act disagreeable to me. But there is no displeasure in my mind. The younger brother may, without fault, enter the chamber where the elder brother sitteth with his wife. It is only the elder brother that acts against the rules of propriety by entering the room where the younger brother sitteth with his wife. Therefore, O thou of mighty arms, desist from thy purpose. Do what I say. Thy virtue hath sustained no diminution. Thou hast not disregarded me.'

 

"Arjuna, hearing this, replied, 'I have heard, even from thee, that quibbling is not permitted in the discharge of duty. I cannot waver from truth. Truth is my weapon.'

 

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Obtaining then the king's permission, Arjuna prepared himself for a forest-life; and he went to the forest to live there for twelve years.



Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 February 2012 at 6:05am

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.Vrish.varaali

ShivangBuch Goldie
ShivangBuch
ShivangBuch

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Posted: 13 February 2012 at 5:35am | IP Logged

One day that bull amongst the Pandavas, while residing in that region in the midst of those Brahmanas, descended (as usual) into the Ganges to perform his ablutions. After his ablutions had been over, and after he had offered oblations of water unto his deceased ancestors, he was about to get up from the stream to perform his sacrificial rites before the fire, when the mighty-armed hero, O king, was dragged into the bottom of the water by Ulupi, the daughter of the king of the Nagas, urged by the god of desire. And it so happened that the son of Pandu was carried into the beautiful mansion of Kauravya, the king of the Nagas. Arjuna saw there a sacrificial fire ignited for himself. Beholding that fire, Dhananjaya, the son of Kunti performed his sacrificial rites with devotion. And Agni was much gratified with Arjuna for the fearlessness with which that hero had poured libations into his manifest form. After he had thus performed his rites before the fire, the son of Kunti, beholding the daughter of the king of the Nagas, addressed her smilingly and said, 'O handsome girl, what an act of rashness hast thou done. O timid one! Whose is this beautiful region, who art thou and whose daughter?'

 

"Hearing these words of Arjuna, Ulupi answered, 'There is a Naga of the name of Kauravya, born in the line of Airavata. I am, O prince, the daughter of that Kauravya, and my name is Ulupi. O tiger among men, beholding thee descend into the stream to perform thy ablutions, I was deprived of reason by the god of desire. O sinless one, I am still unmarried. Afflicted as I am by the god of desire on account of thee, O thou of Kuru's race, gratify me today by giving thyself up to me.'

 

"Arjuna replied, 'Commanded by king Yudhishthira, O amiable one, I am undergoing the vow of Brahmacharin for twelve years. I am not free to act in any way I like. But, O ranger of the waters, I am still willing to do thy pleasure (if I can). I have never spoken an untruth in my life. Tell me, therefore, O Naga maid, how I may act so that, while doing thy pleasure, I may not be guilty of any untruth or breach of duty.'

 

"Ulupi answered, 'I know, O son of Pandu, why thou wanderest over the earth, and why thou hast been commanded to lead the life of a Brahmacharin by the superior. Even this was the understanding to which all of you had been pledged, viz., that amongst you all owning Drupada's daughter as your common wife, he who would from ignorance enter the room where one of you would be sitting with her, should lead the life of a Brahmacharin in the woods for twelve years. The exile of any one amongst you, therefore, is only for the sake of Draupadi. Thou art but observing the duty arising from that vow. Thy virtue cannot sustain any diminution (by acceding to my solicitation). Then again, O thou of large eyes, it is a duty to relieve the distressed. Thy virtue suffereth no diminution by relieving me. Oh, if (by this act), O Arjuna, thy virtue doth suffer a small diminution, thou wilt acquire great merit by saving my life. Know me for thy worshipper, O Partha! Therefore, yield thyself up to me! Even this, O lord, is the opinion of the wise (viz., that one should accept a woman that wooeth). If thou do not act in this way, know that I will destroy myself. O thou of mighty arms, earn great merit by saving my life. I seek thy shelter, O best of men! Thou protectest always, O son of Kunti, the afflicted and the masterless. I seek thy protection, weeping in sorrow. I woo thee, being filled with desire. Therefore, do what is agreeable to me. It behoveth thee to gratify my wish by yielding thy self up to me.'

 

"Vaisampayana said, 'Thus addressed by the daughter of the king of the Nagas, the son of Kunti did everything she desired, making virtue his motive. The mighty Arjuna, spending the night in the mansion of the Naga rose with the sun in the morning. Accompanied by Ulupi he came back from the palace of Kauravya to the region where the Ganges entereth the plains. The chaste Ulupi, taking her leave there, returned to her own abode. And, O Bharata, she granted unto Arjuna a boon making him invincible in water, saying, 'Every amphibious creature shall, without doubt, be vanquishable by thee.'"


Interesting is the comparison between Arjun-Ulupi's case and Ram-Shoorpankha's case.Big smileShockedConfused And also in the next two cases falling within 12 years, i.e. Chitrangada and Subhadra, Arjun had no duty or compulsion Confused (Of course I can also post Subhadra part summary in brief - Arjun's desire vs Krishna's wish or order or suggestion - relative proportion of both in the final decision and action).



Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 February 2012 at 6:02am

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.Vrish.varaali

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